ThirstyTurtle's 3rd Gen Build Thread

[thirstyturtle]

How the hell did you do that with your head?

As for the ride, how many miles on the 5100's? How many miles on the tires and what size are they?

Haha I didn't make the didn't with my head. I hit my head on the edge of the liftgate and got really mad and hit the outside of the tailgate with my hand.

The 5100's and tires both have about 8k miles on them. The tires are P265/70-R17 Nitto Terra Grapplers.

You know the rear OME 891s are supposed to be for extra weight which may add to the rough ride so I added 160lbs of water softener salt to the back for a short term aid and look how much it sags:

I haven't measured but it seems like well over an inch of sag which seems extreme for that amount of weight on those coils.

 

[BoostedRNR]

I just installed the 891's in the rear of mine and it rides SO much better than my wife's stock 4runner. Does it feel like the rear end is solid (rough over bumps) or does it wonder (hard to keep in a straight line)? Maybe more caster would help if that's the problem.

 

[thirstyturtle]

I just installed the 891's in the rear of mine and it rides SO much better than my wife's stock 4runner. Does it feel like the rear end is solid (rough over bumps) or does it wonder (hard to keep in a straight line)? Maybe more caster would help if that's the problem.

Hmmm wells that's interesting. I assume even the stock 3rd gen isn't as comfortable as a 4th gen but I'm surprised that you say a lifted 3rd gen is more comfortable than your wife's stock one.

Could it be both? I think it feels "hard" like there's no give in the coils but it also wanders a little bit (hard to keep in a straight line).

I'm not certain if it's the front or rear or both that's contributing to the harsh ride but it seems "jerky" like you're riding on bricks instead of springs. That's a bit exaggerated but it's bad enough that my wife is pretty upset about it as she didn't get to test drive it and it's too hard for her liking.

I need to do something about it or I'll be in trouble. I lowered the tires from 35psi to 30psi and put 160lbs of salt in the trunk, she hasn't driven it since then but I hope it helps.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Haha I didn't make the didn't with my head. I hit my head on the edge of the liftgate and got really mad and hit the outside of the tailgate with my hand.

Sounds like you and your 4runner have an abusive relationship. I would suggest counseling. or steel bumpers

 

[thirstyturtle]

Sounds like you and your 4runner have an abusive relationship. I would suggest counseling. or steel bumpers

Haha, steel bumpers and I'd have a broken hand.

It's a bit of a love/hate relationship right now since my wife HATES the ride.

She said the lower tire pressure and weight in the trunk didn't help. She said "I feel like it's going to tip over sometimes" :-(

I'm not sure what to do, she's like legitimately unhappy. She was SO happy when she saw it and looked it over and cranked it up but once she drove it she's been very sad about it.

 

[BoostedRNR]

That is really strange. I'm not running a sway bar up front and that contributes to a little body roll, but I feel completely safe driving it at freeway speeds. I would definitely have a shop look at the alignment. I am running aftermarket upper control arms and about 4° of caster. The thing feels awesome on the street, minus the massive lack of power. I have driven my friends 4th gen and I don't feel like the wife's stock drives much different.

 

[thirstyturtle]

That is really strange. I'm not running a sway bar up front and that contributes to a little body roll, but I feel completely safe driving it at freeway speeds. I would definitely have a shop look at the alignment. I am running aftermarket upper control arms and about 4° of caster. The thing feels awesome on the street, minus the massive lack of power. I have driven my friends 4th gen and I don't feel like the wife's stock drives much different.

Well it really doesn't wander much and she hasn't complained about that all but I noticed it a bit on my journey bringing it home.

The main thing she's complaining about is the stiff, jerky ride.

It was aligned last week so that's not an issue, although I assume that would only affect the "wandering" and not the ride quality around town.

Think going lower on the tire pressure could help? How low can I go safely? I could bump it up if we took a road trip.

 

[BoostedRNR]

Well it really doesn't wander much and she hasn't complained about that all but I noticed it a bit on my journey bringing it home.

The main thing she's complaining about is the stiff, jerky ride.

It was aligned last week so that's not an issue, although I assume that would only affect the "wandering" and not the ride quality around town.

Think going lower on the tire pressure could help? How low can I go safely? I could bump it up if we took a road trip.

I really don't see tire pressure affecting much. I run 50 lbs in my wife's when we hit the highway, and drop them to 30 around town. I can't tell a handling difference, but it sure rides a little stiffer. I only vary pressures for fuel mileage purposes, that and the e-rated tires just plain suck at 50 lbs.

 

[thirstyturtle]

I really don't see tire pressure affecting much. I run 50 lbs in my wife's when we hit the highway, and drop them to 30 around town. I can't tell a handling difference, but it sure rides a little stiffer. I only vary pressures for fuel mileage purposes, that and the e-rated tires just plain suck at 50 lbs.

