TIL my 3rd brake light flashes and other fun facts

I bought it in St Louis and it was transferred from Illinois. Nothing on the sticker indicating any addons, but I totally believe you guys.

Must have been Jay Wolfe Toyota. That's where I bought mine and they had the brake light sitting on the counter so you could hit the button and be amazed. If I'm remembering correctly either the literature or the sales guy claimed it was going to be government mandated in a few years. This was 2017. Sounds like it's not gov friendly. Knowledge is power folks.
 
Did you figure out the brake shift interlock? Does it actually shift out of park without pressing on the brake?
I hope not, because that would be a violation of FMVSS 114 which requires:

S5.3 Brake transmission shift interlock. Each motor vehicle manufactured on or after September 1, 2010 with a GVWR of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) or less with an automatic transmission that includes a “park” position shall be equipped with a system that requires the service brake to be depressed before the transmission can be shifted out of “park.” This system shall function in any starting system key position in which the transmission can be shifted out of “park.” This section does not apply to trailers or motorcycles.
 
It does after I have shifted it out of park for the first time, so it goes into the shop on the 6th as that seems.....off.
That is "off". Your brake interlock is broken. Should be an easy fix normally, but may be related to that brake flasher they installed.

You need to get this sorted as it is dangerous.
 
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.
 
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.


Aargh! I notice a lot of new model Hyundai's with this feature in my area. Was once behind a group of four ricey sport compacts, diving like fools. They all had the blink-blink-blink-blink lights. So annoying! Good thing I am not sensitive to strobe lights.
 
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.

Come to think of it, some emergency vehicles have something similar around STL. Can't remember if it's ambulances or fire trucks.
 
Come to think of it, some emergency vehicles have something similar around STL. Can't remember if it's ambulances or fire trucks.

Almost all the emergency vehicles in MA have it and pretty sure several other states around. I always see Hondas with the flashing brake lights added. Never heard of anyone getting pulled over for it but I'm sure they're out there.
 
The FMVSS governs the sale and manufacture of vehicles in the United States. However, what is legal to own and operate is governed by your particular state's vehicle code. Blinking third brake lights are legal to operate in many states. What is typically restricted is the rate and total number of times the light may blink. As an example my state's vehicle code reads:

25251.5(c)
Any stoplamp or supplemental stoplamp required or permitted by Section 24603 may be equipped so as to flash not more than four times within the first four seconds after actuation by application of the brakes.

So basically the dealership can't legally sell it pre-installed, but they can sell you the mod and install it after the sale if it's legal to use in your area.
Gotta love Kalifornia. That regulation is actually a violation. See my bolding below

From the CATO institute:

Can a state impede federal authorities from enforcing their own law if the state deems the law to be unconstitutional? The answer is “No,” although more radical nullification proponents would disagree. They point to the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions of 1798 and 1799, in which Thomas Jefferson and James Madison asserted a state’s right to nullify the Alien and Sedition Acts.

But consider those resolutions in context: Jefferson and Madison had argued that the states must have the final word because the Constitution had not expressly established an ultimate authority on constitutional matters.

Four years later in Marbury v. Madison, Chief Justice John Marshall resolved that oversight. He wrote: “It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is.” Since then, instead of 50 individual states effecting their own views regarding constitutionality, we have one Supreme Court establishing a uniform rule for the entire nation.

The Framers concurred. In Federalist 78, Alexander Hamilton had written: “\ limited constitution … can be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice, whose duty it must be to declare all acts contrary to the manifest tenor of the constitution void.” Madison shared that view. He wrote: “(I)ndependent tribunals … will be an impenetrable bulwark against every assumption of power in the legislative or executive.”

Even before Marbury, the Virginia General Assembly had passed Madison’s Report of 1800. It acknowledged that states can declare federal laws unconstitutional; but the declaration would have no legal effect unless the courts agreed. Here’s what Madison wrote: State “declarations … are expressions of opinion, (intended only for) exciting reflection. The expositions of the judiciary, on the other hand, are carried into immediate effect.”

Madison also published Notes on Nullification in 1834. There, he wrote that an individual state cannot unilaterally invalidate a federal law. That process requires collective action by the states. Similarly, Jefferson’s Kentucky Resolutions had described nullification as an act by “the several states” that formed the Constitution.

____________________________________________

While no state can create a regulation that overrides a federal regulation, they can decide not to inspect for, or enforce, a certain regulation.

Accordingly, a state can say "we don't care about third brake lights so we won't see if they are working during inspection" but they can't legally say "the brake light can flash"

This actually makes sense. If a state would create a law (a flashing brake light for example) then a California driver could get ticketed while driving in a state that enforces the FMVSS.

California is, in this case, violating the law.
 
Come to think of it, some emergency vehicles have something similar around STL. Can't remember if it's ambulances or fire trucks.
Emergency vehicles have a different set of regulations. Examples can be seen here and here. Remember too that many emergency vehicles do not fall under the FMVSS.Over the next years, you will see even more lighting added to emergency vehicles and greater use of traffic light preemption based on studies such as this one.

In general, flashing lights are reserved for emergency vehicles.
 
I agree that those devices are a safety hazard.

I bought my 4Runner out of state (because I wanted a blue Pro and no local dealers would budge on price) and one of the dealers I didn't buy from would have had a sale were it not for the back-and-forth they made me go through to get them to agree to remove it prior to delivery... I ended up actually going another whole state over and buying from a dealership that didn't do any of that kind of crap in the first place.
 
I bought a new 4Runner in 2019 (Night-Shade Limited) and when I went to pick it up I spotted a $300 charge for a dealer installed safety system --I forget the stupid name they assigned to it. The salesperson indicated the dealership installs this device on every new vehicle it sells as a service to their customers. He indicated that it saved countless lives per year and he was aghast when I demanded they remove it after I heard what it does --flashed the center brake light in rapid succession. I had to threaten the sales manager that I was going to walk away from the deal before they finally agreed to remove the charge. I assumed they'd remove it but learned later it was doing it's thing. When I got sick of the flashing light I learned why they didn't take it out. The hack that installed it butchered the wiring and left me no room to savage the Toyota connector. What a piece of trash this device is. And why Toyota allows dealers to get away with this kind of behavior escapes me -- crimp on bullet connectors on a brand new vehicle. Really???

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