Talk About BS Rag Mags

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Koz said:
How can you make a "Car of the Year" when not one has even been sold?

Motor Trend names the Chevy Volt Car of the Year - AND NOT A SINGLE CAR HAS BEEN SOLD YET!!! - AutoSpies Auto News

Koz
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But, Motortrend HAS done full testing of the Volt. When does COY depend on car sales??!! MT has tested the Volt, along with the other contenders...and i guess, found it to be the COY. What is so wrong about that? Now, if MT has not tested it and gave it COY, then i would have a problem with it. But, this is not the case...they tested it and compared it to the other contenders. Nothing is wrong with that...and trust me, i don't particularly like the Volt either, but it is a worthy car and, so far, the best of its Li-ion breed.

I think that Autospies is wrong...and for a car enthusiast site, i am disappointed with their blatant bias and stone throwing (while living in a glass house!). :(
 
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Motor Trend also named the Chevy Vega COTY years ago.
Since that I have no faith in anything that rag says, their decisions are based on $$.
To them every car is the best thing since sliced bread. You never see them name a POS Of The Year, although there are tons of them.
 
126.7 mpg?! The technology sounds impressive but since it's GM, it would need to be backed by an outstanding warranty for me to consider it. I wouldn't be surprised if we started reading about Volt drivers being electrocuted after using the left turn signal while applying the brakes with the windshield wipers on.
 
004gunner said:
126.7 mpg?! The technology sounds impressive but since it's gm, it would need to be backed by an outstanding warranty for me to consider it. I wouldn't be surprised if we started reading about volt drivers being electrocuted after using the left turn signal while applying the brakes with the windshield wipers on.
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lmao
 
They act like we aren't supposed to remember the EV-1 and how they forcefully repossesed all of them and destroyed them. Now this technology that they had 15+ years ago and tried to brush under the table is worthy of COTY? BS.

I think the mpg craze is so retorted. Spending tens of thousands to save a hundreds on gas. There's a syaing, "You got a $100 waitin on a penny". We were getting 35+mpgs in the 60s and 70s and now 40-50 years later we are raving about the same figures for 10xs the price. Makes me laugh.
 
brian2sun said:
They act like we aren't supposed to remember the EV-1 and how they forcefully repossesed all of them and destroyed them. Now this technology that they had 15+ years ago and tried to brush under the table is worthy of COTY? BS.

I think the mpg craze is so retorted. Spending tens of thousands to save a hundreds on gas. There's a syaing, "You got a $100 waitin on a penny". We were getting 35+mpgs in the 60s and 70s and now 40-50 years later we are raving about the same figures for 10xs the price. Makes me laugh.
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Actually, was the EV1 mass produced? Was it capable of mass producing? Yeah, Tesla has come out with all-electric sports car, but it ain't cheap nor is it really mass-produced. The beauty of recent/current hybrids is that it is now cheap enough to afford and mass produced in large numbers. Li-ion batteries have just become mainstream enough for this.

35 mpgs + in the 60's...how? By what method was this measurement done? And inflation does add to the price....

I agree with you about diminishing returns as you go up in price for a hybrid. But, the Volt is not exactly bare bones...it has luxury stuff in it along with some high tech stuff. I do think that it is a bit overpriced, but it is the first of its kind...and i am sure that its price will settled down over the next year or two. For example, my Prius is not cheap, but it has luxury and safety features on it (that used to be only on top-of-the line Lexus LS) to justify its asking price. You can't just look at a hybrid and its pricetag and then assume that it is overprice. Don't judge a book by its cover....

How about crash testing a Volt against a 1960 "35mpg+" car? I much rather be in the Volt! :D

Viewing pleasure: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtxd27jlZ_g[/ame]
 
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Thai said:
Actually, was the EV1 mass produced? Was it capable of mass producing? Yeah, Tesla has come out with all-electric sports car, but it ain't cheap nor is it really mass-produced. The beauty of recent/current hybrids is that it is now cheap enough to afford and mass produced in large numbers. Li-ion batteries have just become mainstream enough for this.

35 mpgs + in the 60's...how? By what method was this measurement done? And inflation does add to the price....

I agree with you about diminishing returns as you go up in price for a hybrid. But, the Volt is not exactly bare bones...it has luxury stuff in it along with some high tech stuff. I do think that it is a bit overpriced, but it is the first of its kind...and i am sure that its price will settled down over the next year or two. For example, my Prius is not cheap, but it has luxury and safety features on it (that used to be only on top-of-the line Lexus LS) to justify its asking price. You can't just look at a hybrid and its pricetag and then assume that it is overprice. Don't judge a book by its cover....

How about crash testing a Volt against a 1960 "35mpg+" car? I much rather be in the Volt! :D

Viewing pleasure: YouTube - 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air vs. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu crash test
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Safety standards always go up as time goes on, but mpgs not so much as they would like you to believe. Here's a good read:
5 Top Retro Eco-Supercars: Best Fuel Sippers of the Past 34 Years - Popular Mechanics

Towards the bottom in reference to the Civic...
In the late 1970s, four passengers in a CVCC meant bruised knees for those in the backseat, but highway economy was about 40 mpg.
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That was in the 70s. 40 mpgs fully loaded! How about when only one person was in the car? - 45 mpgs maybe, in what 1977 or so? People would rave about that now for a fully gas-powered car, but they had that crap before I was born. That example may only be ~35 years old, but it illustrates my point and it was all I could find right now and it's close enough. My Dad had a '64 Porsche when I was a kid that got 35+.

