Taco to 4runner

[4x4pilgrim]

All,

I've searched for commentaries and found a few, but I'm most interested in current feelings as I'm looking at a new 2015 4Runner. If I may provide a little background, I'm hoping ya'll can help me make a good decision:

I currently own a 2014 Taco 4D TRD Offroad. To purchase it, I traded in a 3rd gen 4runner. The 4runner was a 3rd gen 2wd bought used, my first Toyota. The 4runner was a daily driver and a cross-country traveler and was exceptional, both on the highway and on some trails marked "4wd only". However, I decided I couldn't live without the 4wd after hanging out in Moab for a few days and especially once I moved to CO. The TRD Offroad Taco is fantastic to explore the trails in CO and a good DD, but I just found out that I've got a baby on the way. A quick look at safety ratings, and thinking about fitting a dog and kid in the same back seat, have got me thinking about trading in for a new 2015 4runner with the trail package. I've got a few questions, if ya'll would be so kind...

1- Resale: The taco's resale is awesome. I don't lose money selling it. Is the same true with a 4runner Trail/Trail Premium?
2- What exactly is the difference between a Trail/Trail Premium?
3- The safety ratings are clearly better for the 4runner, does anyone have real world experience with this? I'm a volunteer EMT and see lots of destroyed vehicles, I want more safety (i.e. airbags, crumple zones) but still the fun of superior offroad ability in a DD
4- How does the TRD Pro affect interest in the Trail/Trail Premium? In other words, is a trail premium still worth it in a world where the TRD Pro exists? What do 4runner enthusiasts think about the TRD Pro? Gimmick? Awesome?
5- How is the 4runner with kids/family? We have a dog, and the idea of putting a Lab and a baby seat in the back seat of my taco is a little unsettling.
6- Is KDSS worth it?
7- What are folks paying for a loaded Trail Premium?

I know some of these questions have been beaten to death elsewhere, but this is my first kid, and I'm trying to get the safest I can while still enjoying my love for 4wd Toyotas. Obviously, I need guidance. Any comments, warnings, etc. would be most welcome before I go hit up the local dealership for a 4runner test drive.

Much love to everyone posting here. Thanks for the advice!

 

[mattleegee]

Welcome to the forums!

1. Resale? Perfect, i had to buy a new 4runner because 1-4 year old 4runners were selling so high, it still books really high to, loving the resale value!

2. Trail premium (TEP) is a Trail (TE) with a sunroof and heated seats, there might be something else but very minor

3. Im no help here

4. I bought my TE before the TRD Pro was released, just by a few months, i didnt want to wait and i paid ALOT less because was able to negotiate on price, im sure TRD Pro its harder for them to come off price unless they cannot sell it. The money saved can do ALOT of mods to a TE or TEP

5. No help here, my family is girlfriend, and bikes!

6. KDSS? i bought it with my TE, dont have much experiance in a 5th gen 4runner without KDSS but im sure it will only help onroad performance and possibly resale value

7. Here is a cool thread on prices, its for 2014 but im sure there is 2015 info or at least a baseline
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/154274-how-much-people-paying-2014-4runner-out-door.html

 

[doubleroses]

I traded in my 2013 Tacoma TRD OR Double Cab for a 2014 4Runner SR5 4WD. I could not be happier. I found myself in a similar position but I have a 2 year old daughter. I've done countless trips across the US with my Tacoma. I found it to be too small inside for my family and I. Yes, the truck bed is nice but I wasn't using it frequently enough to justify feeling uncomfortable so often. I also found that sitting in the Tacoma became uncomfortable too. Your knees constantly sit above your hips which force you to sit at a weird angle and slide forward.

Since I am fairly good at off roading I opted for the SR5. With the ATRAC you are able to accomplish a lot. I can't tell you how many trails I did in the Tacoma where I didn't have to use ATRAC or the rear locker. I went all over Ouray and Telluride with it completely stock. It really depends on what you intend to do with it off road. Dropping an extra 10K on a Trail isn't worth it to me. If you put it in 4 Low and 1st gear you can crawl with a little breaking. I'd rather be in control anyway. KDSS is unnecessary for the cost. If you're worried about body roll then slow down when you turn your rig. For me the cost doesn't justify it.

I have a 2000 LC that doesn't have all of the KDSS, Crawl, and surface selection and it does a damn good job off road.

Just something to take into consideration.

Application is going to dictate which model you get. I can guarantee you that an SR5 will accomplish 90% of the trails that a Trail model can do. Black leather is not your friend when its been baking in the sun for hours. If you don't believe me your butt will. Hood scoops are cool but when they're fake you might as well add flame stickers to your rig also.

 

[SKP-4R]

I'll add a little bit to [MENTION=87187]mattleegee[/MENTION] post.

1. Like he said, resale is unbelievably good. A quick check on eBay or Craigslist will prove it. A few have been posted up on the forum as well.

2.TEP comes with sunroof, heated leather seats, and turn signal indicators on the side mirror caps. IMHO it is not worth it over a base Trail unless you really need the leather. Dealers will charge you an arm and a leg as TEP are considerable more rare and make up a fraction of the total production run.

3. As far as safety goes, these a pretty safe vehicles. Here's a few links with more info:

Vehicle details

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY

4. Many forum member's will also agree that if you plan on upgrading your T4R, the best platform is to get a Trail edition as cheap as possible and go from there. The consensus seems to be that the $4k+ that you would have to pay over a Trail isn't really worth it, especially if you plan on upgrading to heavier-duty suspension. It is definitely more of "looks" thing as you can get unique color combo and badging but beyond that you aren't getting much. They remove KDSS all-together which was my main reason for getting a Trail. KDSS makes all the difference on highway driving and even with my ICON lift it works perfectly. So to answer your question, yes, it is a bit of a gimmick but if you plan on doing relatively minor upgrades it could be worth the money. All depends if you want the look or not. In fact, I think its really more a question of where does the TRDPRO fit amongst the Trail. You could spend well under $1k on the exact suspension used in the TRDPRO and get it installed while keeping KDSS....
Long story short: Get a base Trail, ICON suspension (stage 1 or 2 to keep it cheap), and a good set of tires and you should be good to go. All of that should be under the MSRP of a TRDPRO. You may even have some extra cash for sliders as well....

5. The backseat's are a little awkward to get into due to the nature of the wheel-well and corner window shape. The 3rd row seating is a bit of a joke IMO but decent in a pinch. But it should be fine for a dog and a lab. As a bonus, the rear window will roll down all the way so your dog will probably love the rear cargo area much more than the backseat.

6. I have KDSS and it is absolutely worth it. Unless you're buying one in Texas, I believe the KDSS comes standard on all Trail's. You won't run into any issues off-road with it or with lifting (up to 3"). In my experience, it drastically reduces body-roll on the freeway while giving much more articulation when going off-road. I see no real downside to the system other than the added difficulty of installing sliders (due to the KDSS lines) and lift kits (disconnecting the shock from the roll-bar).

7. I have a base Trail so I'll let someone else chime in with that info, but before tax it was around 36k. Out the door with CA sales tax was 38.5k but that was with some extra goodies.

A few last words: The 4Runner is definitely worth it you are coming from a taco. It'll ride much nicer even though it is still body-on-frame. The off-road capabilities are just as good, if not better with the Trail edition as you get Hill-Ascent/Descent, Multi-Terrain select, as well as a proper transfer case shifter.

Whichever version you do get, I'm sure you'll be happy. These are great and very capable machines. Good luck with your search!

 

[4x4pilgrim]

Hood scoops are cool but when they're fake you might as well add flame stickers to your rig also.

Ha! Thanks for the comments so far! Maybe I'll get a SR5 with some of those super-cool stick-on side ports. In my fast car past life, they added 10bhp; maybe now they'll offer some "engine cooling" that is absolutely necessary...

Re: TEP/TE, I can definitely make the sell to my wife if it includes heated seats. I'd prefer cloth seats, but, dang, the heated seats are something that she loves that I just don't understand.

 

[SKP-4R]

Ha! Thanks for the comments so far! Maybe I'll get a SR5 with some of those super-cool stick-on side ports. In my fast car past life, they added 10bhp; maybe now they'll offer some "engine cooling" that is absolutely necessary...

I agree that if 90% of your driving is on-road with casual off-road use the other 10% of the time, an SR5 is perfect. A base SR5 is extremely good value. I will say I think KDSS is worth it but it's not like I had much of a choice what with it being standard on a Trail. Even if you plan on spending money on upgrades, starting with an SR5 gives you a lot more $$ to budget. However, the Hill Ascent/Descent has helped me a couple times and the extra armor you get underneath with a Trail has given me some peace-of-mind when going over large rocks. I still think a base Trail is the best "bang for your buck" as far as equipment goes but it all depends on what you use it for and what you want to spend.

 

[4x4pilgrim]

It's getting pretty late where I'm at and you guys have already given me a lot to think about. One of the motives to move back to a 4runner is the forum. When I had the 3rd gen, I got all kinds of help when I needed it. Gotta love community. How does a noob give back? Thanks all for the info. Keep the wisdom coming!

 

[jasonv]

a noob gives back by searching and never asking questions

 

[wanderMT]

Save a couple K and get a SR5 Premium. TEP and SR5P have softex vinyl seats, not leather. Leather only on LE - also LE has full time 4wd. I also had to buy heated seats (also ventilated in LE) for 'better half,' and was undecided between SR5P and LE. 'She, who must be obeyed' decided I should spend an extra 6k on LE - I decided I could do that.

 

[cjacob316]

I agree that if 90% of your driving is on-road with casual off-road use the other 10% of the time, an SR5 is perfect. A base SR5 is extremely good value. I will say I think KDSS is worth it but it's not like I had much of a choice what with it being standard on a Trail. Even if you plan on spending money on upgrades, starting with an SR5 gives you a lot more $$ to budget. However, the Hill Ascent/Descent has helped me a couple times and the extra armor you get underneath with a Trail has given me some peace-of-mind when going over large rocks. I still think a base Trail is the best "bang for your buck" as far as equipment goes but it all depends on what you use it for and what you want to spend.

See I would say the Trail is a fine option for a part time off roader. Both models can handle some weekend excursions without modifications, but the KDSS gives the trail a bit better handling on road.

 

[mcarey86]

KDSS is definitely not standard on the TE/TEPs.

 

[slyangel9]

KDSS is definitely not standard on the TE/TEPs.

I have a 2014 TE equipped with NO KDSS

 

[Phoenix4R]

Since I am fairly good at off roading I opted for the SR5. With the ATRAC you are able to accomplish a lot. I can't tell you how many trails I did in the Tacoma where I didn't have to use ATRAC or the rear locker. I went all over Ouray and Telluride with it completely stock. It really depends on what you intend to do with it off road. Dropping an extra 10K on a Trail isn't worth it to me. If you put it in 4 Low and 1st gear you can crawl with a little breaking. I'd rather be in control anyway. KDSS is unnecessary for the cost. If you're worried about body roll then slow down when you turn your rig. For me the cost doesn't justify it.

If you don't like the Trail, that's fine, but let's not be disingenuous here.

$10k more for a Trail? I paid $35.4k before TTL for my TE w/KDSS. I'm fairly confident in my assumption that you paid more than $25.4k for your SR5. Like for like, at most it's a $3k-$4k difference between the two. It's nowhere near $10k.

KDSS is certainly worth it if you're actually off roading your rig. You might not think it's worth it if the majority of your driving is cruising mall parking lots, however. You'll see increased value in resale, at any rate, with it.

Application is going to dictate which model you get. I can guarantee you that an SR5 will accomplish 90% of the trails that a Trail model can do. Black leather is not your friend when its been baking in the sun for hours.

Ehh? The standard Trail model comes with cloth seats.

If you don't believe me your butt will. Hood scoops are cool but when they're fake you might as well add flame stickers to your rig also.

Looks are subjective, but I'd rather have my hood scoop than that gaudy chrome SR5 badging. Toyo did it right by deleting the badging on the Trail.

