The End to my 4runner

[00Sebby]

Depends on how you judge quality? Recalls and campaigns are somewhat tricky to quantify properly. For example the Takata Airbag stuff is not Toyota's fault, it's Takata's and they're not the only one with that issue. Do you count a software update for a transmission or emissions related component as a serious reliability issue in this day and age or a "software upgrade/patch" like most other digital items? Does recalling a set of vehicles because the 3rd row seat backboards had instructions that weren't as detailed as the new ones on how to operate the 3rd row seat constitute as a reliability issue? Recalls and Campaigns alone do not indicate much without context. Warranty repairs on the other hand can show a a better trend in that case.

Jeeps across the board have suffered from lots of issues that haven't really been as big on the Toyota side. You don't see the transmissions in Toyotas needing to be replaced 3 times in less than 50k because the 9spd set-up is off. Or the constant weird electrical issues that Chrysler seems to have in it's products. The fact that Jeep dealers STOCK cylinder heads for the V6's, ect. because they have known cylinder head issues.

Granted, Toyota has it's own niche issues that tend to be fairly large. But You see more things like trim panels, secondary systems (Entune for example) and other small issues where as I have seen and heard far too many horror stories from Chrysler/Jeep techs.

Depending on who designed the Diesel Engine, it may be very reliable; but the vehicle that it goes in is still a Chrys... I mean Fiat product and the quality is getting somewhat better, but not quite there yet.

I agree with most of what you say. But saying Takata airbag issue is not Toyota's fault would imply Toyota is not responsible for the whole vehicle. Therefore, since the W5A580 Jeep Wrangler auto transmission and the NSG 6sp are made by Mercedes and the Grand Cherokee 9sp is made by ZF Friedrichshafen Group, using your logic it is not Jeep's fault. Short of bodies and engines, the OEMs make very little of the components in their vehicles. Interiors come from suppliers like JCI and Lear, differentials from the likes of Dana, transmissions from companies like Aisin and ZF, etc, etc. The only way to be fair in judging quality is to say every manufacturer is responsible for their whole vehicle. After all they chose the suppliers. I'd much rather know I may have a transmission issue in the future than a disintegrating frame or an airbag bomb that can't be fixed until some unspecified time in the future.

Again, I have had good luck with almost all of my vehicles and most people do. So, I just buy what I like at the time and if it turns out to be a POS (which I know is unlikely) then I get rid of it. :cheers:

 

[hour]

Ask fellow member [MENTION=101600]hour[/MENTION] how reliable the Ecodiesel is. Ram bought his back. Coolant ended up in areas it wasn't supposed to be.

My brother's friend has one and it has been great. No problems. So hope you don't get one built on Monday or Friday and you may be OK.

Oh yes, you mean that time that my oil cooler failed and allowed my coolant and oil to mix. The time that my truck spent more time in the shop between January of 2016 and November when they bought it back versus in my driveway. The time I was still making $600 car payments on a vehicle that I couldn't drive. The time that Chrysler authorized me to get a rental vehicle (they arranged for a Ram 2500), then decided to NOT reimburse me weeks later despite promising to do so - why else would I have gotten a Ram rental... it was the only way they'd cover the cost-which they bailed on. It cost me almost a grand.

In addition to the thousands I lost over the course of 11 months in side work

That company is a piece of #@^! and I've never met a tent spike I didn't want to put in the stomach of everyone I interacted with from their organization.

6 rounds of flushing the motor with dish soap and everything else didn't get the oil out. New overflow tanks, new coolant lines, everything - still would produce smegma in the overflow after a couple hundred miles. Then they installed a new engine but refused to change the overflow tank for the 4th time - so the new motor, which ran like crap from the start, began smegma-ing up immediately after.

Such idiots.

 

[00Sebby]

Actually, it is.

No matter how nice a truck is, if you can't drive it because it's in the shop all the time then you aren't going to like it. If you can't trust it on a long trip or to get you to work every day, you aren't going to like it. If you can't afford to keep it once the warranty is up because it needs $1000's in repairs every year and yet another transmission, you aren't going to like it. If it leaves you stranded in Podunk with a 30' trailer and three cranky grandkids, you aren't going to like it. If it manages to grenade a $10K high pressure fuel pump because it ingested a little water, you aren't going to like it.

