flighht2k5
New member
And that's your opinion
I like all land cruiser and would love to have one of each one day.
Talk me out of a Land Cruiser
- Thread starter stiles_s
- Start date
And that's your opinion
I like all land cruiser and would love to have one of each one day.
smallfry
New member
The 1999 model was the last year for a rear locker.
BlackWorksInc
New member
That's the problem, overseas the Land Cruiser gets more love in terms of decontenting and setting it up for a more "outdoorsy" feel. The LC200 itself is plenty capable, the frame is very strong, the drivetrain is very well built and the suspension is fairly robust.
Yes it weighs quite a bit, but honestly that doesn't matter too much unless you're on soft terrain; for the most part the weight distribution and center of gravity will be similar to a 4Runner. This means things like tipping angle and angle of approach will not be that much different. I mean keep in mind there's trucks and SUVs that are similar in weight and they do pretty well on most trails. The other thing you have to keep in mind is that "Rock Crawling" is more of a niche aspect of off-roading vs. typically expeditionary & rough terrain roles; much of the "legend" of Toyota 4WD vehicles is from their sustained use in more real world off-roading vs. the mostly recreational stuff we do.
Bottom line, in the US the Land Cruiser only comes in one unfortunate flavor: Blinged out Mall Crawler. Overseas it's stayed somewhat true to it's off-road/expeditionary vehicle reputation and sees continued use by many organizations that want a reliable and capable 4WD vehicle.
Cheers!
Member
Here is an excellent article
Japan's 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser Is What Our Lexus LX Should Be
The japanese domestic market Land Cruiser variants apparently cost between $41,000 to $55,000. But uses the smaller V8 (not the 5.7L here in USA) it gets the 1UR-FE 4.6 V8 with 314 horsepower and 339 lb-ft of torque.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]: How often do you see a land cruiser pull in for service?
Japan's 2016 Toyota Land Cruiser Is What Our Lexus LX Should Be
The japanese domestic market Land Cruiser variants apparently cost between $41,000 to $55,000. But uses the smaller V8 (not the 5.7L here in USA) it gets the 1UR-FE 4.6 V8 with 314 horsepower and 339 lb-ft of torque.
[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION]: How often do you see a land cruiser pull in for service?
wfo9
New member
See your point...
But we live in the US and the OP wanted to be talked out of an LC so he could keep his 4Runner. That's literally the title of the post. I think we did a good job of doing just that. LOL.
My main reaction was to the claim that the latest gen LC is better and stronger than any previous generation. That just seemed like complete BS to me. More gadgets and luxury tech no doubt, but it is far from what an LC was back in the day.
The underpinnings of it are still solid... I said exactly that, but is it 2 current 4runners better (you could byy 2 for the price of 1....). Not even close, in fact it is less capable out of the box in many scenarios. Also, I think you are underestimating the burden of an extra 1000k pounds. It's huge in determining what a vehicle can do in all off-road conditions. The only equalizer is more tire... So I guess if you ran 35s.. but those things already get absolutely the worst MPG I have ever seen. It's incredible that full size trucks of the same weight... literally get 2x the mpg of that dinosaur. It's just seems like a ridiculous buy to me, but I'm sure others have different priorities.
Edit: the mpg is better now.. It's rated 15/18. So my statement above is off. Not 2x better anymore. But the person I know that has one is well below 15 all stock.
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TheWraith
New member
wfo9
New member
OP here. I happened to put about 300 miles on my 4r today, in some really crappy weather. Had a lot of time to think about the 4r/LC.
There's one available nearby, and I should probably go drive it either way. But, the 4r has these things going for it:
- Very comfortable on the freeway, cruises all day at 70-80 and returns 20mpg. Cruises better than my old GX470, as long as you don't need to pass on a 2 land road
- 1000lbs lighter than the LC. That's a ton of mass to suspend, brake, etc. I'm sure that's one of the reasons the parts on the LC need to be beefier.
- 4r has more cargo space, and I just hate the fact that the 3rd row isn't removable (easily) in the LC. you can technically remove it, but you've still got seatbelts and other crap back there. Tons of space in the 4r.
- The 4r is the perfect size for me. The LC is only 3" longer and 1.5" wider, but that's probably going to be noticeable.
- I like that the 4r isn't typically driven around my town by soccer moms (no offense, I'm a soccer dad). And, I saw one on the freeway today just like mine and I think they are better looking than the LC200. The LC200 is like a marshmallow.
