This isn't looking good for Toyota...

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Happened to my mom in her 04 land cruiser. Approaching a stop sign the car suddenly started accelerating at WOT. She said she had to slam on the breaks to stop the car from moving. It all of a sudden went back to normal and everything was fine.

Hasnt happened since and there were no logs in any of the cars computers.
 
I think this whole thing is pure BS. Reason being is that there's not a vehicle on the road today that can overpower it's braking system. All of those people who claim that they were slamming on the brakes as hard as they could, but the car kept going are full of crap. Go out and try it with your own car and you'll see that the car will stop.

This reminds me of the same BS that Audi went through years ago with the whole "unintended acceleration" thing. It almost put Audi out of business....yet the problem was the morons behind the wheel, not a defect with the vehicles. These idiots were swearing that they were practically standing on the brake pedal and the vehicle kept going faster and faster. Of course they were really standing on the accelerator pedal and just thinking they were on the brake pedal. Examination of the vehicles afterwards found nothing defective on the vehicles, yet it still became big news as the media swarmed like bees on the story.

I think Toyota has a challenge on their hands to keep this from becoming the new Audi story. Even if those all-weather mats can make the accelerator pedal stick (which I believe is possible), there are still several ways to slow the vehicle. The driver can use the brakes, put the transmission in neutral, use the e-brake, turn off the ignition, just to name a few.
 
Like I said, my mom was able to keep the car from accelerating and actually made it stop with full breaking force. Silly people dont realize they can bump it into neutral as well.
 
i had my throttle stick a few months back as i was approaching a stop sign. so i knocked out of drive and into neutral and then shut the car off to keep the engine from bouncing off the rev limiter. hasn't happened since but thankfully i was on a quieter road with no traffic in front of me or behind me. i can only imagine how stressful it would be on a busy state road or interstate highway. or even downtown in some city
 
eskimochaos said:
Like I said, my mom was able to keep the car from accelerating and actually made it stop with full breaking force. Silly people dont realize they can bump it into neutral as well.
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I'm not saying that it is impossible for a car to accelerate unintentionally, especially with all of the electronic controls on today's cars. I'm just saying that people who claim they couldn't stop the vehicle because the accelerator was wide open are full of crap. For that to happen, it would take two things to go wrong simultaneously: The throttle would have to malfunction (causing it to open and stay open) and the braking system would have to fail completely. Think about that....what are the chances? It's more than likely that driver error causes this type of accident, such as when someone smashes the gas pedal, but thinks they are smashing the brake pedal.
 
Something else that will be interesting is if/when they examine the "black box" on some of these vehicles that have crashed because of this supposed unintended acceleration issue. I don't know exactly which data is recorded, but it will be interesting to see if the brake pedal position data is recorded or not. Imagine if it turns out these cars that crashed didn't even have the brakes applied at all during those last moments before the crash. That type of technology didn't exist back when Audi had the misfortune of having to deal with it's own unintended acceleration problems.
 
ToyTech99 said:
Something else that will be interesting is if/when they examine the "black box" on some of these vehicles that have crashed because of this supposed unintended acceleration issue. I don't know exactly which data is recorded, but it will be interesting to see if the brake pedal position data is recorded or not. Imagine if it turns out these cars that crashed didn't even have the brakes applied at all during those last moments before the crash. That type of technology didn't exist back when Audi had the misfortune of having to deal with it's own unintended acceleration problems.
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ToyTech99,

Glad you brought up the "black box". I've seen the disclosure in the owner's manual about it and it's suppose to record vehicle data of the last 30 or so seconds, but unlike an airplane cockpit data recorder, it doesn't record any conversation.

IIRC, I think disclosure mention some thing about the data won't be given to insurance or authorities after an accident, unless they request for it. It's meant for Toyota's data to design better cars.

Do you know more info about it and if it's on all Toyota models, some, etc.?
 
Uneek said:
ToyTech99,

Glad you brought up the "black box". I've seen the disclosure in the owner's manual about it and it's suppose to record vehicle data of the last 30 or so seconds, but unlike an airplane cockpit data recorder, it doesn't record any conversation.

IIRC, I think disclosure mention some thing about the data won't be given to insurance or authorities after an accident, unless they request for it. It's meant for Toyota's data to design better cars.

Do you know more info about it and if it's on all Toyota models, some, etc.?
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I don't know the exact details, but I know that almost all of the sensor information that can be pulled from a scan tool is constantly recorded on a loop, similar to the black boxes in aircraft. I'm pretty sure that all models have some form of a black box, although the capabilities may vary.

As for insurance companies or law enforcement getting their hands on the information, well, that's already happened for years now. I remember reading a story about a guy who killed a small child in a horrible accident. I think he was a senator or something. He claimed to have been going 30 MPH (or whatever the posted speed limit was on the road) at the time, but the black box in the car told another story...I think it had recorded a vehicle speed of nearly 100 MPH or something ridiculous like that. Again, I don't remember the details, I only remember that the guy was basically busted by the black box data. I think there is cases in the court system right now over who owns that data in the box. If you own the vehicle, do you own the black box and the data contained within it? That should work it's way through the court system as we see more and more of these types of accidents....
 
eskimochaos said:
Like I said, my mom was able to keep the car from accelerating and actually made it stop with full breaking force. Silly people dont realize they can bump it into neutral as well.
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No, that would be stupid people. Unfortunately, this society goes to extreme lengths to coddle stupidity.
 