Reliability is the ultimate luxury, which is why I drive a 3rd. gen.

Actually, it isn't.

Only a few people I know have ever had a vehicle that is "in the shop all the time". Are there lemons? Yes. Is every Jeep or Ram or ??? a lemon? No. Very few are. I think almost everyone here is looking at more than reliability for their vehicle choice. Otherwise, we would be singing the praises of 2WD 4Runners vs. 4WD. Or we wouldn't even be here and would be on a Camry or Accord forum instead.

For example, this Miata will probably have some reliability issues but it would be worth it for the 97% of the time it works. But based on the guys I know who own LS-powered Miatas, I bet it will be very reliable.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I agree with most of what you say. But saying Takata airbag issue is not Toyota's fault would imply Toyota is not responsible for the whole vehicle. Therefore, since the W5A580 Jeep Wrangler auto transmission and the NSG 6sp are made by Mercedes and the Grand Cherokee 9sp is made by ZF Friedrichshafen Group, using your logic it is not Jeep's fault. Short of bodies and engines, the OEMs make very little of the components in their vehicles. Interiors come from suppliers like JCI and Lear, differentials from the likes of Dana, transmissions from companies like Aisin and ZF, etc, etc. The only way to be fair in judging quality is to say every manufacturer is responsible for their whole vehicle. After all they chose the suppliers. I'd much rather know I may have a transmission issue in the future than a disintegrating frame or an airbag bomb that can't be fixed until some unspecified time in the future.

Again, I have had good luck with almost all of my vehicles and most people do. So, I just buy what I like at the time and if it turns out to be a POS (which I know is unlikely) then I get rid of it. :cheers:

I don't disagree with you there, but the Takata airbag thing is somewhat unique in that it affects a HUGE swath of automotive manufacturers and not just Toyota; so I suppose it's as much Toyota's issue as it is GM's, Honda's, ect. Where as the ZF 9spd used by the Jeep and Chrysler seem to be more a specific issue to than manufacturer than ZF as a whole. I'm not sure if that made sense?

 

[meRockboost]

Still won't trust a Chrysler product. Unless it's got a cummins and a g56.

Anyone hear about the camshaft issues?

Why New Ecodiesel Owners Need To Beware Of Engine Failure

Guy that reported to my work last week drove down from Alaska. Had to replace the Trans cooler in Texas when it developed a leak. 25k mi and they wouldn't warranty it.

 

[mckennar]

Still won't trust a Chrysler product. Unless it's got a cummins and a g56.

Anyone hear about the camshaft issues?

Why New Ecodiesel Owners Need To Beware Of Engine Failure

Guy that reported to my work last week drove down from Alaska. Had to replace the Trans cooler in Texas when it developed a leak. 25k mi and they wouldn't warranty it.

I've heard of it. There are quite a few mid-high mileage folks on the forums (hotshot drivers, mostly) with ecoboost Rams that have experienced the exact issue you specify.

Doesn't seem to crop up until well over 100k.

Also, someone above mentioned reliability - my in laws have a 2015 Ram 1500 "cowboy cadillac" spec depreciation special and a 2012 Grand Cherokee 4x4 Laredo. Between the two of them there's a shop visit a month, usually for recalls that are too urgent to let wait until the next service appointment.

 

[Scramble]

Looks like Jeep is coming out with a diesel next year. The 3.0L EcoDiesel engine did wonders for the Ram Truck and it may persuade me to end my loyalty to my trusted/dependable 4runner.

Update: EcoDiesel Engine Confirmed - First Look : 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL in Heavy Camouflage

See ya! :ban:uke:

 

[Scramble]

Actually, it isn't.

Only a few people I know have ever had a vehicle that is "in the shop all the time". Are there lemons? Yes. Is every Jeep or Ram or ??? a lemon? No. Very few are. I think almost everyone here is looking at more than reliability for their vehicle choice. Otherwise, we would be singing the praises of 2WD 4Runners vs. 4WD. Or we wouldn't even be here and would be on a Camry or Accord forum instead.