- And, it's still basically new (10k miles), and I own it. A 2011-2013 LC would be a bit of a gamble, *and* more $$.
Will probably go drive it just to be sure, but today's trip made me love the 4r a bit more...
Sounds like you are using your head...
I think you made the right decision.:thumb:
BlackWorksInc
New member
Rarely, a handful of LC100's or 200's a year maybe? I think maybe we get even less than that for PDI (pre-delivery inspection) to sell a year. They really are just too expensive for what they offer in the only trim you can get in the states; most people overlook it and just go to the LX570.
Jetboy
New member
If you want to build a serious offroad vehicle, the 200 is a much better starting point than a 5th gen. The 200 has, among other things 380hp, an 8 speed auto with a 25% lower 1st gear, a 9.5" rear diff and an 8.7" front. The wheel bearings are larger than a Ford Superduty. It has a drivetrain that can pretty easily handle 37's maybe even up to 40" tires. Stripped down it's maybe 500lbs heavier than a stripped down 4runner.
There isn't a single 5th gen 4runner that's a real trail vehicle. Doesn't that tell you something? Not one 5th gen at all that can hang with a 200 on 37's like this guy:
RainCityShecks
New member
If you want to build a serious offroad vehicle, the 200 is a much better starting point than a 5th gen. The 200 has, among other things 380hp, an 8 speed auto with a 25% lower 1st gear, a 9.5" rear diff and an 8.7" front. The wheel bearings are larger than a Ford Superduty. It has a drivetrain that can pretty easily handle 37's maybe even up to 40" tires. Stripped down it's maybe 500lbs heavier than a stripped down 4runner.
There isn't a single 5th gen 4runner that's a real trail vehicle. Doesn't that tell you something? Not one 5th gen at all that can hang with a 200 on 37's like this guy:
Lots of them out there on 35s.
That rig is bad a$%^, holy cow.
Danimal
New member
If you want to build a serious offroad vehicle, the 200 is a much better starting point than a 5th gen. The 200 has, among other things 380hp, an 8 speed auto with a 25% lower 1st gear, a 9.5" rear diff and an 8.7" front. The wheel bearings are larger than a Ford Superduty. It has a drivetrain that can pretty easily handle 37's maybe even up to 40" tires. Stripped down it's maybe 500lbs heavier than a stripped down 4runner.
There isn't a single 5th gen 4runner that's a real trail vehicle. Doesn't that tell you something? Not one 5th gen at all that can hang with a 200 on 37's like this guy:
Lots of them out there on 35s.
Well said, and good points. I still question the size of the 200 series on tight technical trails - especially with a big lift and 37s. That rig is cool, but is gigantic.
flighht2k5
New member
A 200 series has the same wheelbase as an 80. About an inch wider. So the size is comparable.
RESQLAB
New member
I loved my L/C (82,86,88,2005)... the early FJ60-62's where the most fun but not very practical/safe today when everyone is traveling at 80 + mph and you can practically feel the doors being sucked off as they pass.
My biggest complaint about the newer L/C's is the stupid fold & tumble rear seats. Why not put a flat load floor in a vehicle so you can actually sleep in it is beyond me? Also, it makes it difficult for a dog to hang its head out the window. The Tahoes & Suburbans are the same set up as was my old Isuzu Trooper.
I recently helped move my nephew up to grad school in his 1999 L/C and we had to remove the 3rd row and was surprised how little room it had. We also managed to bend one of the metal rear seat bottom latches since they are exposed when folded up... lame design.
My overall experience with Land Cruisers is that they are an incredible truck. However, its imperative to stay on top of the maintenance and they will cost you more in parts. However, I never had a hard time re-selling a L/C and always got top dollar.
I wish we could get some of those more stripped down version 4x4's like in 3rd world countries... Prados, Nissan Patrols, etc... The new Land Cruisers are just to posh and geared toward The Kardashians, not a quail hunting trip in Mexico.
If I had to buy one again, I'd find a solid used one, strip it down inside & out, Line-x the heck out of it and have some fun... Hmmmm, I wonder if my nephew wants to sell his 1999? LOL
My biggest complaint about the newer L/C's is the stupid fold & tumble rear seats. Why not put a flat load floor in a vehicle so you can actually sleep in it is beyond me? Also, it makes it difficult for a dog to hang its head out the window. The Tahoes & Suburbans are the same set up as was my old Isuzu Trooper.
I recently helped move my nephew up to grad school in his 1999 L/C and we had to remove the 3rd row and was surprised how little room it had. We also managed to bend one of the metal rear seat bottom latches since they are exposed when folded up... lame design.
My overall experience with Land Cruisers is that they are an incredible truck. However, its imperative to stay on top of the maintenance and they will cost you more in parts. However, I never had a hard time re-selling a L/C and always got top dollar.
I wish we could get some of those more stripped down version 4x4's like in 3rd world countries... Prados, Nissan Patrols, etc... The new Land Cruisers are just to posh and geared toward The Kardashians, not a quail hunting trip in Mexico.
If I had to buy one again, I'd find a solid used one, strip it down inside & out, Line-x the heck out of it and have some fun... Hmmmm, I wonder if my nephew wants to sell his 1999? LOL
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wfo9
New member
I had posted a reply to this yesterday, but realized I was falling into trap, so I deleted it.
I follow, some of your reply and it makes some good points... it's well built.. and has solid underpinnings. There is nothing wrong with a 200 (besides being portly and soft out of the box). However, I just don't feel you get much for your money with it and I don't feel it is as capable off-road out of the box as a 5th gen 4Runner trail edition. And I definitely don't think it compares to the older ones in terms of a hard core off-road build.... Are built ones cool, hell yea.
It has a Tundra powertrain... and is actually a little heavier, yet has a smaller diff (9.5 vs 10.5). I think they run the same diff up front. So not that impressive when you make that comparison.
So you are going to buy a 200 and strip it down? OK.:wacko:
Calling that 200 a "Real trail rig" and claiming there is not a single 5th gen on the same level... Not sure I agree with that at all. So big tires and a lift + 390 hp make it a "real trail rig". I'm sure everyone's definition of a trail rig is different, but I don't see how big tires and a lift qualify. That would make about a million Tacomas the greatest trail rigs ever.... I don't know what else your example has on it, but it looks pretty vulnerable to trail damage at first glance.
I get that LC has a following, because they were fantastic in the past... I get that very experienced off-roaders buy new ones and modify them to be very capable.. I get that they are used all over the world... That does not make them a good value or an ideal choice for most people in the US. Old land cruisers are very cool (I want one bad), I just can't imagine spending the money on a new one and feeling good about it. Older ones are a great choice... you get a good value for your money + some character and the ability to really do a hard core build without all the electronic junk getting in the way . I'm just not convinced the new ones are worth the price tag and I'm definitely not convinced they are worth the price of 2+ 5th gens (or a used one + 10-20k over a new 5th).
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RESQLAB
New member
Never said "200" but thanks for the mention anyway... was thinking more like an older model. I do agree with you, not worth the cost of admission vs. a 5th gen.
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wfo9
New member
I don't think I did a mention... but I can see how you thought it was a response to your statement....
I was responding to JetBoys post that I quoted.
The lightest 4runner is 1,400lbs less. Most 4wd 5th gens would be about 1,100 lbs less out of the box.
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Danimal
New member
Well, and that's kinda my point. I had an 80 series and it was just a bit too big for some of the tighter technical trails. My 5th gen is pushing the limits.
Dan
wfo9
New member
Agree the 5th gen is really a little too big (6" less overhang in the rear and a slightly shorter wheelbase would be ideal). But it makes great use of the space so, at least it feels very spacious inside compared to it's external dimensions.
STX4Runner
New member
The 5th Gen is very similar to the 80 in dimensions. From Wikipedia:
80 LC
Wheelbase: 112.2"
Length : 188.2" '90-'94
189.8" '95-'97
5th Gen
Wheelbase: 109.8"
Length: 189.9
Also, the 80 series was 72"-76" wide depending on the year (they got bigger in '95) and the 5th Gen is 75.8" wide. Height for the two is also almost identical. Not trying to say your wrong at all, just showing the comparison.
The 200 is just slightly bigger than the 80 and the 5th Gen. The biggest problem is the approach and departure angles on the 200. They're 30 and 20 degrees respectively. A stock Trail Edition is 33 and 26 I think. That 20 degree rear departure angle is going to get you into some bad problems on the trail. Especially with the 200s integrated trailer hitch not being able to take the abuse.
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STX4Runner
New member
I second this strongly. There are several 5th gens on here that could hang with that one. Yours for one would probably be fine. Hell, I've done some really hard trails in mine and am pretty mildly modded. Any harder and I'd be coming back with serious body damage. I can't imagine tiptoeing that beast through whatever "real trails" we're talking about
