Those that run King coilovers, fully armored w/winch on fast trails...

[SDmtnbkr]

For those that run King coilovers, fully armored w/winch on fast trails...

650lbs or 700lbs spring rate??

I've been scouring through every thread I can find and it seems that people run both, but I can't find any decent reviews on which springs rates to use for blasting a fully armored rig through the desert/rocky trails found in the South West.

I just ordered Kings with 650lbs springs but now I'm second guessing myself. I have an '02 with plate bumper and winch on the way, heavy sliders, roof rack and heavy sleeping platform, and I plan to run 295/70/17's. ...light weight skids down the road.

I think I probably need to call them and change the order to 700lbs springs, so some input be greatly appreciated.

 

[NWFLBowhunter]

I'm running 700s as I like to bomb down the trails as fast a possible. I still hit the bump stops occasionally.

 

[A.Wilson013]

650lbs or 700lbs spring rate??

I've been scouring through every thread I can find and it seems that people run both, but I can't find any decent reviews on which springs rates to use for blasting a fully armored rig through the desert/rocky trails found in the South West.

I just ordered Kings with 650lbs springs but now I'm second guessing myself. I have an '02 with plate bumper and winch on the way, heavy sliders, roof rack and heavy sleeping platform, and I plan to run 295/70/17's. ...light weight skids down the road.

I think I probably need to call them and change the order to 700lbs springs, so some input be greatly appreciated.

Lighter duty springs with heavier duty valving. A spring's only purpose should be to carry weight (which a 650lb spring will do swimmingly) while the valving of the piston should provide the dampening.

I'd also recommend some Wheeler's Superbumps for those times that you do bottom out. I freaking love these things. Ran them on my 4Runner, and now on my GX.

https://wheelersoffroad.com/product...-24936/wheelers-front-superbump-bumpstop-set/

I know it says for a Tacoma. I promise you they'll bolt right into your factory location.

 

[SDmtnbkr]

Lighter duty springs with heavier duty valving. A spring's only purpose should be to carry weight (which a 650lb spring will do swimmingly) while the valving of the piston should provide the dampening.

I'd also recommend some Wheeler's Superbumps for those times that you do bottom out. I freaking love these things. Ran them on my 4Runner, and now on my GX.

https://wheelersoffroad.com/product...-24936/wheelers-front-superbump-bumpstop-set/

I know it says for a Tacoma. I promise you they'll bolt right into your factory location.

Awesome thanks for the tips!

 

[A.Wilson013]

Awesome thanks for the tips!

No problem. If you ordered through a place like DSM, SDHQ, Headstrong, etc. they should be able to valve the coilovers and shocks to your specifications.

Tell them how much additional weight you've got, driving style, and what you want. They'll do the rest.

 

[JayRolla]

Lighter duty springs with heavier duty valving. A spring's only purpose should be to carry weight (which a 650lb spring will do swimmingly) while the valving of the piston should provide the dampening.

I'd also recommend some Wheeler's Superbumps for those times that you do bottom out. I freaking love these things. Ran them on my 4Runner, and now on my GX.

https://wheelersoffroad.com/product...-24936/wheelers-front-superbump-bumpstop-set/

I know it says for a Tacoma. I promise you they'll bolt right into your factory location.

Those bump stops limit up travel quite a bit.

 

[Kotrin]

I've been browsing these setup's and higher end 2.5 Shocks and such. I've spoken to a few shock vendors and what I'm after is a interesting setup. I don't do the fast(above 25mph) trails at high speed like a lot who run the Kings or Long Travel setup. I know its not always smart to buy something you wouldn't use to its full potential, but if it accomplished what I'm wanting then I don't care. What I need is a smooth ride as much as possible to prolong my ability to get out. Most of the time I just go slow which is fine for me, I'm defining slow as 25mph definition and want a smoother overall ride. I know i've gotten flak for what I'm trying to do, but I already am house bound 95% of the time and I don't want to become tied to 99.9% of the time. People who run the setup's how is your non bombing across rough roads and slow crawling, or do you never reach this point??

I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!

 

[AssBurns]

Those bump stops limit up travel quite a bit.

Yes and no. Low speed stuff (rock crawling), you'll never fully compress them. If you are doing high speed stuff like the OP is talking about, you can absolutely compress them to the point to bottom out to your second bump stop. Although it does take a pretty hard hit to do that. For the fast stuff the wheelers bump stops are one of the best bang for your buck investments I've done so far.

 

[SDmtnbkr]

Yes and no. Low speed stuff (rock crawling), you'll never fully compress them. If you are doing high speed stuff like the OP is talking about, you can absolutely compress them to the point to bottom out to your second bump stop. Although it does take a pretty hard hit to do that. For the fast stuff the wheelers bump stops are one of the best bang for your buck investments I've done so far.

I'd say I'm somewhere in between. I'm not gonna be putting in bypass shocks and hydraulic bump stops anytime soon, but I'm also not a crawler, although I like those trails as well. I just wanna be able to hit a wash trail at decent speeds and not get my teeth rattled out or bottom out because I'm too heavy, or loses control because my truck is bouncing everywhere. In the end I guess the 650's might be better because if they are too soft I'll know, and can swap them for 700's, but if I start with 700's I'd know if they are way too stiff, but if there're right on the verge, I'll always be wondering how much softer the 650's were.

I've heard good things about those bump stops before and I can't imagine the stock bump stops doing anything good for a hard fast hit. For as easy as these are to take in and out, I think they're definitely worth a shot. Thanks for the input guys.

BTW.... do you run limit straps front or rear?? I was at a Tocoma meet a few weeks ago and some of the guys were running limit straps in the front and/or the rear.

 

[JayRolla]

I think 650's handle bumpers and winch just fine. The rear coils get most of the weight when adding lots of gear.

Once you get fully armored including all scrap plates thats when you may need 700's.

 

[AssBurns]

Just my .02¢. From what I have always understood was it is better to be under sprung and over valved rather than over sprung and under valved. I would say you should be good to start at 650lb springs and dial in your shocks. I don't have any personal experience with a fully armored rig and coilovers though. I actually haven't even ran a front bumper for the last year. But that will change next week (front bumper is in process [emoji1303]).
I would also definitely recommend the wheelers superbumps. Night and day difference.
As for limit straps, I personally do not run them. I should probably run them in the front to keep my front struts from topping out too hard. Already broke a 5100 because of it and the second one is already looking like it needs replacement as well. In the rear I don't necessarily need them since my coils fully extend right when my shocks fully extend, so there is no preload at full extension. I would rather have a taller coil to add some preload at full extension but I don't want a taller ride height then I have now. Kind of a catch 22.

 

[NWFL4Runner]

Slightly different setup (2.5x8 Kings, long travel), but I have 700lb coils with a plate bumper and aluminum skids. I ordered them with 650s, but there was a mix-up at King, so I decided to run with the 700s for a while and see.

Even with compression adjuster dialed all the way down it is way too stiff, and I'll be ordering 650s in the near future. You'll be happy (happier maybe?) with 650s.

 

[SDmtnbkr]

As for limit straps, I personally do not run them. I should probably run them in the front to keep my front struts from topping out too hard. Already broke a 5100 because of it and the second one is already looking like it needs replacement as well. In the rear I don't necessarily need them since my coils fully extend right when my shocks fully extend, so there is no preload at full extension. I would rather have a taller coil to add some preload at full extension but I don't want a taller ride height then I have now. Kind of a catch 22.

I guess that makes sense.... so a good way to test this would be, once I get everything installed raise the truck from the frame until the wheels are off the ground and then disconnect the rear shocks. If the axle does not drop anymore, I'm good without limit straps. If they axle lowers more then I would need limit straps to stop the shock from acting as the limiter?

What stops the axle's down travel? The trailing arms?

 

[BrianSD_42]

How much lift did you guys get with the Kings?

Did you have to crank them up higher than the default King setting?

 

[SDmtnbkr]

How much lift did you guys get with the Kings?

Did you have to crank them up higher than the default King setting?

I thought you switched to Kings? I saw you post somewhere about buying them, but I've been keeping an eye on your build thread and haven't seen you mention them at all.


**EDIT: Whoops, I looked back through your thread and did find all the stuff you posted about your kings, must have missed it. What spring rate are you running?

 

[Rimcrew]

How much lift did you guys get with the Kings?

Did you have to crank them up higher than the default King setting?

Yes, please let us know. I can't believe how little info there is on the Kings...

 

[amalik]

Maybe [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] can give some newly found inside insight

 

[4-Ripcord]

Maybe [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION] can give some newly found inside insight

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said already. The sales teams at King and any of their large vendors are very knowledgeable.

 

[AssBurns]

I guess that makes sense.... so a good way to test this would be, once I get everything installed raise the truck from the frame until the wheels are off the ground and then disconnect the rear shocks. If the axle does not drop anymore, I'm good without limit straps. If they axle lowers more then I would need limit straps to stop the shock from acting as the limiter?



What stops the axle's down travel? The trailing arms?

You would want limit straps if you have preload on your springs at full droop. Preload on your springs at full droop is a good thing but you want to make sure that your shocks are not topping out too hard. If they are (I.E. hitting drop offs, whoops, jumps, etc), you'll want limit straps to keep your shocks from topping out hard. To test this, you will want to lift your vehicle by the frame until the wheels come off the ground. If your coils are still tight then you have preload. To see how much preload you have, disconnect the shocks and see how far the springs extend before they are loose. Coils don't do anything to limit down travel, only your shocks or straps do.
The reason I don't run straps is because I have zero preload at full droop, I can pull my coils out by hand if I wanted to. I'm running old LC80 8 wraps. Most people aren't running limit straps because they aren't topping out there shocks hard. Hope this helps.

 

[SDmtnbkr]

I have nothing to add that hasn't been said already. The sales teams at King and any of their large vendors are very knowledgeable.

Honestly, I've called and talked to 3 different techs in the last few weeks (prior to ordering and post), and gotten 3 different answers, which is why I started this thread. I'm usually the guy that goes right to the source, but I feel like because Tacoma's rule SoCal a lot of the manufactures here don't have as much 1st hand knowledge on our trucks. In the absence of solid manufacture info (I mean come on, King does suspension for so many rigs, as much damn as they actually give for 3rd Gens is really cool), I'll take 1st hand knowledge with a grain of salt, and just go from there.

You would want limit straps if you have preload on your springs at full droop. Preload on your springs at full droop is a good thing but you want to make sure that your shocks are not topping out too hard. If they are (I.E. hitting drop offs, whoops, jumps, etc), you'll want limit straps to keep your shocks from topping out hard. To test this, you will want to lift your vehicle by the frame until the wheels come off the ground. If your coils are still tight then you have preload. To see how much preload you have, disconnect the shocks and see how far the springs extend before they are loose. Coils don't do anything to limit down travel, only your shocks or straps do.
The reason I don't run straps is because I have zero preload at full droop, I can pull my coils out by hand if I wanted to. I'm running old LC80 8 wraps. Most people aren't running limit straps because they aren't topping out there shocks hard. Hope this helps.

Yup, that makes perfect sense, thanks!