For example, this Miata will probably have some reliability issues but it would be worth it for the 97% of the time it works. But based on the guys I know who own LS-powered Miatas, I bet it will be very reliable.

Actually it is.
My last 3 DD's have been an 01 Corolla, 01 Accord Coupe & 09 Accord Coupe. No problems with any of them.

 

[00Sebby]

Actually it is.
My last 3 DD's have been an 01 Corolla, 01 Accord Coupe & 09 Accord Coupe. No problems with any of them.

Which is what I said. If reliability was everything those are the types of cars we would be driving. But it isn't, so a lot of us choose more interesting modes of transportation, sacrificing a bit (or a lot) of reliability for fun. I bet you are not doing that future TRD supercharger installation to improve reliability, right?

 

[Scramble]

Which is what I said. If reliability was everything those are the types of cars we would be driving. But it isn't, so a lot of us choose more interesting modes of transportation, sacrificing a bit (or a lot) of reliability for fun. I bet you are not doing that future TRD supercharger installation to improve reliability, right?

My 4runner was my DD for 7 years with no problems. Then my commute went from 12 miles one way to 50 miles. Hence the Corolla for MPG's & keeping the mileage down on the T4R. Now it's still a very reliable weekend toy with only 160,000 miles on it. I'd drive it across country without a worry since I'm the original owner & have all of the maintenance up to date...Especially when I get the S/C installed! :first:

(The TRD S/C's do not shorten the life of these motors)

 

[00Sebby]

My 4runner was my DD for 7 years with no problems. Then my commute went from 12 miles one way to 50 miles. Hence the Corolla for MPG's & keeping the mileage down on the T4R. Now it's still a very reliable weekend toy with only 160,000 miles on it. I'd drive it across country without a worry since I'm the original owner & have all of the maintenance up to date...Especially when I get the S/C installed! :first:

(The TRD S/C's do not shorten the life of these motors)

I did the same with most of my Jeeps. They went on long trips to Boston, Florida, out west, etc. I never worried about them even with 100k or more miles on them and never had an issue. That's the only reason for my comments in this thread. The OP mentioned Jeep and the next response was "reliability". As with any vehicle, your experience may vary.

 

[steveni70]

I like to take long trips, with the diesel getting maybe 25-30mph and twice the torque. The 4runner would be just collecting dust. Put it to good use for someone else.

If you like to take long trips you won't like riding in a Wrangler. My wife has a JKU, we always take my 4runner camping.

 

[OffRoadGuy]

If you like to take long trips you won't like riding in a Wrangler. My wife has a JKU, we always take my 4runner camping.

Your 4 gen has a nice ride and so does my 3rd gen, but I think you're missing the point. They are redesigning the Wrangler JK to JL model. Hopefully with the new model being more aerodynamic, more torque at lower rpm, and a lot better mpg. You may get a better ride in the new JL.

As for 3.0L EcoDiesel, its in the Grand Cherokee and Ram Trucks, Fiat has change the Chrysler Company around. Ram trucks has taken a big chunk of market share and Jeeps has kept Chrysler alive. If Toyota doesn't come out with a quality diesel for the US market, then yes, I'll provide you guys with an initial in a year or so.

 

[00Sebby]

If you like to take long trips you won't like riding in a Wrangler. My wife has a JKU, we always take my 4runner camping.

Or you might? :wink2:

This is my Jeep JKU Rubicon on the beach in Florida, at a dealership in Michigan and in Chicago in the winter. It was a great road vehicle, comfortable for 10+ hours at a time.

 

[4x4]

Looks like Jeep is coming out with a diesel next year. The 3.0L EcoDiesel engine did wonders for the Ram Truck and it may persuade me to end my loyalty to my trusted/dependable 4runner.

Update: EcoDiesel Engine Confirmed - First Look : 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL in Heavy Camouflage

I say go for it. Honestly the 4 door Jeep is everything the 4runner SHOULD have evolved into. It's kind of sad what Toyota has done when you think about it.

No more manual transmission. Huge body of sheet metal and body-matched bumpers pushed out at every corner and side. Same factory rear-locker that was innovative back in 1996 - Back when Jeeps had NONE, NOW they have front AND rear. 3rd row seats. It's basically it's evolved into a high-clearance 4x4 minivan. Not meant to offend, just venting..

 

[steveni70]

Your 4 gen has a nice ride and so does my 3rd gen, but I think you're missing the point. They are redesigning the Wrangler JK to JL model. Hopefully with the new model being more aerodynamic, more torque at lower rpm, and a lot better mpg. You may get a better ride in the new JL.

As for 3.0L EcoDiesel, its in the Grand Cherokee and Ram Trucks, Fiat has change the Chrysler Company around. Ram trucks has taken a big chunk of market share and Jeeps has kept Chrysler alive. If Toyota doesn't come out with a quality diesel for the US market, then yes, I'll provide you guys with an initial in a year or so.

I'm sure that engine performs well, but it has had tons of problems, as has the transmission. Maybe some bugs will be worked out by 2018. I wouldn't hold my breath that it will be much of a redesign, it's been pretty similar since the CJ-7. I really wanted to like the Grand Cherokee, but it appears it's just too much tech for Fiat to handle.

On the other hand, maybe I should be holding my breath because the wife says she will never drive anything other than a Wrangler.

 

[OffRoadGuy]

I say go for it. Honestly the 4 door Jeep is everything the 4runner SHOULD have evolved into. It's kind of sad what Toyota has done when you think about it.

You nailed it on the head. 4runner should have evolve like the Jeep. Toyota should have made the 4runner more rugged like the LC70 Series in New Zealand and Australia. Instead they made it more refine for road condition with part time 4wd system. Now they are behind in the diesel engine technology for US market. I just join the Jeep Wrangler Forum.

 

[Tunerpike]

I'm with others in the thread in that reliability isn't everything for everybody.. I would sacrifice some reliability for more performance any day and slap a supercharger on this thing in a heart beat if available.

I run the interstates a lot for my job working out of my vehicle.. This 2016 4Runner Trail is a dog on the interstate, if the sprint booster wasn't available I would have already gotten rid of it. The engine has the power, they just have detuned living shit out of it and the drive by wire throttle system.

Mapping the throttle mostly based off rate of change vs position and not giving you a driver selection mode is ridiculous.

My 02 4Runner was nothing like this, once you got to speed on the interstate you could just rest you foot on the pedal and it would maintain that speed vs the 2016 where you have to give it 3/4 throttle to maintain 70mph..

I'm waiting to see what Nissan does with the Frontier.. To me Nissan is far more performance oriented then Toyota and still has great reliability.

 

[amalik]

I'm with others in the thread in that reliability isn't everything for everybody.. I would sacrifice some reliability for more performance any day and slap a supercharger on this thing in a heart beat if available.

I run the interstates a lot for my job working out of my vehicle.. This 2016 4Runner Trail is a dog on the interstate, if the sprint booster wasn't available I would have already gotten rid of it. The engine has the power, they just have detuned living shit out of it and the drive by wire throttle system.

Mapping the throttle mostly based off rate of change vs position and not giving you a driver selection mode is ridiculous.

My 02 4Runner was nothing like this, once you got to speed on the interstate you could just rest you foot on the pedal and it would maintain that speed vs the 2016 where you have to give it 3/4 throttle to maintain 70mph..

I'm waiting to see what Nissan does with the Frontier.. To me Nissan is far more performance oriented then Toyota and still has great reliability.

[MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] has stated the same exact thing about how Toyota programmed the ECU on the 5th gen. I think in this thread.

Sounds like there really needs to be an Aftermarket for Toyota tuning that doesn't exist. Per BW, tuning for Toyota is cryptic.

 

[GangsterOfLove]

I did the same with most of my Jeeps. They went on long trips to Boston, Florida, out west, etc. I never worried about them even with 100k or more miles on them and never had an issue.

The first 100K is easy for most cars these days. The second 100K sorts a lot of them out but it's more and more common.

But I am a cheap SOB and my truck had 180K on it when I bought it. When I am talking about reliability I'm talking about the third 100K. My two F-350's are doing well so far, 250K on each and one trans/one A/C compressor between them.

We'll see how this Toyota does but so far the outlook is promising. :thumb: