Thinking of upgrading a 2015 Trail Premium to a 2024 TRD Off Road Premium

[arouth]

I’ve read on here that the intangible improvements of the newest 4Runners make them feel like a different vehicle to the older ones.

I have a 2015 Trail Premium that I’m steadily updating, but just wondering if it might be a better idea to just buy a new one. The creature comforts being a major factor. The push button start, blind spot monitoring, heated steering wheel (I live in Chicago and it’s cold!). I know the 6th gen is coming out soon but I wouldn’t want to buy a first year car since there are usually production issues to work out.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Not going to comment on the intangible improvements since my ‘21 is my first 4Runner.

However, if you are in a position to buy, don’t want the 6th gen, and can get a solid deal on a ‘24 then I would recommend doing it. You will acquire a 9 year newer vehicle that retains the quality and reliability you are accustomed to. It will also buy you plenty of time to decide on 6th gen many years from now.

If they still offered the Nightshade, for the same reasons above I would even consider trading in for a ‘24. I can’t stand the chrome and wood trim on the limited.

 

[osugsxr]

I’ve read on here that the intangible improvements of the newest 4Runners make them feel like a different vehicle to the older ones.

I have a 2015 Trail Premium that I’m steadily updating, but just wondering if it might be a better idea to just buy a new one. The creature comforts being a major factor. The push button start, blind spot monitoring, heated steering wheel (I live in Chicago and it’s cold!). I know the 6th gen is coming out soon but I wouldn’t want to buy a first year car since there are usually production issues to work out.

its your decision....factors will vary from person to person

If not wanting a 6th gen then do it, there are multiple dealers in the midwest marking them down 2-4k off msrp. TIV should still be pretty solid too. You know the 4runner already and it will last till whenever you want to get rid of it.

Upgrading isnt bad if you plan to keep it long term. I installed the OEM led headlights and OEM carplay radio. Both of these were a nice upgrade and made the car "some what modern".

 

[Captain Spalding]

[MENTION=609]arouth[/MENTION]: how many miles are on your 2015? Have you been fastidious with the maintenance?

 

[5Sport]

I went from a 2017 to a 2021 and couldn't be happier. If you have the old style Trail roof bars, I'd take it with you. I bought a set for my 2017 and just put it on my 2021. I really like the look. Just my .02

 

[arouth]

[MENTION=609]arouth[/MENTION]: how many miles are on your 2015? Have you been fastidious with the maintenance?

As of now about 72,000 and yes kept up with the maintenance.

As of now I'm thinking of just trying to ad some aftermarket items to my 2015 4Runner Trail Premium and see if I can modernize it and bring some of the features the newer 4Runners have to my older one.

 

[Captain Spalding]

If the modern conveniences are important to you I would wait. I suspect the 6th Gen will be much more modern than a late model 5th gen, which, in spite of its upgrades, still lags behind other current vehicles. I think there’s a possibility if you get a 5th gen now, after the 6th gen comes out you might find you prefer a 6th gen and regret having bought the new 5th gen.

 

[8086bruce]

When looking at the pricing of the new Land Cruiser no drought you will pay for the new tech. The T4R looks like a bargain compared to a new Taco or LC.

 

[thatoneguy]

When looking at the pricing of the new Land Cruiser no drought you will pay for the new tech. The T4R looks like a bargain compared to a new Taco or LC.

The Land Cruiser is intended to be positioned higher than the 4Runner. They all come with full-time 4WD and a rear locker; it's not even possible to get both of those at the same time in the 5th gen.

Can't say I'd agree on the Taco v. 4Runner pricing statement. The Taco has added a lot of luxury options above what a 4Runner currently offers. You can get the pricing crazy stacking options packages on a Tacoma, but you can do the same to a 4Runner. You can slap $6k of crap on top of a 4Runner TRD ORP. My no options '23 ORP felt very expensive for what it was buying it one year ago. $47k...

But for context,

2024 Tacoma SR5 4WD: $41k
2024 4Runner SR5 4WD: $44k
2024 Tacoma Limited 4WD: $51k
2024 4Runner Limited (hybrid) 4WD: $51k

Considering the Tacoma has far, far more modern tech, 4Runner seems to be the more expensive pricing. Lots of gas money to be saved over the years in a new Tacoma compared to a 4Runner.

What I will grant is that 4Runners are currently actually selling $2-4k below MSRP (no surprise), and Tacomas are selling at sticker.

 

[chrisridebike8]

I would just do some updates to the one you have. CarTrimHome has a heated wheel you can add. People are always selling OEM LED headlights for a couple hundred dollars. A new headunit will give you carplay. And while I love having keyless go, I would not pay thousands for it. For what they would give you in trade and what you will likely pay for the 2024, you might be able to keep your 4R, update it, and also get a used corolla for puttering around and have heated seats and keyless go in that. It's your money though and do what makes you happy.

 

[Jetboy]

FWIW - I would not do anything until you've had a chance to test drive a new Tacoma. I think it's basically a sure bet that the next 4R will be very similar to the 2024 tacoma. There's no reason to jump right now when it's so close to the new model and you can test drive a Tacoma and see how you like the new powertrain.

For me - I'd wait. I think the 6th gen 4R will have significant drivability upgrades from the new engine and transmission. And you'll get a bunch of interior updates and probably 7mpg improvement. Possibly as important as anything else to me - they increased OEM caster to around 5.5* instead of 3* and significantly reduced the kingpin offset. That translates to a lot nicer driving experience with better lane tracking and less steering effort/feedback.

Good luck with whatever you choose. I would at least test drive the new one before making a decision.

 

[cheeser]

I wanted to stay with the 5th gen for now, and sold my 2016 for a 2023 due to miles on the 2016. I was happy with a few electronic upgrades, in addition to a fresh set of miles.

 

[jaredhouck]

I'm with you Arouth. Had a heavily modded 15 Limited with 150k miles. Bought a used 21 ORP for the updated headlights, updated radio/carplay, and the rear locker. Moved all the mods over from the 15 and restored it back to mostly stock. Kept the 15 for my daughter for college. I refuse to buy the first year or two of any vehicle, but imagine we'll grab a 6th Gen 3-4 years into production.

 

[arouth]

Thank you for all the advice. I decided to wait on the next 4Runner and just keep doing updates on my current 4Runner in the meantime.

If I could do it again though in 2020 when I bought instead of going used I should have just bought a new one with all the updated features. I’m steadily updating mine though as time goes by.

 

[AZ Craig]

Thank you for all the advice. I decided to wait on the next 4Runner and just keep doing updates on my current 4Runner in the meantime.

If I could do it again though in 2020 when I bought instead of going used I should have just bought a new one with all the updated features. I’m steadily updating mine though as time goes by.

This is a good way to look at it. The 2020 really was a massive upgrade when they brought in the new infotainment system along with TSS (and some other stuff depending on vehicle trim). Changes since they have been more incremental I'd say (LED headlights, blind spot monitor, etc.).

A 2025 or 2026 model year vehicle could be such a big step forward from a 2024 4Runner, financially waiting at this point if you can is probably the best step.

 

[thatoneguy]

A 2025 or 2026 model year vehicle could be such a big step forward from a 2024 4Runner, financially waiting at this point if you can is probably the best step.

I'm tempted to call this a large understatement, it will definitely be a huge step forward. The 5th gen is very antiquated, this is a 2005 powertrain that had updates to the 4.0L V6 in 2010. Best I can tell, it's the last 5-speed automatic sold in the US new. The "new" 2020+ infotainment screen looks like it's from 2015, and I think it is.

The 5th gen earned its great reputation, but even in 2010 with that new body it was running several year old powertrains that it kept. The next generation is comparatively going to be a quantum leap forward, in my opinion. 17mpg with a modest amount of 4400RPM torque, going through five forward gears? That's going to be replaced with 23mpg with 50% more torque at less than half the RPM going through eight gears. Crash structure should be dramatically safer as well, and it will be a dramatically more rigid vehicle. 15 years is a long time.

I do love the 5th gen, but as has been said, "it's well past its 'sell by' date".

