Taking My SR5 on the Rubicon Trail

[Xtremluck]

Thanks for this post. It look like a cool and fun trip but also brutal. Glad you were able to complete and document that cool adventure as well as share it with us. Were there any vehicles there that looked like they did the trails "easily" in comparison to the 4runner?

Yes absolutely, the Jeep XJ and Jeep JLU made the trail look pretty easy. Funny enough the XJ on 33s with a 5" lift was the only one in the group that cleaned the entire trail without a winch pull. He was also completely open in the front and driving a manual transmission! Solid axle suspensions are just so much more effective in rock crawling scenarios.

Also, as much as Toyota fans like to dog on Jeeps they for the most part are superior in the really hard stuff. I know this first hand and prefer to use my Jeep TJ Rubicon as the weapon of choice for very technical trails. You can't beat the comfort of the 4runner though for the 95% of the other off-road driving people typically do.

 

[Metal Head]

Awesome trip report! Rubicon is on my bucket list but being in FL it's probably going to be an after retirement journey.

1 cv, 1 belt, 1 tie rod shows your confidence in the 4R going in!

 

[Jetboy]

So you mean that "trail-rated" badge means "leave on a flatbed?"

Yep. In fairness - I think a factory Rubicon model would be ready to go off the show room floor to run through the Rubicon trail. Probably handle it pretty easily. In the case of the GC - I don't think most buyers would think this outcome is what they are really looking for.

 

[AZ Craig]

Yep. In fairness - I think a factory Rubicon model would be ready to go off the show room floor to run through the Rubicon trail. Probably handle it pretty easily. In the case of the GC - I don't think most buyers would think this outcome is what they are really looking for.

I agree that a stock Rubicon on its 33s would have zero issues other than probably some beat up rock rails and skid plates. I have to admit the few times I got my 2012 JKU into rougher stuff (usually not intentionally) it always made things easier than they seemed like they should be.

As for the Grand in the picture, that's a pre-2022 Grand if not mistaken and doesn't look like a Trailhawk either.

The only Grands carrying the "Trail rated" badge now are actually the Trailhawk 4xe along with the Overland when equipped with the offroad package (which gives the full set of skid plates and offroad tires on top of the air suspension).

I've actually been thinking about grabbing a Trailhawk to replace our Rover (possibly leased due to the $7500 PHEV credit) and am waffling over just how capable it would actually be in mild to moderate offroading.

 

[Jetboy]

I agree that a stock Rubicon on its 33s would have zero issues other than probably some beat up rock rails and skid plates. I have to admit the few times I got my 2012 JKU into rougher stuff (usually not intentionally) it always made things easier than they seemed like they should be.

As for the Grand in the picture, that's a pre-2022 Grand if not mistaken and doesn't look like a Trailhawk either.

The only Grands carrying the "Trail rated" badge now are actually the Trailhawk 4xe along with the Overland when equipped with the offroad package (which gives the full set of skid plates and offroad tires on top of the air suspension).

I've actually been thinking about grabbing a Trailhawk to replace our Rover (possibly leased due to the $7500 PHEV credit) and am waffling over just how capable it would actually be in mild to moderate offroading.

I think the story of that one was when Jeep did the trail in around 2011 or 2012 maybe to put the trail rated badge on the GC. I'm not entirely sure if it was a production or pre-production model. But it took a beating. I've noticed in most of the OEM vehicle trips there you see a lot if photos and videos from the first few miles and not many from the end of the trail.

The 4Runner that they did it in 2009 ended up with some body damage to one door IIRC and I've heard that it also may have left with a smaller fuel tank capacity due to a heavily dented fuel tank skid. You also never hear about how Toyota rolled the 4Runner in the Baja 1000. But I saw a video from a spectator back then of it on its roof and being rolled back onto its tires. I speculate that's why it lost 4x4 for the last part of the race and ended up getting passed at the end with only rwd. I bet there's a set of computer safety triggers that went off during a rollover and couldn't easily be reset during the race.

I almost think the smaller Cherokee might be better on a trail like the Rubicon than the GC. Something like a Samurai might zip through a bunch of spots that challenge bigger rigs, but then have issues with some of the ledges you have to climb. I drove part of it in a friend's FJ40 on 39's and it was just point and shoot. A lot like a short wheel base Wrangler would be.

 

[AZ Craig]

I think the story of that one was when Jeep did the trail in around 2011 or 2012 maybe to put the trail rated badge on the GC. I'm not entirely sure if it was a production or pre-production model. But it took a beating. I've noticed in most of the OEM vehicle trips there you see a lot if photos and videos from the first few miles and not many from the end of the trail.

Got it. Supposedly the current 4xe Trailhawk was able to run the whole trail on just it's PHEV battery. Those vehicles don't articulate as much as I'd like to see and it'd definitely take a bit of getting used to how often you'd have to put a wheel off the ground I think.

