Timely review, 4Runner Trail v. Jeep GC

[453030]

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee V-6 Limited vs. 2010 Toyota 4Runner Trail Edition - Comparison - Motor Trend

After reading yesterday how the LR4 was favored over the V8 GC, this review comes as no surprise.

 

[Quentin]

Yikes, $45k for the Jeep and that isn't even optioned out (no air suspension). As expected the Jeep wins on-road and that ultimately gives it the "win" in the comparo. Most people don't actually use their SUVs for off-road and I'm sure the GC is good enough offroad for most people (and I'm sure it is just as capable as the SR5 offroad), so that angle makes sense. But, my SR5 stickered for $9k cheaper than the GC... that is enough for a late 90s Miata for on-road fun. haha

Interesting that the 4Runner beat it on acceleration and fuel economy with a "weaker" engine.

 

[audiqtr]

Don't really understand why they wouldn't compare Limited vs. Limited

 

[Jed]

I'm sure Motor Trend was trying to keep prices in check (and obviously V6 engines), but it would have been nice to see a Jeep with QDII (and the terrain select & air suspension) in a more offroad oriented type of test.

Also keep in mind that the V6 is Jeep's base engine, so there's really no need for them to max it out on power & torque. They offer two V8 engines if you need more power.

 

[Quentin]

I'm sure Motor Trend was trying to keep prices in check (and obviously V6 engines), but it would have been nice to see a Jeep with QDII (and the terrain select & air suspension) in a more offroad oriented type of test.

Also keep in mind that the V6 is Jeep's base engine, so there's really no need for them to max it out on power & torque. They offer two V8 engines if you need more power.

It seems like less of an issue of them "maxing it out on power and torque" and more of an issue that the engine wasn't designed with pulling a 4800lb truck around. IIRC, this is the pentastar engine which more competes with the 2GR than the 1GR. The 1GR is a truck engine, designed to make torque, keep the curve flat, and keep the RPMs low. If you look at the gearing in the GC, that V6 is spinning pretty fast at 60mph. I think the weaker acceleration and worse fuel economy of the GC proves out that the V6 isn't very well suited to the chassis. It is a car engine in a truck, for all practical purposes. It is more there for advertising purposes than anything. Get customers in the door looking for a high powered V6 with great fuel economy and less cost and hand them the keys to the higher profit margin V8 model.

 

[Jed]

Their new Pentastar V6 is designed for many different vehicles....not just the Jeep. I'm sure they felt it would work well as a base engine in this new Jeep. Plus, keep in mind the fact that they are still using the old transmission. Next year they are supposed to have a new automatic with more gear ratios, which will obviously work better with the V6 engine.

 

[Thai]

Did the 4runner have KDSS in the test? I read the article quickly but did not see it mentioned. If not, then i wonder if it would have changed the editor's opinion of the 4runner's on-road ride?`

 

[Jed]

.... It is more there for advertising purposes than anything. Get customers in the door looking for a high powered V6 with great fuel economy and less cost and hand them the keys to the higher profit margin V8 model.

Trust me, these guys are banking on this engine. It's not just to get people in the door. The success of this engine is huge for the company. I remember reading somewhere that Jeep expects to sell about 50% of their new Grand Cherokee with the Pentastar V6.

If you look at the numbers, the Jeep is slightly heavier than the 4Runner. It also makes slightly less torque and slightly more HP (but both at higher RPM). The actual performance on the road is only slightly different, which is exactly what I'd expect. But still, the new transmission next year should make all the difference in the world and will be a great match for the output of the V6. Anyone considering the 2011 Grand Cherokee V6 should definitely hold out until the 2012 model year.

 

[Quentin]

Their new Pentastar V6 is designed for many different vehicles....not just the Jeep. I'm sure they felt it would work well as a base engine in this new Jeep. Plus, keep in mind the fact that they are still using the old transmission. Next year they are supposed to have a new automatic with more gear ratios, which will obviously work better with the V6 engine.

That was my point. The pentastar seems more like the 2GR that Toyota puts in the RX350, Sienna, Venza, Camry, Highlander, Sienna, and Rav4. I have a feeling that if you look at the stroke and bore of the Pentastar, it will come out in a ratio much more similar to the 2GR than the 1GR. Similar to the 1GR/2GR situation, the 2GR is much more important to Toyota's bottom line than the 1GR based on the ridiculous number of vehicles that utilize it.

Personally, something with the heft and off-road intentions of the 4Runner or JGC should have a bit more stroke to make torque down low. I believe the 2GR and 1GR have the exact same bore... the stroke makes up the displacement differences. I'd love to see a modern 4.0L I6 come back for the Wrangler and JGC, honestly. Give it dual VVT and you'd have a great engine.

 

[RHINOSAUR]

response to review aobve

In general,

IMHO, I find the review kind of annoying from the fact that it is geared towards a "general public" (which i guess is the point). What gets me is that they insist on attributing lower scores on features that make the car more rugged and less "car like". Well, I always ask myself..what the hell is the point in buying an off-road capable vehicle if you want a car.
In other words if you want a car...just go get yourself a souped up accord or a entry level beamer or audi and be done with it (assuming the price range in hand).

So when they say that the suspension bounces too much and that basically the runner is more like a mountain buggy than the jeep: well thanks for re-enforcing my notion that I will NOT buy a GC when I am looking for a true off road vehicle.

Plus: they never mention durability...I want to see 100 K miles later with off road abuse.....then we'll talk and see which suspension is better.. Its annoying that durability and reliability are never thrown in the equation here.
Note: I know the cars are new..sot its hard to find experimental data, but they may be able to make long term projections based on the current specs and submitting the cars to tougher more demanding tests which expose the car to long term abuse and durability


cheers.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

The article was interesting but does me no good because I will only buy a V8. I like the smoothness, low end torque and sound of a V8. V6 motors just feel a little rough to me. I do not care if they are equal in the 1/4 mile. I also do not care if a V6 get a little better mileage. I have been driving my sons Cadillac CTS-V that comes with the 400 hp Corvette motor so I am spoiled and always did like as much poewer as I can get. I would not consider anything but a 4runner if it had the new 4.6 motor but until that day happens they are not for me. I have test drove two 2010 4runners and left the dealer in my 03 V8 liking my 03 better. Only the Hemi in the Grand Cherokee will work for me.

 

[Thai]

If you look at the numbers, the Jeep is slightly heavier than the 4Runner.

well, there goes one of the main benefit of unibody design vs. body-on-frame design! :roadkill: The only real Jeep is the Wrangler...now, a Penstar with 5-speed auto in a Wrangler will be dreamy!

 

[Koz]

Trust me, these guys are banking on this engine. It's not just to get people in the door. The success of this engine is huge for the company. I remember reading somewhere that Jeep expects to sell about 50% of their new Grand Cherokee with the Pentastar V6.

If that's the case they have failed miserably. Let’s see, a smaller engine that makes 20 more hp and is a dog (0 to 30mph = 1/2 sec slower) and it also guzzles gas like a V8. I would not be surprised if KDSS was purposely left out.

Koz

 

[Physgirl]

4R is $5k less, lighter, more torque, faster and better off-road but they give the GC 1st place. That would make sense if it was a GM product, lol. Motor Trend = GM Fluffer. Limited on both would have made more sense.

 

[Jed]

That was my point. The pentastar seems more like the 2GR that Toyota puts in the RX350, Sienna, Venza, Camry, Highlander, Sienna, and Rav4. I have a feeling that if you look at the stroke and bore of the Pentastar, it will come out in a ratio much more similar to the 2GR than the 1GR. Similar to the 1GR/2GR situation, the 2GR is much more important to Toyota's bottom line than the 1GR based on the ridiculous number of vehicles that utilize it.

Personally, something with the heft and off-road intentions of the 4Runner or JGC should have a bit more stroke to make torque down low. I believe the 2GR and 1GR have the exact same bore... the stroke makes up the displacement differences. I'd love to see a modern 4.0L I6 come back for the Wrangler and JGC, honestly. Give it dual VVT and you'd have a great engine.

I totally see your point. But while Jeep is obviously hoping that this V6 is a success (in several different vehicles), it doesn't have to be anything more than a base engine in the Grand Cherokee. Buyers who are looking for more power and torque have two V8 engines to choose from, while buyers who are more fuel economy minded can have the choice of a V6 that delivers decent performance with decent fuel economy. It's all about choices when it comes to these new Jeeps. Toyota, on the other hand, basically went with a "one engine" strategy with the new 4Runner. They need the V6 to do it all. Yes, there's a 4 cylinder available, but it is severely underpowered and doesn't get much better fuel economy. And I'm quite sure they Toyota knew they wouldn't sell well.

 

[M1911]

I'd love to see a modern 4.0L I6 come back for the Wrangler and JGC, honestly. Give it dual VVT and you'd have a great engine.

Agreed, but it is just not going to happen. Inline sixes are harder to package, due to their length, so very few manufacturers outside of BMW are building them.

 

[dk27]

I totally see your point. But while Jeep is obviously hoping that this V6 is a success (in several different vehicles), it doesn't have to be anything more than a base engine in the Grand Cherokee. Buyers who are looking for more power and torque have two V8 engines to choose from, while buyers who are more fuel economy minded can have the choice of a V6 that delivers decent performance with decent fuel economy. It's all about choices when it comes to these new Jeeps. Toyota, on the other hand, basically went with a "one engine" strategy with the new 4Runner. They need the V6 to do it all. Yes, there's a 4 cylinder available, but it is severely underpowered and doesn't get much better fuel economy. And I'm quite sure they Toyota knew they wouldn't sell well.

The idea that the Jeep is all about the masses but has 3 motors seems quite opposite to me. A lot of people probably don't even know what motor is under their hood but rather just know how it feels when they drive it. I think it's nice to have choices but if we're talking about the majority of people buying these things lets not kid ourselves.

Also, the transmission they mated with this motor from at least one other review I've read is a huge disappointment. Just another thing I don't understand why they didn't insist on getting right coming out of the box.

As a final thought this review they threw together seems absolutely stupid. They pin the TRAIL version of the 4Runner against the luxury/limited version of the Grand Cherokee. That's pretty absurd based on how they concluded things.

 

[dekeman]

Every time a new vehicle comes out, we all get excited and think the new will be better than the last. But look back at the Consumer Reports reliability records. 4Runner shows an astoundingly good report card for the past seven years. Check that against the past several years for the Cherokee.

 

[Jed]

The idea that the Jeep is all about the masses but has 3 motors seems quite opposite to me. A lot of people probably don't even know what motor is under their hood but rather just know how it feels when they drive it. I think it's nice to have choices but if we're talking about the majority of people buying these things lets not kid ourselves.

Also, the transmission they mated with this motor from at least one other review I've read is a huge disappointment. Just another thing I don't understand why they didn't insist on getting right coming out of the box.

As a final thought this review they threw together seems absolutely stupid. They pin the TRAIL version of the 4Runner against the luxury/limited version of the Grand Cherokee. That's pretty absurd based on how they concluded things.

Well, I think they are about the masses...and 3 engines choices seems to fit in well with that strategy. They offer an engine for everyone, although I don't see a big difference between their two V8 engines. Either way, if you are economy minded and don't have much to tow, they make a V6 for you. If you don't care much about fuel economy and tow heavy loads, get the Hemi. How is that choice not a good thing...or not about satisfying the masses?

Agreed that the transmission is a big letdown. But it's not surprising that they didn't get the new tranny in there from the first model year. That kind of stuff happens all the time. Just look at the redesigned 2010 Mustang. It came with a relatively "weak" 4.6L V8 and just one year later they come with a 5.0L engine with about another 100 HP.

The Grand Cherokee in the test was missing the air suspension option, but it did have the top-of-the-line 4wd system. Of course it also had the 20" wheels/tire, which are not exactly offroad friendly. I would have liked to see a comparison of a Laredo with QDII, air suspension, and the 18" wheels/tires. It would have been priced lower and would have been better off road. Then again, they didn't seem to focus much on off road ability...

 

[Jed]

4R is $5k less, lighter, more torque, faster and better off-road but they give the GC 1st place. .

All true, but keep in mind that they compared a Limited Jeep with a Trail 4Runner. The price would have been a lot closer had they chosen a Laredo instead of a Limited. And also keep in mind that their test was more for on road performance than offroad performance, so it should be no surprise that the Jeep won. Speed doesn't really mean very much for SUVs, but since they both performed similarly, I don't see the 4Runner getting much of an edge there...