Tips for welding? Mostly safety First time welding a truck frame

[shahsmerdis]

Hi everyone,

We are going to attempt to patch a few holes in our frame this weekend. I found a buddy who can weld, but he mostly welds structural steel for homes not for cars. Our concerns are the metal might be too thin that what he is use too.

Anything we should look out for? Hes taking a look at it this weekend, but he says he doesn't think he would have any problems.

What thickness steel plates should we use? Dad says we have 1/8th in steel laying around, is that too thick?


I realized I sprayed my hole frame with fluid film, its going to be really fun trying to get that all out of the frame. apparently the flash point of fluid film is 405F. pretty sure that is like lighting fire to old dry leaves

the area in question: definitely caught it early!

https://goo.gl/photos/mFfynsMZGHBD5iRR6


Any reason why we can't bolt something on with a few love touches of the welder? or combination of both?

most important major safey questions: this is in the front cross member near the cat, so its pretty far away from the gas tank, if we just un screw the battery are there any other safey issues we should consider? We will have access to high pressure/ high flow water near by. I read we should have the gas tank full. anything else?

Quality of work we are looking for, something to hopefully make the car last 3 more years, pass inspection. I'm pretty much done with this car.


Thanks in advance guys.

 

[rubegoldberg]

1/8th should be fine


after you're done you might want to consider a few cans on this stuff

Internal Frame Coating w/Spray Nozzle | Eastwood

 

[MN4runnerman]

Shit I used 3/16 steel mainly cuz I had it lying around. All I can say is get a leather apron or something. I was on my back and some molten metal came down and burned through the 3 shirts I had and got me good on my stomach.

 

[NHRunner]

I used scrap 3/16 just because thats what I had too. Wear a bandana or you will be ripping your mask off in limited space while you try to dig a big drop of molten steel out of your scalp. Just cut out the rusty steel, lap weld in the patch, grind, clean, paint, and recoat with FF again!

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[shahsmerdis]

okay thanks for the amazing tips guys !

Any level of heat/amps too much, or whatever gets the job done?

any specific type of welding tips? I don't know anything about welding, just trying to get what i need for my friend a head of time.

Thanks.

 

[amalik]

check out the welding section at garage journal as well.

 

[OneOffStroker]

If you spray down the spots that you need to weld with brake cleaner or acetone, it should remove the Fluid Flim and you won't have that to worry about. If your friend is a welder, let him worry about amps and voltage and just weld the thing. Once you begin to weld, you will realize in a hurry that it isn't as precise of a process as you currently think it is.

Basically, don't overthink it. Just weld it.

 

[MStudt]

Set your welder to weld the thickness of the steel you're welding on. All welders will have a guide under the lid to tell you what it needs to be set at. Since you're going to be welding in thicker steel that's where you want the heat. Start your weld on the thick side, and drag you puddle to the thin side.

 

[bam bam Benton]

Like they said...Turn it down a bit with some steel inside of the hole(backing plate or insert), small welds, clean, repeat.
Safety wise, keep fire ex. handy and watch for the welder. Don't drop a hot welding rod and roll over on it! Small mig welder will prob be more user friendly than stick if possible...

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[shahsmerdis]

So I think we did worse than good this weekend... then again I can't really say anything bad because practically no cost to me.

kinda embarrassed to post...

https://goo.gl/photos/9QUjZstQ3fJqmtDb8

It looks like shit, but spray paint and hopefully mr/ms inspector doesn't care!

 

[MN4runnerman]

Hey that looks about as good as one could get it especially since your working in tight spaces on your back. Clean it up with paint and you'll be good to go.

 

[shahsmerdis]

Hey that looks about as good as one could get it especially since your working in tight spaces on your back. Clean it up with paint and you'll be good to go.

Hey thanks, I appreciate the vote of confidence.

This car has been nothing but stress, and its not even my car. (Family car) . All I can do is try right ? I doubt dealership is going to want to pass it. 2-3 more years out of this, all i need !

edit: in 2-3 years it will probably have 135k miles on it tops, probably will get a pretty penny for tranny and engine, (rides like butter)

 

[SlickmisterN]

Looks pretty good, and as long as the metal was shiny and cleaned with a grinder and wire wheel before adding the scab/fish plates The repair should last. Were you using 6011 and 7018 rods?

 

[RedSled]

I have to be honest here, you guys are sugar coating it pretty good. I do not think those welds are going to hold up, but if all you care about is to pass inspection, then carry on.

 

[shahsmerdis]

I have to be honest here, you guys are sugar coating it pretty good. I do not think those welds are going to hold up, but if all you care about is to pass inspection, then carry on.