Ya it's just wishful thinking I guess because it's free. She said she couldn't tell a difference between 35psi and 30psi.

I'm just not sure what to do...part of the problem is she's coming from a very comfortable and soft-riding Acura 3.2TL. Maybe she'll get used to it a bit...she's really hashing my "new car" feeling because her "new car" happiness isn't as awesome as it was at first.

 

[BoostedRNR]

Ya it's just wishful thinking I guess because it's free. She said she couldn't tell a difference between 35psi and 30psi.

I'm just not sure what to do...part of the problem is she's coming from a very comfortable and soft-riding Acura 3.2TL. Maybe she'll get used to it a bit...she's really hashing my "new car" feeling because her "new car" happiness isn't as awesome as it was at first.

Yea, i could see coming from a luxury sedan like that could cause some discomfort driving a older lifted suv. I've drove nothing but older vehicles my entire life, so the 98 is like driving a cadi

 

[1985taylor1925]

If a softer ride quality is your concern, I would just go with a set of new 99 coils with bilsteins or the stock tokicos. The tokicos are good shocks. Im running the Tundra coils with bilsteins up front, and 890s in the rear, and my truck is very stiff in my opinion. 891s are even stiffer than 890s. The stock suspension would probably suit your wife well

 

[thirstyturtle]

If a softer ride quality is your concern, I would just go with a set of new 99 coils with bilsteins or the stock tokicos. The tokicos are good shocks. Im running the Tundra coils with bilsteins up front, and 890s in the rear, and my truck is very stiff in my opinion. 891s are even stiffer than 890s. The stock suspension would probably suit your wife well

Well after doing some "bounce" testing this morning, I've decided that the back is PLUSH compared to the front. I can easily compress and bounce the back end with my body weight but can barely budge the front!

Maybe the front is the problem and not the rear. All I know about the front coils is that they're Toytec and silver. However after some research it seems that these coils come in spring rate ranges from 500lbs to 650lbs...is there anyway to tell which these are? Also, on Tacoma forums I stumbled across some people mentioning adjusting their 5100's, I took a look at mine and don't think they're adjustable (no threads that I can see) but there are little grooved rings towards the lower spring perch, although they're currently above the lower spring perch so even if they are adjustable I think they're currently as soft as possible.

Can I determine what the spring rate is on these front coils? They seem thick to me. If I determine that they're overly stiff, what would be a softer coil just for the front that will still net me a couple inches of lift so my rake isn't insane and my tires don't rub?

EDIT: After checking out Toytec's website, the only coil spring for the front of a 3rd gen 4Runner is listed at 620lb spring rate "for extra weight", so I'm thinking I must have those coils. Seems like maybe I need weaker coils up front. Perhaps the OME 881's? That should be a bit softer since they're supposed to be for stock weight and not extra weight.

 

[Fishwerks]

EDIT: After checking out Toytec's website, the only coil spring for the front of a 3rd gen 4Runner is listed at 620lb spring rate "for extra weight", so I'm thinking I must have those coils. Seems like maybe I need weaker coils up front. Perhaps the OME 881's? That should be a bit softer since they're supposed to be for stock weight and not extra weight.

If you get the Toytec coilovers you can get spring rates as low as 500# which might do the trick. And the front end will never be as soft as the back end.

Edit: The 5100s you have are probably adjustable, they just use a c-clip and adjust the height that way instead of the threaded body like the Toytec coilovers have.

 

[thirstyturtle]

If you get the Toytec coilovers you can get spring rates as low as 500# which might do the trick. And the front end will never be as soft as the back end.

Edit: The 5100s you have are probably adjustable, they just use a c-clip and adjust the height that way instead of the threaded body like the Toytec coilovers have.

Thanks for the information!

Anyway to know what the spring rate on my existing coils up front is?

On my 5100s, I assume having the clip at the bottom would provide the softest ride and least lift, and placing it on the top would provide the most lift and harshest ride, is that right?

My wife says now that the harshness of the ride isn't as much of an issue (maybe she's gotten used to it) but she feels like the truck is going to tip over. I'm not sure what she means, I asked her if she means in curves, and she said no, she means in a straight line it just feels unstable. I asked her if she means like it's hard to keep in a straight line and she said no that's not what she means. I'm not sure what the heck she means!!!! I'm trying to figure out how to correct the problem but she's not very good at explaining the problem. She said it doesn't feel like it has anything to do with the shocks or springs. Maybe it's because I lowered the tire pressure from 35psi to 30psi? I might try pumping them back up. I haven't driven the truck since Sunday or since I added weight to the back and deflated the tires. I'll take it for a drive tonight to run some errands and see what I think...

