The REAL STORY??????

Register to hide this ad
Serious bruising comin' for Toyota if this proves to be true. Now if it somehow gets definitively proven that they knew this to be the true cause all along... Wow. That would be interesting and could destroy the brand for sure.

Cheers
 
This has been my only explanation all along. I am sure there are some genuine cases caused by the all weather floor mats and the sticky throttle pedal.. but there have always been cases where those two weren't logical explanations so the obvious cuase was electrical.
 
This has been my only explanation all along. I am sure there are some genuine cases caused by the all weather floor mats and the sticky throttle pedal.. but there have always been cases where those two weren't logical explanations so the obvious cuase was electrical.
Agreed. I'm not a mechanic, nor an expert in computers or electronics. However like all of you, I'm a reasonably intelligent person who can think logically. The explanation with the gas pedal sounded silly, and the "it's the customer's fault" bit with the floor mats was downright insulting.

Maybe it's time for Toyota to come clean on this, otherwise they're going to completely destroy whatever credibility they have left.
 
In my opinion, the real problem here is if Toyota knew about the problem and intentionally covered it up to save $$$$. Reminds me of the Ford Pinto debacle from back in the 70's. Only now, things are much different and Toyota will find themselves in quite a pickle

The rest of the story about the true cause of the problem is just for the fanboys to debate back and forth. There is one person here who just doesn't understand that, but I'll refrain from naming him.
 
That guy seems to be pretty sharp to have been able to recreate the problem. Now they need to do the same test and throw the car into neutral with it happening and apply the brake.

I guarantee the brakes will stop the car if the engine is disconnected from the drive train.
 
The rest of the story about the true cause of the problem is just for the fanboys to debate back and forth. There is one person here who just doesn't understand that, but I'll refrain from naming him.

I disagree. As an owner of 2 Toyota vehicles I would really like to know how "at-risk" I am when driving either of them. Not to mention that one of the people that died in San Diego was an acquaintance of mine.
 
I disagree. As an owner of 2 Toyota vehicles I would really like to know how "at-risk" I am when driving either of them. Not to mention that one of the people that died in San Diego was an acquaintance of mine.

Not sure what you disagree with. I said anyone can debate the problem and that's fine. But the real concern for Toyota Motor Corporation (and shareholders) is if Toyota knew about the problem and covered it up just to save money. The mechanical/electrical issues can be debated to death both ways. No matter what though, Toyota loses big time if it turns out this is a big cover-up and it can be proven.
 
That guy seems to be pretty sharp to have been able to recreate the problem. Now they need to do the same test and throw the car into neutral with it happening and apply the brake.

I guarantee the brakes will stop the car if the engine is disconnected from the drive train.

According to a Car and Driver test, a new Camry with the throttle intentionally stuck wide open, was able to stop in just 16 more feet than the same car with the throttle closed. So I doubt both tests are accurate and I put much more faith in engineers at Car and Driver instead of some yahoo at ABC news. Plus it is must more logical that the brakes will still stop a car even at wide open throttle. But of course drivers should also think about putting the trans in neutral if they are really worried about a runaway vehicle.

Read this for Car and Driver test details:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept
 
That guy seems to be pretty sharp to have been able to recreate the problem. Now they need to do the same test and throw the car into neutral with it happening and apply the brake.

I guarantee the brakes will stop the car if the engine is disconnected from the drive train.

Rick maybe I've misread what you're saying. However on prior occasions we've discussed this subject some people make it sound like this it no big deal, you just throw the transmission into N. Sure calmly sitting at our computers with no pressure makes that sound easy. However in the real world when you suddenly go into balls to the wall acceleration with no warning and probably in the middle of traffic things aren't necessarily going to be quite that easy.

Wasn't one of the people who died a current or maybe former CHP officer? Seems like that person would have lots of experience with fast driving, yet he's deceased. Sudden unexplained wild acceleration is a huge problem, and it's unreasonable for us to think everybody can calmly work out their options...while dodging traffic on their metoric rise to 90 MPH.

No offense intended and let me apoligize if I unfairly implied anyone in particular took a point of view they didn't. That being said after the rediculous blaming of floor mats, then swearing there's nothing in the computer to say it's so...Toyota's got some fences to mend with regard to laying the blame on everyone and everything else.
 
Last edited:
Rick maybe I've misread what you're saying. However on prior occasions we've discussed this subject some people make it sound like this it no big deal, you just throw the transmission into N. Sure calmly sitting at our computers with no pressure makes that sound easy. However in the real world when you suddenly go into balls to the wall acceleration with no warning and probably in the middle of traffic things are quite so easy.

Wasn't one of the people who died a current or maybe former CHP officer? Seems like that person would have lots of experience with fast driving, yet he's deceased. Sudden unexplained wild acceleration is a huge problem, and it's unreasonable for us think everybody is going to calmly work out their options, while they're dodging traffic on their metoric way to 90 MPH.

No offense intended and I'm sorry if I unfairly implied anyone in particular took a point of view they didn't. That being said after the rediculous blaming of floor mats, Toyota's got some fences to mend with regard to trying to lay the blame on everyone and everything else.

Maybe its because I've been driving manual trans cars since I was 16 years old, but my first instinct would be to put the vehicle in neutral if the throttle was stuck. Maybe people who don't normally drive manuals wouldn't think that way, but almost every vehicle I've even owned has been stick shift, so its kinda programmed into my head. My 4Runner is a rare vehicle for me since it's an automatic.
 
At the end of the day it's just a car company. They are all the same...the only thing that matters is the bottom line. Sad but true. What they fail to miss is that the short sightedness of cost cutting and potential lack of honesty is not worth it in the long run.

I really hope for them as a company that they come out on top of this mess but if it is proven they are knowingly letting people die then let them stew in their mess. Maybe they will learn a hard lesson and continue improving their lineup instead of resting on their laurels and letting the brand slip...

Not sure if I could any longer support a company that knowingly did such a thing. Integrity matters in life...at least to me...

Cheers
 
Wasn't one of the people who died a current or maybe former CHP officer? Seems like that person would have lots of experience with fast driving, yet he's deceased. Sudden unexplained wild acceleration is a huge problem, and it's unreasonable for us to think everybody can calmly work out their options...while dodging traffic on their metoric rise to 90 MPH.
In that case, there were actually two sets of floor mats in the car, one on top of the other, and the top one was not secured. A previous driver of that particular loaner car had complained to the dealer that the floor mats got stuck under the accelerator pedal. So in that case, I do think it was an issue of pedal entrapment. It is tragic that the CHP officer didn't think to put it in neutral, but people often don't think clearly when they are panicked, and that wasn't his car, so he wasn't familiar with it. He was trying to turn off the engine, but it had keyless ignition, and didn't know that you have to push the start/stop button continuously for 3 seconds to turn it off.

That being said after the rediculous blaming of floor mats, then swearing there's nothing in the computer to say it's so...Toyota's got some fences to mend with regard to laying the blame on everyone and everything else.
One big problem that I have with Toyota is that they first came out and said the only problem was pedal entrapment (floor mats and pedal shape), but they already knew that they had problems with the CTS pedal assemblies. In other words, Toyota lied.

While I suspect there is a transient electrical problem that Toyota has been unable to duplicate, I am also skeptical of the demonstration that was done by ABC. That professor works as an expert witness for plaintiff attorneys, and he had to modify the computer to get it to do that. The TV news industry has a bad habit of making things up, as pointed out by John McElroy:

Network television has a history of producing fraudulent reports when it comes to automotive safety. And ABC News could be continuing that tradition. More after the break.

As we reported at the top of the show, last night ABC News ran a report showing how a college professor had rigged up a Toyota Avalon so he could induce a short that would cause unintended acceleration. ABC News had no input or rebuttal from Toyota. It left their side out altogether. That alone should make you suspicious.

We’ve seen instances in the past when investigative reports from network television ginned up tests that looked damning, but later turned out to be fraudulent. 60 Minutes on CBS famously found some automotive expert who could cause an Audi to experience unintended acceleration. But he had to disassemble the transmission and weld parts shut to make it happen—something that would never occur on its own in the real world.

The news program Dateline on NBC even more famously rigged up a Chevy pickup with explosives to make it “blow up real good” in front of the cameras. GM hired investigators who ultimately found that the Dateline test was nothing but a fraud.

Last night, ABC also featured Sean Kane of Safety Research and Strategies, on its report of the Avalon’s unintended acceleration. He was presented as a safety advocate, but Mr. Kane makes his living by selling data and information to plaintiff attorneys, the very people who are going to try and make themselves fabulously wealthy suing Toyota. Sean Kane has a vested interest in seeing Toyota sued, but ABC never mentioned that.

