MTD
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That doesn't have what we need. Let me do a little research. If I can find the alloy Toyota uses we can look that up on matweb
The Springs Thread
- Thread starter D Farms
- Start date
ShooterMcGavin
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I believe the steel temper also plays into the spring-rate. When people use a torch to cut their springs, to lower their car (the ghetto way), the spring is re-tempered and spring-rate typically increases. I think there is more to spring-rate science than just "it's type ABC steel with XYZ dimensions". That's just my backwoods logic here, NOT coming from research. Take it with a grain of salt. If anyone else knows whether that is right or wrong, feel free to back me up or tear me down. Don't be gentle, I can handle the truth
MTD
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Yep your right because your modulus will change when the metal is tempered. But unless people are baking their springs in a furnace the modulus will be spot onto whatever the alloy is.I believe the steel temper also plays into the spring rate. When people use a torch to cut their springs, to lower their car (the ghetto way), the spring is re-tempered and spring-rate typically increases. I think there is more to spring-rate science than just "it's type ABC steel with XYZ dimensions". That's just my backwoods logic here, not going from research. Take it with a grain of salt. If anyone else knows whether that is right or wrong, feel free to back me up or tear me down. Don't be gentle, I can handle the truth
ShooterMcGavin
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D Farms
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That's not exactly what I was understanding from the bit of research I've done. From what I understand, the tempering only allows the spring to return back to its original length after it has been compressed. The reason the spring rate goes up is because there are less coils, and less coils means a higher spring rate. From what I've been reading all steel has about the same modulus of rigidity, which is about 11.25x10^6.
Read this and tell me what you think.
Suspension Spring Specialist, Inc.
Also we could just use weights and see what the sprint rate is based on that, and then use that to determine the modulus of rigidity.
Read this and tell me what you think.
Suspension Spring Specialist, Inc.
Also we could just use weights and see what the sprint rate is based on that, and then use that to determine the modulus of rigidity.
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MTD
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Well tempering is just one way to change the properties of metal, typically it is done post production. So basically temper is not a quantifyable deal it is just a technique to increase the toughness (yep that is a technical term) of the steel.
ShooterMcGavin
New member
That's good info, but I don't know if that answered my question though. If XYZ steel is being used for a spring... Company A builds a spring for Toyota. Company B builds a spring for Honda. Same dimensions, same steel. Is it guaranteed that the temper will be done the same way for each spring?
D Farms
New member
Correct me if im wrong, but I would think that the tempering would only make the spring last longer by preventing it from sagging, what I mean by that is the tempering allows the spring to.maintain it's free length over time and use.
I'm going to try to make an analogy that will explain this. Imagine you have two springs, they both have a spring rate of 100lbs/in. The first spring is tempered sprING steel the second is fully annealed spring steel. you put 100 lbs on both springs. The first spring compresses 1 inch. The second spring compresses more than one inch. You remove the weights, the first spring instantly returns back to its original height. The second spring doesn't return to the original height because the amount of force exerted on the spring has deformed it permanently(there is a material engineering term for this but I forgot it). Basically the force of the weight deformed the spring and was able to compress it more than the tempered spring, because the spring relaxed and was no longer pushing back. The tempering has simply increased the amount of force the spring can take before it deforms permanently. In physics calculations it is assumed that it's the spring does not permanently deform at all during compression. This is why I believe the temper of the material has no effect on the rigidity modulus. Also it seems like all steel is around 11.25x10^6 so it shouldn't really matter.
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ShooterMcGavin
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I'm not the right one to ask on this issue. I think I'm trying to find out that same answer myself
MTD
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That is why quality engineers get paid the big bucks. If a company can't produce it to spec they won't be a OEM for long... If it is designated to be that material it will be.
Yes and no, but it fundamentally changes the material. Tempering is one of the many processes needed to make spring steel though. Tempering more though doesn't mean it will be better. It will increase the rate that sag/cyclic fatigue happens.
MTD
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The term is yielding.
And what makes is a spring is that it doesn't yield under tension. If it does it isnt a spring.
We can talk more tomorrow its Friday and I'm 4 in now lol. Tgif gents!
I bought some 2004 tundra double cab trd off road shocks/struts and springs. It turns out that they are not the yellow/yellow and yellow/blue (4x4 4wd trd offroad package). They are orange/red and orange/orange (I'm guessing because of 2wd).
My question is, how much more different in height are they compared to one another? And the spring rate? I just bought a 2002 4Runner and I would like to lift it to clear 285/75/16 with bilstein 5100 (tundras)
My question is, how much more different in height are they compared to one another? And the spring rate? I just bought a 2002 4Runner and I would like to lift it to clear 285/75/16 with bilstein 5100 (tundras)