 

[mcarey86]

I have a 2014 TE equipped with NO KDSS

Yep. It was actually a bit harder for me to find a TE/P with KDSS when I was hunting.

Looks are subjective, but I'd rather have my hood scoop than that gaudy chrome SR5 badging. Toyo did it right by deleting the badging on the Trail.

I'm with you on the SR5 badging. I hate it.

And as far as the hood scoop goes, I think they make the runner look WAY more aggressive. Sure it's not functional, but it looks tough as hell.

 

[doubleroses]

If you don't like the Trail, that's fine, but let's not be disingenuous here.

$10k more for a Trail? I paid $35.4k before TTL for my TE w/KDSS. I'm fairly confident in my assumption that you paid more than $25.4k for your SR5. Like for like, at most it's a $3k-$4k difference between the two. It's nowhere near $10k.

KDSS is certainly worth it if you're actually off roading your rig. You might not think it's worth it if the majority of your driving is cruising mall parking lots, however. You'll see increased value in resale, at any rate, with it.



Ehh? The standard Trail model comes with cloth seats.



Looks are subjective, but I'd rather have my hood scoop than that gaudy chrome SR5 badging. Toyo did it right by deleting the badging on the Trail.

If you really want to go there...

I have nothing against a Trail model but let's be honest. Most of the Trail features aren't nessessary, especially for going off road.

Talking about the cost difference...I could drop $5k on an SR5 and have ARB Front and Rear lockers installed. That would be the more intelligent way to spend the extra money saved.

I understand that most of the people here plan on keeping their ride stock. Which is fine. In my opinion the SR5 provides the best base to upgrade for Overlanding/ Off Roading.

Keep in mind that most of these opinions are bais. I have the SR5 and I stand behind it. You have the Trail and stand behind it. You can't go wrong with either it just matters what you use it for and plan to do with it.

Also, a heat gun can take off the SR5 badges. No biggie.


Please, pick it apart again.

 

[SKP-4R]

KDSS is definitely not standard on the TE/TEPs.

I believe there are 12 different sales regions in the U.S. for Toyota that each have different options and availability when determining how you want your car spec'd. That's why the online configurator asks for your ZIP code. Down here in SD, the only way to get a Trail Edition is with the KDSS bundled. Other areas (i.e. Texas), only sell the Trail Edition w/o KDSS because they expect people to be lifting their vehicles ( I would assume).

It's all different based on your region but you can still special order a vehicle with options that aren't usually available in your area. That process usually takes a few months....

 

[jwkilgore]

1- Resale: All Toyotas have good resale, unless you trash it on the trail. Mine might be missing a few trim pieces that got hung up on rocks.
2- Can't help, but already answered.
3- Safety: I haven't wrecked one, but safety was one of the reasons I went with a 4R.
4- TRD Pro: IMO you are paying for a name. The Toyota name gets you something in return with high reliability and resale. But for the price difference you can get a lower model and do some serious upgrades without the name plates.
5- Kids/family: Great. I specifically did not want 3rd row, but I can see how they would be useful for middle-sized kids (bigger than a car seat, but still with short legs). Mine works great with two large dogs in the back. But now some states are requiring dogs be restrained, so maybe a third-row is a necessity.
6- KDSS: Don't know. But I know if you want a full suspension lift the KDSS has to go.
7- Pay: don't know.

I went from an extended cab Silverado 1500 to an SR5 after a divorce, and I almost couldn't believe the difference. The handling is better, easier to maneuver in traffic and parking garages, easier to turn around. I now describe the Silverado as an ocean liner. Vastly more interior space. Add a roof-top carrier and a hitch rack and the family travel storage space is phenomenal. It doesn't have minivan or Sequoya capacity, but you can't take a mini-van or Sequoya in the mud.

The one major important thing you will miss going from a pickup to an SUV is open cargo space. I used my Silverado to carry everything from bulk gravel, topsoil, and mulch (much cheaper than bags) to carrying renovation construction debris to the dump. Can't do that with an enclosed SUV. You can get a trailer, but it's not the same.

Some days I regret getting an SR5 instead of a Trail, but only until I look at the numbers. Back when I bought mine the difference was much greater, but now the difference is only about $3,000 (SR5-Trail) or $5,000 (SR5-Trail Premium) or $8,000 (SR5-TRD). Think of the upgraded wheels, tires, shocks, slides, bumpers, racks, air compressor, ladder, lockers, etc. you can get with $8,000.

 

[sooperedd]

If you really want to go there...

I have nothing against a Trail model but let's be honest. Most of the Trail features aren't nessessary, especially for going off road.

Talking about the cost difference...I could drop $5k on an SR5 and have ARB Front and Rear lockers installed. That would be the more intelligent way to spend the extra money saved.

I understand that most of the people here plan on keeping their ride stock. Which is fine. In my opinion the SR5 provides the best base to upgrade for Overlanding/ Off Roading.

Keep in mind that most of these opinions are bais. I have the SR5 and I stand behind it. You have the Trail and stand behind it. You can't go wrong with either it just matters what you use it for and plan to do with it.

Also, a heat gun can take off the SR5 badges. No biggie.


Please, pick it apart again.

^^^ This

The $$ difference between a SR5 and a TE isn't worth it. The 4WD gadgets on the TE are unnecessary. The only feature the TE has that is desirable/needed for off-roading is the rear locker.

The 4Runner would be an upgrade from a Tacoma IMHO.

 

[Lexusbstrdchild]

Although crawl control is pretty cool on the Trail. I was skeptical until the first time we used it going down a steep decline on loose shale. Walked right down it without doing a thing but steering it down.

 

[Phoenix4R]

If you really want to go there...

Sure, let's do it. I know trim line insecurity when I see it.

I have nothing against a Trail model but let's be honest. Most of the Trail features aren't nessessary, especially for going off road.

How many of us *need* a brand new 4R, anyway?

Some people enjoy paying a lot for leather seats and a sun roof. I live somewhere where I can actually enjoy the off-road capability so I'd rather have the performance. I don't think either approach is wrong, so why knock someone because they're able to purchase something nicer?

Talking about the cost difference...I could drop $5k on an SR5 and have ARB Front and Rear lockers installed. That would be the more intelligent way to spend the extra money saved.

Ahh the time honored, "Yeah, well, I can buy such and such and mod it and make it better!".

If I were that concerned about building the baddest beast for the least money, I would have bought a JKUR, not a 4R. At any rate, using that same silly logic, I could build a third gen that would by far and away destroy your SR5 for $15k less. You can buy and build anything, that's really not the point. You'll never see that money back out in resale and it will still just be an SR5.

I understand that most of the people here plan on keeping their ride stock. Which is fine. In my opinion the SR5 provides the best base to upgrade for Overlanding/ Off Roading.

That's your opinion. I don't agree with it. If you can afford it, the TE is absolutely worth the price of admission.

Keep in mind that most of these opinions are bais. I have the SR5 and I stand behind it.

It's spelled "bias", FWIW.

Sure. You're defending your purchase of the SR5 while I'm explaining why I bought my Trail. I'm not broke and I can afford a few more grand for warrantied toys. You evidently can't so you're crapping all over those of us that can. You're just like the V6 guys that used to give the V8 guys shit on the Mustang boards.

"I don't understand why you need that??!?!?!"

Because I can. Again, how many people here need a 4R, period?

Please, pick it apart again.

Feel free to address any of the points I made in my previous post instead of avoiding them. How does a regular, non-premium Trail cost $10k more than a regular SR5 does? Since when do Trails only come with leather interiors?

Like I said, if you're going to run your mouth, at least use factual evidence instead of a bunch of garbage you made up. Otherwise, you might get called out on it.

The $$ difference between a SR5 and a TE isn't worth it. The 4WD gadgets on the TE are unnecessary. The only feature the TE has that is desirable/needed for off-roading is the rear locker.

Really? It's less than $3k. You're already spending better than $30k on the truck to begin with. Is an extra $2900 that big of a deal?