The 4Runner that they did it in 2009 ended up with some body damage to one door IIRC and I've heard that it also may have left with a smaller fuel tank capacity due to a heavily dented fuel tank skid. You also never hear about how Toyota rolled the 4Runner in the Baja 1000. But I saw a video from a spectator back then of it on its roof and being rolled back onto its tires. I speculate that's why it lost 4x4 for the last part of the race and ended up getting passed at the end with only rwd. I bet there's a set of computer safety triggers that went off during a rollover and couldn't easily be reset during the race.

I almost think the smaller Cherokee might be better on a trail like the Rubicon than the GC. Something like a Samurai might zip through a bunch of spots that challenge bigger rigs, but then have issues with some of the ledges you have to climb. I drove part of it in a friend's FJ40 on 39's and it was just point and shoot. A lot like a short wheel base Wrangler would be.

I actually remember when Toyota ran what I think was a Trail prototype through there (I actually think some of the Japanese development team was involved). I think they did mount up rock rails and it definitely had some minor trail dents at the end, but it made it through fine if I remember things correctly.

I actually don't know if a stock Cherokee (now discontinued also) Trailhawk ever made it through the Rubicon or not. I know I've seen video on them on trails like Hell's Revenge, but it's really not that bad if you end up doing most of the bypasses from what I understand (I honestly have never had the balls to run it as we've always been up there on our own). One of the biggest liabilities of all the Jeeps other than the Wrangler currently is smaller than optimal tire size. The Grand comes with 265/60R18 (30.5 inch) and from what I understand cannot really accept anything larger than perhaps a 31 without a lot of creativity.

Considering we all complain about how hard it is to get anything larger than 33 on the 4Runners, we really don't have it that bad .

 

[CutthroatSlam]

How would a Bronco do on the Rubicon?

 

[02SE]

How would a Bronco do on the Rubicon?

I'm assuming you're talking about the Broncos currently on sale, and not the little Bronco Sport CUV versions also currently on sale.

Considering the failures in the steering system I've seen them have on fairly easy obstacles, I'd say not well.

 

[srsrogerissrs]

I'm assuming you're talking about the Broncos currently on sale, and not the little Bronco Sport CUV versions also currently on sale.

Considering the failures in the steering system I've seen them have on fairly easy obstacles, I'd say not well.

I think people are just driving broncos like you would a jeep. However, it's still an IFS so you can't just yeet an IFS everywhere. I'm sure the front locker doesn't help either (in regards to their steering failures). The only downside I see for the Bronco is how massive they are.

 

[Xtremluck]

How would a Bronco do on the Rubicon?

Id be willing to bet good money that there have been more 6th gen Broncos that have done the Rubicon Trail than 5th Gen 4runners. I see them pop up in the Rubicon FB group I'm a part of. They do just fine but are subject to the same IFS steering breakage risk that our trucks have. Also as [MENTION=148700]srsrogerissrs[/MENTION] mentioned the front locker certainly doesn't make things easy for those tie rods.

 

[CrawlCulture]

I think people are just driving broncos like you would a jeep. However, it's still an IFS so you can't just yeet an IFS everywhere. I'm sure the front locker doesn't help either (in regards to their steering failures). The only downside I see for the Bronco is how massive they are.

If you are talking about rock bouncers, those basically just have jeep bodies if they aren't fully buggy'd. Stock jeep components would not handle that abuse. I wheel with a lot of toyotas with IFS that are locked front and rear (a couple have dual cases) and the stock steering components have never been an issue for us. That being said, I always carry extra tie rods kinda like I carry CVs. The CVs are really the major "issue" with IFS but we will break solid axle axle shafts as well, it just isn't as common. Broncos have notoriously weak steering components (tie rods in particular) that is more than simply an IFS issue. It is a common upgrade on Broncos but you don't really see it in Toyotas as much until you start going long travel IFS and need extra length.

I personally took a hit on my front driver that trashed the CV and wheel bearing and seized the tie rod but the tie rod is still going strong. They do break, I've seen an FJ break both, but I wouldn't consider it an issue like it is in those broncos. If you are doing a trail like the rubicon, I'd take spare parts but I would not anticipate a tie rod breakage like I would a CV. If you are someone who does drive a 4runner and somehow breaks tie rods, I'd upgrade to a tundra rack/rods. Break it, upgrade it... thats pretty much the name of the game haha

 

[AZ Craig]

Id be willing to bet good money that there have been more 6th gen Broncos that have done the Rubicon Trail than 5th Gen 4runners. I see them pop up in the Rubicon FB group I'm a part of. They do just fine but are subject to the same IFS steering breakage risk that our trucks have. Also as [MENTION=148700]srsrogerissrs[/MENTION] mentioned the front locker certainly doesn't make things easy for those tie rods.

Completely true. Yes, the Bronco hasn't been the most reliable vehicle to date, but it's going to out perform the vast majority of 4Runner's, likely with less modification to it alone on the fact that it has better angles and a much easier ability to take 35 and 37 inch tires than a 4Runner ever does.