ToyTech99 said:
I think this whole thing is pure BS. Reason being is that there's not a vehicle on the road today that can overpower it's braking system.
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A guy on another forum tested this in a Lexus (don't have the link handy). Bottom line, at freeway speed, you have one, maybe, two chances to stop the vehicle with WOT before brake fade makes it impossible. If the driver partially slows down a couple of times before realizing the seriousness of the situation, it's too late to use brakes.

Better be familiar with where neutral is on the car you're driving.
 
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JB. said:
A guy on another forum tested this in a Lexus (don't have the link handy). Bottom line, at freeway speed, you have one, maybe, two chances to stop the vehicle with WOT before brake fade makes it impossible. If the driver partially slows down a couple of times before realizing the seriousness of the situation, it's too late to use brakes.

Better be familiar with where neutral is on the car you're driving.
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A couple of things here---

First, that would definitely vary from car to car. Factors such as rotor size, vehicle weight, vehicle speed, etc.. are all factors that have an effect on brake fade.

Second, most vehicles on the roads today can stop repeatedly from freeway speeds without experiencing any serious brake fade. And I'm not talking about performance-oriented vehicles, I'm talking about an average 4-door family sedan. I realize that fighting WOT at freeway speeds will tend to put much more heat into the brakes. But it is beyond me how anyone who experiences a runaway car would not try immediately to stop the car complete by using the brakes.

Third, WOT isn't a factor if the driver simply uses his/her head and puts the transmission into neutral. Or shuts off the ignition.

I think what happens here is that people panic and they don't react the way they should. And I still think a lot of these people who are panicking are confusing the brake pedal with the gas pedal.
 
I find it hard to believe that this is all just operator error. I'm not going to say it's one way or another, but the middle ground is most likely much closer to the truth. An example would be that the vehicle actually does temporarily experience a sudden acceleration which panics the driver, evoking a stomp on the brake pedal. The stomp could easily be misplaced, not entirely on the accelerator, but partially along with the brake. I've done it myself involving a stupid pedestrian and a 3rd gen Camaro. My boots were too big and were pressing the accelerator and the brake at the same time. I've also experienced WOT on an old Kawisaki dirt bike. That was a complete mechanical malfunction though. I was able to quickly pull the clutch and kill the engine, but when the same thing happened to my brother, he ended up crashing into thorn bushes on the side a steep hill. Just goes to show you how the same event can evoke completely different responses; and sometimes a delayed or panicked response leads to tragedy.
 
ToyTech99 said:
I think what happens here is that people panic and they don't react the way they should.
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This is what happens i am sure. Now, until one of us is in that situation and experience it first-hand, i don't think that none of us would be so sure that we will act properly. It is easy to talk when you're not in the situation and panicking, esp. behind a computer screen and keyboard. In a panic situation, the best of us may act quite stupidly. :wow: How many of us have not had a situation where, upon retrospect, we would have done things totally differently?? And then you add in a sense of surprise and panic, well, you get my point.

So, i am not going to bash anyone who have experienced this problem and had a negative result out of it. I may be next....
 
Thai said:
This is what happens i am sure. Now, until one of us is in that situation and experience it first-hand, i don't think that none of us would be so sure that we will act properly. It is easy to talk when you're not in the situation and panicking, esp. behind a computer screen and keyboard. In a panic situation, the best of us may act quite stupidly. :wow: How many of us have not had a situation where, upon retrospect, we would have done things totally differently?? And then you add in a sense of surprise and panic, well, you get my point.
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I have personally had it happen to me in my Tacoma. I had just got the car washed and the carwash had taken the mats out and not put them back in correctly (not using the retaining clips), I had stomped on the throttle to pass someone and it stuck at WOT. I jammed my other foot on the brake and it did slow the truck down (not smoothly, but it did) then I put it in neutral a second or two later and just let the engine rev up. Once I got the vehicle stopped it was pretty apparent what caused the problem.
 
Thai said:
This is what happens i am sure. Now, until one of us is in that situation and experience it first-hand, i don't think that none of us would be so sure that we will act properly. It is easy to talk when you're not in the situation and panicking, esp. behind a computer screen and keyboard. In a panic situation, the best of us may act quite stupidly. :wow: How many of us have not had a situation where, upon retrospect, we would have done things totally differently?? And then you add in a sense of surprise and panic, well, you get my point.

.
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Instinct should tell anyone to brake in such a situation. I was actually in a very similar situation years ago with a Chevy Blazer. It turns out the throttle linkage got jammed open by a plastic tab that was left clipped to a fuel line. The vehicle went nearly full throttle instantly. My first reaction was to brake, and then to put the trans in neutral. I pulled over to the side of the road and popped the hood, only to find a piece of plastic jammed into the throttle linkage.
 
Then again, we're car nuts and know about cars...what about people who just use their cars to get from point A to B?? The soccer moms?? The old lady on a Sunday drive?? Are all of these people stupid for crashing or driving off a cliff??
 
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