It could turn out that Toyota does indeed have an electronics problem. But don’t jump to conclusions based on last night’s report from ABC News.

Full text here: Episode 334 – ABC Attacks Toyota, Support for Akio Toyoda Weakens, Beware of Network Fraud – Autoline Daily
 
At the end of the day it's just a car company. They are all the same...the only thing that matters is the bottom line. Sad but true. What they fail to miss is that the short sightedness of cost cutting and potential lack of honesty is not worth it in the long run.

I really hope for them as a company that they come out on top of this mess but if it is proven they are knowingly letting people die then let them stew in their mess. Maybe they will learn a hard lesson and continue improving their lineup instead of resting on their laurels and letting the brand slip...

Not sure if I could any longer support a company that knowingly did such a thing. Integrity matters in life...at least to me...

Cheers

I agree. The only problem is that other car companies are similarly guilty. Don't even buy a Ford if you feel strongly about supporting a company that knowingly let people die. Sadly, we may be saying the same thing about Toyota once the dust settles.
 
Last edited:

For what it's worth, the "expert" in the ABC report, D. Gilbert has a BS and MS in Industrial Arts Education (that's a teaching degree). I have seen and heard several erroneous (most likely the ol' cut and paste method of journalism were everybody copies the wrong info off each other) reports stating that he had PhD in "electrical engineering/engineering/industrial design etc". They did get the ASE certification right, however.

I'm not discounting the fact that he has significant automotive expertise, but the media reports I've seen act like he invented the light bulb.
 
For what it's worth, the "expert" in the ABC report, D. Gilbert has a BS and MS in Industrial Arts Education (that's a teaching degree). I have seen and heard several erroneous (most likely the ol' cut and paste method of journalism were everybody copies the wrong info off each other) reports stating that he had PhD in "electrical engineering/engineering/industrial design etc". They did get the ASE certification right, however.

I'm not discounting the fact that he has significant automotive expertise, but the media reports I've seen act like he invented the light bulb.
In addition, as someone who grew up in IL, Southern Illinois University is not exactly where I would go looking for an automotive design expert.
 
While I suspect there is a transient electrical problem that Toyota has been unable to duplicate, I am also skeptical of the demonstration that was done by ABC. That professor works as an expert witness for plaintiff attorneys, and he had to modify the computer to get it to do that. The TV news industry has a bad habit of making things up, as pointed out by John McElroy:



Full text here: Episode 334 – ABC Attacks Toyota, Support for Akio Toyoda Weakens, Beware of Network Fraud – Autoline Daily

EXACTLY. It is ridiculous that these news agencies can drag a company through the mud without presenting both side of the story and by using people who are known to have questionable backgrounds. Personally, I don't believe that ABC news story at all. I think it was completely biased and certain parts were just flat out wrong.
 
I agree. The only problem is that other car companies are similarly guilty. Don't even buy a Ford if you feel strongly about supporting a company that knowingly let me die. Sadly, we may be saying the same thing about Toyota once the dust settles.

LOL....guess I'm slightly hipocritical...we just bought a volvo...which is owned by ford :-)
 
While I suspect there is a transient electrical problem that Toyota has been unable to duplicate, I am also skeptical of the demonstration that was done by ABC. That professor works as an expert witness for plaintiff attorneys, and he had to modify the computer to get it to do that. The TV news industry has a bad habit of making things up, as pointed out by John McElroy:

Thanks for some good information 1911. At the end of the day there are two things (besides the nonsense blaming of floor mats) that stand out:

1. The article linked in the post initiating this thread listed the statistic that MORE THAN 70% of the complaints to Toyota about unintended acceleration were not related to the companies floor mat or accelerator pedal recalls. So Toyota blamed 100% of the problem on two things, but only "fixed" less than 30% of them?? What does that tell you about the validity of the "explanation?"

2. Even if the professor jerry rigged the test as some people are implying, here's the scary part. The ECU didn't record the out of control acceleration anyway. Again maybe my lack of electrical background means I've missed the obvious. However if what we saw wasn't recorded in the car's computer as an error; that means all the denial from Toyota that incidents couldn't have happened as described because there was no error code, is so much B.S.
 
Last edited:

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,311
Messages
3,554,082
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top