Time For New Suspension - what am I forgetting?

[Krommeweg]

The time has come, whether I like it or not. Rear springs are sagged and shocks are barely starting to leak. Suspension is stock right now, with the factory lift springs. Like driving a soft mattress.

The Yota does miles on bad gravel roads and highway every day. Water crossings, washboard, loose gravel, deep snow, ice, and everything else you get in costal Alaska. Not to mention CaCl salt in the winter and something similar they spread on gravel in the summer to keep dust down. We periodically haul 500lbs in the back or tow as needed. It’s not unusual to be carrying 100 - 200lbs of diesel or food for the livestock on the ride home. Durability and control at speed on gravel are my top priorities.

If I can afford to add airbags in the rear, I will. Waiting to hear from Toytec about whether or not bags will fit with these springs.

Here’s what I’m thinking so far:
Bilstein 6112 kit assuming my top plates and isolater aren’t too corroded. Set at 1” lift

Bilstein 5160s in the rear
Toytec 9602HD for 3” lift
Or 9602RC with airbags

Stainless lines, ebrake extension bracket, weld-on Panhard drop bracket.

What do you think? Given that the welds are done properly, will the Panhard drop bracket be burly enough? Also planning to NOT install diff drop hardware on the front. Bump stops?

Does anyone use those Icon Coilover neoprene socks ? Goofy to be sure, but I’ll do what it takes to protect these shiny new parts.

Thank you for reading.

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

The only help I can be is with the toytec springs, I got the HD and I will say that they are very nice. Mine has settled to 39.5" ground to flare so I think 3 inches of lift?? I have a hitch rack and putting 260lbs on that sagged the springs exactly one inch. Putting that weight in the back of the car sagged it only 1/4 inch but the weight was only on one side not in the middle. I have a back platform which is 70lbs and the hitch rack which is 50 and it doesn’t ride harsh at all unloaded.

Id also personally recommend the FJZ80 LC shocks if your gonna have weight. They are super cheap so you’d definitely save some money

The HD are 19.5” and 18.5” tall. Below is a pic of what I currently have in terms of lift from the HD springs and how they look compared to OME 890s. Keep in mind my tire is 33.5” tall so you’ll have more of a gap if yours are smaller

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gamefreakgc]

Just to add a thought - changing the lift height will also change how the vehicle drives and feels. You may or may not like it since it is subjective. I've driven lifted 4Runners and personally didn't like it so I left mine at stock height but once again, that's me and this is you and your 4Runner. If you have a friend that owns a similar lifted 4Runner maybe ask if you can drive it and see what lift they went with. People love showing off their 4Runners.

Airbags by far are the best option for hauling and towing. I agree with the above poster - there are a lot of OEM Toyota parts that could be used to save some bucks to put towards airbags. Even 99 talls are a great option but I realize 1" lift may not be what you are after. A thought on the lines - if you live where salt is a real problem are there any brake line extensions that are rubber coated like the OEM lines? I have stainless steel lines on mine but I don't ever see salt on the road.

I think the one thing we can agree on is ANYTHING is better than the tired old suspension you've got right now!

 

[the_welfare_wagon]

Just to add a thought - changing the lift height will also change how the vehicle drives and feels. You may or may not like it since it is subjective. I've driven lifted 4Runners and personally didn't like it so I left mine at stock height but once again, that's me and this is you and your 4Runner. If you have a friend that owns a similar lifted 4Runner maybe ask if you can drive it and see what lift they went with. People love showing off their 4Runners.

Airbags by far are the best option for hauling and towing. I agree with the above poster - there are a lot of OEM Toyota parts that could be used to save some bucks to put towards airbags. Even 99 talls are a great option but I realize 1" lift may not be what you are after. A thought on the lines - if you live where salt is a real problem are there any brake line extensions that are rubber coated like the OEM lines? I have stainless steel lines on mine but I don't ever see salt on the road.

I think the one thing we can agree on is ANYTHING is better than the tired old suspension you've got right now!

