Timing belt question...

[Benski]

I was losing power in my truck and took it to get looked at. Put on new wires, new plugs, coil boots, had 6 matched injectors put in, cat conv I was told was clear, got valve cover gaskets and seals replaced, hoses replaced, vacuum leak fixed and it came down to the timing. I replaced the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and belts about 2 years/20k miles ago. I took the upper timing belt cover off and see dark red dust inside the cover and on the belts. I turned the crankshaft until the cams were straight up on their marks. With this, the crank is about 15 degrees retarded according to the 0,5,10,15 gauge on the plastic cover. I am saying it is about 3/4" to the right of the 0 with the numbers increasing/reading to the left. Does anyone have an idea what may have caused this? Bad tensioner? And if the cams and crank are on their marks, does it really matter where the marks on the timing belt are or if it is on "backwards"? I know many of us on here are quite "particular", as I usually am, but I don't see where the belt markings matter. Thanks for any help.

 

[TheDurk]

I was losing power in my truck and took it to get looked at. Put on new wires, new plugs, coil boots, had 6 matched injectors put in, cat conv I was told was clear, got valve cover gaskets and seals replaced, hoses replaced, vacuum leak fixed and it came down to the timing. I replaced the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and belts about 2 years/20k miles ago. I took the upper timing belt cover off and see dark red dust inside the cover and on the belts. I turned the crankshaft until the cams were straight up on their marks. With this, the crank is about 15 degrees retarded according to the 0,5,10,15 gauge on the plastic cover. I am saying it is about 3/4" to the right of the 0 with the numbers increasing/reading to the left. Does anyone have an idea what may have caused this? Bad tensioner? And if the cams and crank are on their marks, does it really matter where the marks on the timing belt are or if it is on "backwards"? I know many of us on here are quite "particular", as I usually am, but I don't see where the belt markings matter. Thanks for any help.

Marks on the belt are only used for initial installation. Set the crank at 0° (TDC) and shoot a picture of the cam marking for us. They can be confusing. A slip of the belt by 15° is improbable. They don't slip as they have teeth. It's more probable the crank bolt was not fully torqued (given 20k since TB job) and the pulley (aka harmonic balancer) and sprocket came loose, sheared the key and the sprocket is rotating on the crank. Thus the pulley can be off by 15° but timing is out by less. I don't think they can run 15° out. Get this checked out NOW as end game is the pulley flying off causing all kinds of damage and the crank being ruined, meaning new engine. Was the crank bolt torqued to the full 218 foot-lbs. and a new bolt, or at least red Loctite on the old one, used?

This would not be the first or last shop to halfass torquing the crank bolt on a TB job.

 

[CdaleR4000si]

Dark red dust is never a good sign. In my business, that usually means bearing failure or some other metal on metal issue. [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] is right, get this checked out ASAP!

 

[Benski]

:yield:Thanks you guys! I know the crank bolt was not torqued properly because I did it. It was a new bolt and it had plenty of loc-tite. I've seen now how people have used chain to prevent the crank from turning while torqueing the bolt. What I used was braced on the ground and when I applied force the truck raised up and the crank turned, so I got it as tight as I could. It was my first tb change. I just paid a freelance toyotec $1000 for a "top engine seal" aka valve cover gasket, plug and seal change, and to change out 6 injectors. Does that seem reasonable? I'm thinking of having him tackle the timing issue since I was probably the cause of it...

I have a fairly new computer and have not figured out how to upload pics.

 

[TheDurk]

:yield:Thanks you guys! I know the crank bolt was not torqued properly because I did it. It was a new bolt and it had plenty of loc-tite. I've seen now how people have used chain to prevent the crank from turning while torqueing the bolt. What I used was braced on the ground and when I applied force the truck raised up and the crank turned, so I got it as tight as I could. It was my first tb change. I just paid a freelance toyotec $1000 for a "top engine seal" aka valve cover gasket, plug and seal change, and to change out 6 injectors. Does that seem reasonable? I'm thinking of having him tackle the timing issue since I was probably the cause of it...

I have a fairly new computer and have not figured out how to upload pics.

Wait on the pics. Now we know uhhhh...you were underattentive on the torque process (sorry about the 'halfass"), you have to pull harmonic balancer, key and sprocket and inspect crank for damage. If the HB is slipping, it doesn't matter what the marks show. Keep your fingers crossed crank is okay. Key and HB are probably toast, sprocket is a 'maybe.' I do my own work, so I can't comment much on mechanic charges, but if it included 6 new OEM injectors it's probably a decent deal. I'd turn him loose on the crank bolt issue. Ask him if he is knows 5VZ-FE crank bolt torque. If he really is a 'toyotech', he should know. It's one spec we all remember who have done this job even once.

You may want to talk to your guy about sourcing a junkyard HB. They ain't cheap.

But post pics of HB, including shaft hole and keyway, likewise sprocket, and crank tip.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Its also possible you are off one belt cog down at the crank. It takes some effert to get the cog in the proper slot on the crank while keeping everything where it belongs, even with the tensioner pulled back and pinned.