Thanks for all the help, fellas!

 

[thirstyturtle]

Well after some more time with the truck it seems that my wife has gotten used to the ride and says it's really not that big of a deal, just took some adjustment. That being said, I spoke with the previous owner and found out that the Toytec coils he put up front are the 620lb ones which are meant to support like 150lb of additional weight in the front. I may look into the softer 500lb coils if she complains anymore of the ride, although I don't look forward to swapping coils and compressing those huge things with the rental spring compressors from Advance Auto Parts, makes me nervous!

On a happy note, I just found out that the spark plugs were replaced just 10k miles ago (I assumed they were original as I had no record indicating otherwise) so that saves me some time and money as I was planning on replacing them when doing the valve cover gasket job.

 

[1985taylor1925]

Well after some more time with the truck it seems that my wife has gotten used to the ride and says it's really not that big of a deal, just took some adjustment. That being said, I spoke with the previous owner and found out that the Toytec coils he put up front are the 620lb ones which are meant to support like 150lb of additional weight in the front. I may look into the softer 500lb coils if she complains anymore of the ride, although I don't look forward to swapping coils and compressing those huge things with the rental spring compressors from Advance Auto Parts, makes me nervous!

On a happy note, I just found out that the spark plugs were replaced just 10k miles ago (I assumed they were original as I had no record indicating otherwise) so that saves me some time and money as I was planning on replacing them when doing the valve cover gasket job.

Compressing the coils isn't that bad. Ive done it 4 times now with a kit I bought. You just have be careful and take your time. I would recommend the 500lb rated coils. Im sure that would really help the ride. You can also do the TRD coil lift. Or the 99 coils up front with a one inch spacer. That would probably produce the smoothest ride.

As for what your wife is talking about . . . maybe partly tire pressure. Maybe partly just adjusting to riding in a taller vehicle. If it was wandering than I would say alignment or steering rack. The steering racks in 3rd gens are notorious for being sloppy. I think you mentioned this before, but are you running without one or both of your sway bars?

 

[thirstyturtle]

Compressing the coils isn't that bad. Ive done it 4 times now with a kit I bought. You just have be careful and take your time. I would recommend the 500lb rated coils. Im sure that would really help the ride. You can also do the TRD coil lift. Or the 99 coils up front with a one inch spacer. That would probably produce the smoothest ride.

As for what your wife is talking about . . . maybe partly tire pressure. Maybe partly just adjusting to riding in a taller vehicle. If it was wandering than I would say alignment or steering rack. The steering racks in 3rd gens are notorious for being sloppy. I think you mentioned this before, but are you running without one or both of your sway bars?

I have both sway bars installed and brand new sway bar end links all around. Fresh alignment a couple weeks ago.

Luckily she's completely fine with the ride now after adjusting.

However, she doesn't like (and neither do I) that the rear of the vehicle sits lower than the front. Just barely, in fact when measured from pavement to fender they're identical but due to the design it looks lower in the back. The easiest thing would be a spacer in the back but I'd really rather lower the front.

What's a good lift that's about an inch shorter than the Toytec front coils?

 

[1985taylor1925]

I have both sway bars installed and brand new sway bar end links all around. Fresh alignment a couple weeks ago.

Luckily she's completely fine with the ride now after adjusting.

However, she doesn't like (and neither do I) that the rear of the vehicle sits lower than the front. Just barely, in fact when measured from pavement to fender they're identical but due to the design it looks lower in the back. The easiest thing would be a spacer in the back but I'd really rather lower the front.

What's a good lift that's about an inch shorter than the Toytec front coils?

You should be able to adjust the toytecs to lower the front. And Im fairly certain that they go from stock height to 3" lift, so getting them lower than the rear shouldn't be difficult.

 

[thirstyturtle]

You should be able to adjust the toytecs to lower the front. And Im fairly certain that they go from stock height to 3" lift, so getting them lower than the rear shouldn't be difficult.

I don't have the Toytec coilovers, just the lift springs on Bilstein 5100's, don't think they're adjustable.

 

[thirstyturtle]

Well drove the truck to work yesterday so I could get it inspected and registered. When I returned home I got underneath it to spray the O2 sensor bolts with PB blaster and found that my CV boot had exploded! Grease was flung everywhere under the car:

I went and got a replacement at Autozone. Axle removed:

Differential leaking after axle removal:

Once I got everything removed it became apparent that the boot they gave me was a universal fit and wouldn't fit my axle correctly. I called it a night and went to Toyota this morning and got the right boot kit. Going to tackle it now, hopefully before my in-laws get here because they really wanted to be driven on the beach this weekend!