Totally agree with the part about lifting changing the dynamic of the vehicle. If OP was to go with these springs you will definitely need the panhard correction but OP has already mentioned wanting it.

Also speaking on the panhard... dont skimp and get the cheap eBay panhard drops. Go with the Eimkeith even though it's slightly more expensive. SRQ has a discount code to bring the price down as well but there is definitely a difference in metal quality between them, just an additional .02

 

[96RedRunner]

Bushings all of them. Do not use Moog.

I went Tundra 6112's LC 5160's with LC springs for the weight capacity.

 

[alexperrucci]

I 2nd the bushings comment. I've heard the coilover socks do a great job keeping them new looking and operating.

 

[3bears]

I did a 2.5 inch lift on one, it was ok..did the pan hard brackets and a diff drop.
my current is a factory highlander....so it has the talls on it...so 1 inch over "stock". Yes on air bags, they are a big help.

also...I think if your going over 2 inches you might need to change your rear sway bar links....and if you have a locker you may have to relocate the rear sway bar...I know sonoran steel sells those, ( sway brackets) cant rememebr at what height those are recomended

 

[96RedRunner]

Sonoran Steel 1.2 3"F - 4"R kit came with diff drop & S/B raise pieces locker or not.
2008 word was 3-4" lift when you needed both, I use them on current 01 Runner 2.75"- 3" lift.
CV boots last longer locker parts hard or costly to come by. Both easy to make if on a budget.
Have all EimKeith stuff except bumper, Durabumps for bumpstops both good stuff.

 

[phattyduck]

Bushings, as others have said, along with new OEM (OEM ONLY!!!!) front lower ball joints.

Bump stops and any number of other things can be done piecemeal.

Also consider that Bilstein shocks have digressive valving - which is good for some things and worse for others. Spend some time reading before you commit. (I have 5100's all around, so they aren't a bad choice!)

Budget is also an issue.

Rather than socks and other stuff on the parts, how about an oil coating like fluid film to fight the salt?

-Charlie

 

[LostInNewtonCo]

I’m not sure what all you’re forgetting, but I would look into what bushings come with the struts that you buy. Sometimes the 5100s are sent with bushings that have 1/2 inch inner diameter holes that don’t fit the bolts on the 3rd gen LCA. Just a thought. I’m fighting that now and can’t find the right replacement lower eye bushings for my front struts unless I buy the crappy rubber ones that last barely 10,000 miles before they are squished and ruined again. Looking for some good Polyurethane ones if anybody has a link.

 

[Romeo1]

A rear 3" lift spring will have all kinds of rake with the 6112 set at 1" height. Unless you're running a ton of gear, it'll be very raked. I still have lots of rake with a few hundred pounds of gear and 4-5 people.

I have a a fair amount rake with gear in it still running at the 2" setting and 2890 ome springs. I'll be going to 2.3" up front when it roll my new lower arms and jba uppers some time winter.

Your gonna love the shocks. Get durobumps at some point.

You'll have to address the sway bars at some point. There's a couple of ways to do that.

PCK is amazing. I should have done that way way sooner.

Lastly, air down! I air down to 15-18 psi when wheeling. It's a game changer, and the single greatest thing you can do for ride comfort, traction, and tire durability.

For max control on gravel at high speed, four wheel drive on, end of story. With thw swaybars dialed, a pan hard correction kit, and four-wheel-drive on you'll get to do high-speed gravel safely and with ease.

I was doing 55-65 on gravel today without a care in the world. So much much with the oversteer these 4Runners have around the corners. Need to fix my rear brakes though. My E brake turns are pretty sad since I ruined my rear pads.

 

[Romeo1]

What are you going to run for tires?

 

[Krommeweg]

Bushings, as others have said, along with new OEM (OEM ONLY!!!!) front lower ball joints.

how about an oil coating like fluid film to fight the salt?

I just happen to have all my OEM suspension bushings ready to go, and I did all four front ball joints, links and bar bushings 18 months ago, OEM. Should I do them again, or stick to the every 50,000 miles rule? Money is no object when it comes to avoiding blowing a ball joint on the highway in the winter.

Fluid film! That's a great idea. I use that stuff on the tractor and snowblower... and everything else. Thank you for the reminder.

 

[Krommeweg]

A rear 3" lift spring will have all kinds of rake with the 6112 set at 1" height. Unless you're running a ton of gear, it'll be very raked. I still have lots of rake with a few hundred pounds of gear and 4-5 people.

I have a a fair amount rake with gear in it still running at the 2" setting and 2890 ome springs. I'll be going to 2.3" up front when it roll my new lower arms and jba uppers some time winter.

You'll have to address the sway bars at some point. There's a couple of ways to do that.

My E brake turns are pretty sad since I ruined my rear pads.

I'm not afraid of the rake... but if I could find a variable rate heavy duty 2" lift spring in the rear, I would be happy. I could not care less about how goofy I look, and the tiny change in ground clearance from a higher front lift isn't worth the wear and tear on driveline parts, in my opinion.

Have decided I definitely need airbags, and the Air Lift kit looks pretty decent. Maybe a proper on-board compressor would be worth it, to air up and down.

Do I just need to buy Old Man Emu springs? They have a rainbow of sizes and applications, I just got the feeling from the price and what I've heard that they were a cheaper and less robust part.

Talk to me about sway bars? I was hoping the Panhard correction bracket would take care of the rear end, and if I kept the front lift at 1" my OEM bar and new end links would be alright.

Using 265/75/16s at the moment. Cool it on the e-brake turns man! Turns out most potential partners actually aren't impressed by that. I checked.

Obviously there is an alignment in my future.

 

[Bad Luck]

I'm not afraid of the rake... but if I could find a variable rate heavy duty 2" lift spring in the rear, I would be happy. I could not care less about how goofy I look, and the tiny change in ground clearance from a higher front lift isn't worth the wear and tear on driveline parts, in my opinion.

Have decided I definitely need airbags, and the Air Lift kit looks pretty decent. Maybe a proper on-board compressor would be worth it, to air up and down.

Do I just need to buy Old Man Emu springs? They have a rainbow of sizes and applications, I just got the feeling from the price and what I've heard that they were a cheaper and less robust part.

Talk to me about sway bars? I was hoping the Panhard correction bracket would take care of the rear end, and if I kept the front lift at 1" my OEM bar and new end links would be alright.

Using 265/75/16s at the moment. Cool it on the e-brake turns man! Turns out most potential partners actually aren't impressed by that. I checked.

Obviously there is an alignment in my future.

Have you looked into OME 906 springs with a small spacer? They're a higher coil spring rate but most people only net 1-2 inches unloaded with them without a spacer. You could easily run airbags in those springs as well for when you need the extra help.

I wouldn't worry about replacing the ball joints and sway bar bushings since you've already replaced them with OEM recently.

 

[Romeo1]

I'm not afraid of the rake... but if I could find a variable rate heavy duty 2" lift spring in the rear, I would be happy. I could not care less about how goofy I look, and the tiny change in ground clearance from a higher front lift isn't worth the wear and tear on driveline parts, in my opinion.

Have decided I definitely need airbags, and the Air Lift kit looks pretty decent. Maybe a proper on-board compressor would be worth it, to air up and down.

Do I just need to buy Old Man Emu springs? They have a rainbow of sizes and applications, I just got the feeling from the price and what I've heard that they were a cheaper and less robust part.

Talk to me about sway bars? I was hoping the Panhard correction bracket would take care of the rear end, and if I kept the front lift at 1" my OEM bar and new end links would be alright.

Using 265/75/16s at the moment. Cool it on the e-brake turns man! Turns out most potential partners actually aren't impressed by that. I checked.

Obviously there is an alignment in my future.

I want to say Dobinson's makes a variable rate coil. I can't remember if toytec does or not either.

From OME, I think they do make one variable rate coil, but I cannot remember which model it is. Might have to look at the OME catalog. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

The Panhard relocation is going to have the most profound effect on body roll, if it needs it. If you don't lift it very much, you won't notice it though. When I ran 2906 springs in the rear, it was not needed at all. When I stepped up to 2890 rear springs, it needed the pck badly. Body roll for days without it.

The more I think about it, maybe you do everything else first lift wise/and or air bag wise before you do the panhard change. You may not even need to change the panhard if you have a low lift. You may not even have to do anything with a swaybars either.

I've known my wife since 2007. She's completely aware of my shenanigans.....lol the kids do giggle with the E brake turns though.....


I really liked the 2906 Springs. I went bigger, simply for load carrying capacity when I go off roading as I had alot of sag with 5 people and gear. But if you don't lift very much, it might be a good spring, especially with airbags. There could be a better spring out there for you though. Someone more knowledgeable on that may have a better answer.

 

[Zhehan]

Variable Rate = Progressive Rate

Pony Parts Springs

The Difference Between Progressive and Linear Rate Springs

If you look at just about anybody's rear springs for these trucks, they are all progressive (variable) rate springs. OME included. Eibach make linear rate rear coils. I had never heard someone call progressive rate springs "Variable" before this forum, so it must be a newer term because of the internet. There are also Dual Rate springs available. The Toytech Superflex springs that they no longer make were Dual Rate coils. All of their current rear springs for these trucks are progressive.

I hope this clears up the confusion.

 

[phattyduck]

From OME, I think they do make one variable rate coil, but I cannot remember which model it is. Might have to look at the OME catalog. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

The OME 2906 is their rear variable rate option. Low lift, but reasonable load handling (as long as you don't need a big lift when loaded!). They are relatively short, so you can't run long shocks - but shouldn't be an issue in this case.

I'm currently running 5th gen 4runner springs, but want to move to the 2906's...

-Charlie

 

[Krommeweg]

Nothing like new parts

Thanks again to everyone for their input. I appreciate you folks.

Finally got around to getting the work done.
Bilstein 6112s w/ 600lb coils
5100s in the back w/ OME 2890 springs
Installed the Air Lift 1000 kit as well.

Gosh darn this thing moves like a new truck. Very smooth and comfortable on sh!!!y roads and highway speeds. There is still a little bit of body roll when you're sliding around corners on these gravel roads that have a super high crown down the center, but it's gradual and easy to control when you're out of control at speed.

The 600lb springs in the front are almost too soft. Think I would go with the 650lbers if I do this again with the same stock bodywork. I would recommend a stiffer spring for stock weight, but it's not bad enough to make me want to do it over again until I have to. Installed the struts with the lockring on the lowest setting, expecting 1/2" lift according to what Bilstein says. That was my mistake. This truck had factory lift springs originally and the lowest lockring setting on the Bilsteins is about the same height. It settled down maybe a 1/4" lower even. Planning to take the truck to a professional and have them move the lockring up two positions to the third setting. The spring compressor I have struggled to compress those springs the first time (Wheeler's sent me one at the 3rd and one at the 2nd position). Looking for that evasive 1" lift. The CV angle is almost horizontal...

The 2890 rears are perfect for carrying extra weight sometimes. They don't seem to notice. The truck is MUCH better over shi!!y washboard and I'm doing things I should not do in 2H. The difference moving through deep snow is dramatic. Should have high centered several times already this winter but No! Put 600lbs of hay in the back and drove home 200 miles in the snow whistlin' and grinnin. Without measurin nothin, I would estimate more than 2" of lift unloaded. Got the goofy rake for sure. So far the airbags are totally unnecessary and I'm keeping them at 10psi. The Airlift 1000 kit works fine but without any experience at all, I feel like they may wear quickly... They include instructions for different setups but you will have to improvise a little to get it to work. Cut off the bump stop in a different place, and use their spacers, etc.

Had an alignment done and I seem to be in good shape without doing anything to the panhard bar. There is a god.

Will post pictures.

Thanks again to all of you, this forum is a great resource. Now I can focus on my new P0171 code...

 

[Krommeweg]

The rake is strong.