 

[Captain Spalding]

The 5th gen earned its great reputation, but even in 2010 with that new body it was running several year old powertrains that it kept. The next generation is comparatively going to be a quantum leap forward, in my opinion. 17mpg with a modest amount of 4400RPM torque, going through five forward gears? That's going to be replaced with 23mpg with 50% more torque at less than half the RPM going through eight gears. Crash structure should be dramatically safer as well, and it will be a dramatically more rigid vehicle. 15 years is a long time.

Not contradicting you on the math, but it’s been my observation over the years that among off road vehicles, advances in efficiency come at the expense of capability and reliability. Maybe a quantum leap sideways.

 

[thatoneguy]

Not contradicting you on the math, but it’s been my observation over the years that among off road vehicles, advances in efficiency come at the expense of capability and reliability. Maybe a quantum leap sideways.

I think that depends. The Toyota 4.0L V6 is a more complicated engine than their older 3.0L V6, and it's far more efficient, powerful, and reliable. Overhead cam engines seem more complex than OHV, and they don't seem to have caused any reliability harm.

Jeep has had problems with their 3.6L V6 since it came out, and weirdly enough, them shoving a 2.0L turbo 4cyl as an option into the Wranglers seemed to improved efficiency, power, and crucially reliability. Their 8-speed automatic is more reliable than their older 5-speed was.

Sometimes it appears possible to have your cake and eat it too. I'm wary of many brands being capable of producing a reliable hybrid, but not Toyota, they're quite proven.

I'm not sure how a more powerful engine and more transmission gears would make a 4Runner less capable offroad. Thanks to that 5-speed with a tall first gear, a 5th gen's crawl ratio is anything but impressive; 8-speed should help. I've been in situations where an engine bogging down and falling off the powerband would be dangerous, which shouldn't be a concern in an engine that slings out 450+ lb-ft of torque below 2000RPM.

We'll see. I doubt that Toyota's reliability reputation will be harmed by the new corporate powertrains. They seem to have worked hard on them, and are trusting them in many big-name nameplates. They'd be foolish to allow themselves to screw it up here. I expect them to prove very reliable by the third model year or earlier, maybe there will be early teething issues, maybe not.

 

[Captain Spalding]

Overhead cam engines seem more complex than OHV, and they don't seem to have caused any reliability harm.

Overhead cam engines are simpler, especially if the cylinders are inline.

I'm not sure how a more powerful engine and more transmission gears would make a 4Runner less capable offroad.

The more powerful engine in question is a turbocharged 4. Thats a high stress job. Generally speaking, and all other things being equal, a smaller turbocharged engine will be less reliable and shorter-lived than a larger normally aspirated one. Reasonable men can agree to disagree on that, but there it is.

You’d think that with the release of every new model a car company would get better and better at its craft. But that’s often not the case, is it? Hence the adage “they don’t make them like they used to.”

I doubt that Toyota's reliability reputation will be harmed by the new corporate powertrains.

Toyota’s reputation is well deserved. And when compared to other marques they come out on top reliability wise. But we’re not comparing the 6th Gen 4Runner to other marques. We’re comparing it to the 5th Gen. The most reliable model made by the company that makes the most reliable cars. (Have you ever seen the Car Care Nut’s videos of the 5th Gen 4Runner? They are a glowing tribute to the 5th gen’s no-compromise design. Stirring. They will bring a tear to your eye.)

Don’t misunderstand me. I’m rooting for the 6th Gen to be an improvement. A success. I want you to be right. I just think the odds are against it. Certainly, though, the 6th Gen will be superior in terms of the features that [MENTION=609]arouth[/MENTION] wants.

When I was just a lad, between curses at the hydro-electric transmission in the 1937 Cord he was working on my Daddy told me “Son, always remember: complexity is the enemy of reliability.” (It may not have happened exactly like that, but that’s the way I remember it.)

 

[fkheath]

Generally speaking, and all other things being equal, a smaller turbocharged engine will be less reliable and shorter-lived than a larger normally aspirated one. Reasonable men can agree to disagree on that, but there it is.

There is an old, old, saying: The only substitute for cubic inches is cubic dollars.