The EV-1 was mass produced according to Wiki:
General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was the first mass-produced and purpose-designed electric vehicle of the modern era from a major automaker, and the first GM car designed to be an electric vehicle from the outset.
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Yeah, i know my dad had a civic in the 80's that was doing mid 40 mpg's, now he has a vehicle that can do 50mpg while still being fun. I know the original mini's had quite good mpgs and they were made from the late 50's till 2000. Fuel efficent vehicles have always been there, no one cared to look at them till it was the "thing to have".
 
Brian, I stand corrected about EV. Still, I like to see current EPA standard applied to the older cars.
 
I actually had a Chevy Sprint back in college and graduate school. I like it...very reliable. However, it was literally a tin can. At any speed above 50 mph, it would shake badly in the wind and vibrate. I am thankful that i did not get into any accident...because if i did, then i probably won't be here today. I had no AC, no power steering, nada. In fact, the "fan" feature just blew the outside air (including pebbles, sand, etc.) into my face! :D

BTW, the Geo Metro (and Sprint) gets around 36/44 mpg according to current EPA ratings. These are good numbers, but remember these had 3 cylinders (1.0 liter), no airbags, no crash structures, weighs around 1800 lbs, and had less than 60 hp!

A Prius nowadays weighs around 3100 lbs. The Volt is around 3700 lbs. Big differences compared to the Metro. Yet, the fuel economy is better than the Metro with better acceleration and much better crash test results. And, obviously, these new cars are way more comfortable with more luxury features.

So, while the older cars may be good on gas (but still canNOT beat the current top hybrids), you cannot really compare with the new hybrids. The new hybrids can beat the older cars in MPGs while being safer (and heavier), more comfortable, and have more luxury. It is like having your cake and eating it too.
 
JohnsD90 said:
Yeah, i know my dad had a civic in the 80's that was doing mid 40 mpg's, now he has a vehicle that can do 50mpg while still being fun. I know the original mini's had quite good mpgs and they were made from the late 50's till 2000. Fuel efficent vehicles have always been there, no one cared to look at them till it was the "thing to have".
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It is a "thing to have" because fuel prices have gone up along with the economy going south. When it was $0.89/gallon, no one cared about fuel economy...but that was then, this is now. So, it is NOT a fad that hybrids are becoming more popular as you suggested.

But, i can guarantee you that your dad's Civic will be crushed by the Volt in a crash! And Prius can be a decent drive...if you pick the right one.
 
But, back to topic, i don't see a problem with the Volt being COY...i am not particularly impress with the new cars this year...so, the Volt is a clear winner IMO.
 
Well I think you're right that you simply can't compare today's cars with those from the past, the quality and technology has definitely improved. My point was that I think it's funny that people sell their current cars and spend $10s of thousands more to get 10 mpgs better. And I think most do it and justify their purchase by the fuel economy alone.

I just think it's funny that people will spend say $10K before they just do some simple math in their head. So... maybe I'll save $50 a month, times 12 months so that's $600/year in gas savings. $10,000 divided by 600 = 16 1/2 years of owning their hybrid (or whatever) before they break even. That's really what my point was, people are pretty much idiots and the automakers' marketing depts. know it.
 
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While i agree with you, i think that most educated folks know that the Volt is more than just fuel economy. Technically speaking, if you have a 9-5 job and your job is less than 20 miles from your workplace, then the Volt (and Leaf) can pay for itself relatively quickly because the only money is spent on electric bill from your house. Although, like you said, it could take several years, but the Volt also comes with other luxury stuff in it too. Same goes for my Prius...yeah, i got it for the great fuel economy, but it is also quite nice to drive and has the extra safety features that i need. So, yeah, i was willing to spend money on it...i am sure that i could have bought a Corolla for way less, but it is not nearly as nice to drive, nor is it as safe (nor practical).

There is more to today's hybrids than just fuel economy, although fuel economy is a big selling point no doubt. Again, going back to the cake analogy...you now have a midsize sedan with all the comfort and safety of such while having better fuel economy than a 3-cylinder tin can car back in the 1980s.
 
I guess what I was really trying to say is most people who buy new hybrids wouldn't be buying a new car at all if it weren't for trying to save $$ on gas. My sister for instance sold me her '05 Honda CR-V for what the dealer was going to give her on a trade in because she wanted a Yaris (I have no idea why, but she likes em). The Yaris gets ~10-12 mpgs better than the CR-V, but the safety and features are comparable. I had no problem buying a car for ~$4000 below KBB because I will probably sell it for what I paid for it in 3 or 4 years after I get my use out of it.

I tried to do the math for her, but she had her heart set on the Yaris and IMO used the fuel economy alone to justify it. Now she has a car payment of $300/mo (she had no payment before because the CR-V was paid off), but saves ~$100/month in gas. Hmm.. just seems dumb to me, but I tried to tell her, she didn't listen, and so I had no problem getting a great deal instead of the dealership taking it on trade. I think there are millions of people in this country that rationalize it the same way.
 
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