Don't get me wrong, the 4Runner is amazingly versatile and can get through terrain way nastier than most people would ever dream of bringing one in. That being said, it doesn't necessarily make it easy like some of these other vehicles rolling on huge tires quite frankly can.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I'm assuming you're talking about the Broncos currently on sale, and not the little Bronco Sport CUV versions also currently on sale.

Considering the failures in the steering system I've seen them have on fairly easy obstacles, I'd say not well.

1973 Bronco w/ 302 and 3 spd manual transmission.

 

[02SE]

1973 Bronco w/ 302 and 3 spd manual transmission.

That depends on many factors.

Stock they had very small 7.00-15 tires. 2.34:1 low-range gearing (not really low, but decent for the time). Power was 137 hp, and 230 lb-ft, so a fair amount less than a 5th gen 4Runner, but they were also a smaller vehicle and around 3500 lbs curb weight. Which is just about 1500 lbs lighter than my TRD ORP as it sits.

I guess the only way to know is to try it.

 

[Jetboy]

How would a Bronco do on the Rubicon?

I think it depends on your modifications (based on your other comment regarding it being an early bronco). Most of them that my friends have are on at least 35's and have either Dana 44's or larger axles. In totally stock form - you would have a very bad time. I'd doubt that you'd make it past the first gate keeper obstacle and if you did you'd probably already have body damage.

If you have a typical EB with 35's and upgraded axles - you'll have fun and should go through no problem. I would not try it without rock sliders though unless you're on more like 37-40" tires. My own FJ40 doesn't have rock sliders, but it has 40" tires and I've cut 6 inches off the bottom of the original body, so it's pretty high clearance already and the frame rails act basically like sliders in most cases. Plus it's a trail only rig, so I'm okay with some body damage. If you have a nice EB - keep those sills off the rocks!!

The short wheel base will help a lot. It's a lot easier trail for smaller narrower vehicles.

My only other suggestion is that you should not to with the oem roll bar. It's just not strong enough in case you did have a bad roll over. It's really unlikely if you're careful, but a better modern cage is a really good idea.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Yes absolutely, the Jeep XJ and Jeep JLU made the trail look pretty easy. Funny enough the XJ on 33s with a 5" lift was the only one in the group that cleaned the entire trail without a winch pull. He was also completely open in the front and driving a manual transmission! Solid axle suspensions are just so much more effective in rock crawling scenarios.

Also, as much as Toyota fans like to dog on Jeeps they for the most part are superior in the really hard stuff. I know this first hand and prefer to use my Jeep TJ Rubicon as the weapon of choice for very technical trails. You can't beat the comfort of the 4runner though for the 95% of the other off-road driving people typically do.

Congrats on completing the Rubicon. Maybe your trip will inspire Toyota to create a Rubicon version for the 6th gen. I was wondering if the XJ on 33’s was the same one kicking ass in Utah in this video. Pretty amazing. And as far as the Bronco goes, well, that’s another story in the same video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VX7l3SNaG48&pp=ygULSmVlcCBicm9uY28%3D

 

[Xtremluck]

I would not try it without rock sliders though unless you're on more like 37-40" tires. My own FJ40 doesn't have rock sliders, but it has 40" tires and I've cut 6 inches off the bottom of the original body, so it's pretty high clearance already and the frame rails act basically like sliders in most cases. Plus it's a trail only rig, so I'm okay with some body damage. If you have a nice EB - keep those sills off the rocks!!

I forgot to mention sliders, they are an absolute must and were used extensively. After I was done with the trail both were bent up a few mm making it pretty hard to open my rear doors. My passengers side slider also has a failed weld on one of the mounts. More things to fix.......

 

[Xtremluck]

Congrats on completing the Rubicon. Maybe your trip will inspire Toyota to create a Rubicon version for the 6th gen. I was wondering if the XJ on 33’s was the same one kicking ass in Utah in this video. Pretty amazing. And as far as the Bronco goes, well, that’s another story in the same video. Showdown: Bronco vs Jeeps - Who Will Be Crowned the Ultimate Wheeler? - YouTube

Thanks, no that isn't my buddy but I think its a great example of how much weight and suspension articulation matters. Every time I drive my Jeep on the trail I'm reminded of that. It makes it up things barely spinning a tire that would require me to winch up on with the 5th gen.

 

[TRD PANTHER]

Thanks, no that isn't my buddy but I think it’s a great example of how much weight and suspension articulation matters. Every time I drive my Jeep on the trail I'm reminded of that. It makes it up things barely spinning a tire that would require me to winch up on with the 5th gen.

That’s what Jeeps are great for and hard to beat in those environments. Nice that you have both. I know you do some heavy 4wheeling in your 4Runner and have it well set up for that. Regardless, it was nice to see you get through with your 4Runner without much difficulty.

 

[Ctrulock]

Very cool man