Problem was, there was too much fluid film in frame so it smoked a lot. I cleaned it out per FF instructions, still was there. Brake clean did nothing, water based degreaser was better. so I don't think he was able to do hold on the frame too long. I guess that is improper prep for you..

For sure its not as clean as other peoples welds ive seen here, but there is the inside frame, which was not completely rotten out + Patch. Better than nothing? Or could the heat damage frame more? what do you mean when people say it will not hold up?, does it just come apart? or it will start cracking up slowly ?

I Hope it outlasts the car. The thing that pains me is we is we already spent ~1.5k-2k on this car last year. Mostly on me being persistent. Not to mention 100 hours of of hours here on the forums. While I have learned just about everything there is to know about a 3rd gen 4runner. I guess it was probably cheaper to get another high mileage 3rd gen, or bad engine and swap my 3rd gen engine and tranny in it.

like my dad said, if i tutored on the side at 40-50 bucks an hour, instead of thinking of this car, I would have probably made half way to a new car by now. The next thing I need to decide is if i want to put tires on this thing or not. Old tires are not usable in the snow.

Idk anymore? *head spin*

 

[RedSled]

Problem was, there was too much fluid film in frame so it smoked a lot. I cleaned it out per FF instructions, still was there. Brake clean did nothing, water based degreaser was better. so I don't think he was able to do hold on the frame too long. I guess that is improper prep for you..

For sure its not as clean as other peoples welds ive seen here, but there is the inside frame, which was not completely rotten out + Patch. Better than nothing? Or could the heat damage frame more? what do you mean when people say it will not hold up?, does it just come apart? or it will start cracking up slowly ?

I Hope it outlasts the car. The thing that pains me is we is we already spent ~1.5k-2k on this car last year. Mostly on me being persistent. Not to mention 100 hours of of hours here on the forums. While I have learned just about everything there is to know about a 3rd gen 4runner. I guess it was probably cheaper to get another high mileage 3rd gen, or bad engine and swap my 3rd gen engine and tranny in it.

like my dad said, if i tutored on the side at 40-50 bucks an hour, instead of thinking of this car, I would have probably made half way to a new car by now. The next thing I need to decide is if i want to put tires on this thing or not. Old tires are not usable in the snow.

Idk anymore? *head spin*

This is just my opinion, the welds look to me like they are golng to crack because of poor penetration.

 

[shahsmerdis]

went to another place, no bribing needed, no questions asked inspected!

 

[Scramble]

You've got a bunch of money & time into it already. Might as well keep going with the low miles it has. People spend more on a rear custom swingout bumper than what you have into it. I drilled extra drain holes in the bottom of my frame to help get the moisture & dirt out from water crossings, rain & snow. I also pressure wash the inside. I still need to spray the Eastwood internal frame coating. I'd stay away from the FF if more repairs are in the future. Primer & paint are easier to remove & clean. I'd stick with Eastwood or POR15 products.

 

[shahsmerdis]

You've got a bunch of money & time into it already. Might as well keep going with the low miles it has. People spend more on a rear custom swingout bumper than what you have into it. I drilled extra drain holes in the bottom of my frame to help get the moisture & dirt out from water crossings, rain & snow. I also pressure wash the inside. I still need to spray the Eastwood internal frame coating. I'd stay away from the FF if more repairs are in the future. Primer & paint are easier to remove & clean. I'd stick with Eastwood or POR15 products.

Yeah, I'm definitely going to keep it going. next big investment will be new tires, old ones are 9 years old and 3mm left. they are toast. Waiting on costco sale, 130 dollars off (70 dollars off + free install) then will price match the different to tirerack /w my credit card. looking at getting michelin MS LTX's Can't wait. they should dramatically improve ride quality. Should have gotten the brigestone dueler h/l alenza plus last month, when they were 550 dollars including install and tax.

I'd love to pressure wash except access to a hose in winter is tough, the area in which i have a hose too ices up in the winter.

 

[Scramble]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to keep it going. next big investment will be new tires, old ones are 9 years old and 3mm left. they are toast. Waiting on costco sale, 130 dollars off (70 dollars off + free install) then will price match the different to tirerack /w my credit card. looking at getting michelin MS LTX's Can't wait. they should dramatically improve ride quality. Should have gotten the brigestone dueler h/l alenza plus last month, when they were 550 dollars including install and tax.

I'd love to pressure wash except access to a hose in winter is tough, the area in which i have a hose too ices up in the winter.

haha, yea, I dont use the hose or pressure waster in the winter either. I dont need an ice skating rink in my driveway! I use the car wash in the winter. :thumb: