Tire and Suspension Issues--Please Help

[ecufishbowl]

Alright I've been dealing with this for over a month and a half...

I neglected to get my tires rotated for a year after I put them on. They are 255/75R17 Duratracs. I also put on the Daystar 2.5/1.5 spacer lift on. It is an 08' with 96,000 miles on it.

I stopped in the shop for an oil change and mentioned that my front tires had started to make a humming noise. He looked at my front tires and said they were "chopped". Come to find out that because I hadn't gotten my tires rotated they hadn't noticed that my alignment was slightly off. So had my car re-aligned and tires rotated. They put the front tires on the rear and said it should be good now.

So after I had my tires rotated, my alignment felt off alittle. So I took it to the shop again and they said they should have done the alignment AFTER rotating the tires. So they fixed the alignment again.

I still felt like the alignment was off and that my steering wheel felt alittle loose.
So I took the truck back and they decided there was a tiny bit of play in my tie rods. So I had to have those replaced (cost me over $400...). Then they said that its likely that I need new front suspension. They quoted me around $1500 for new front struts and CV axles that would still give me the 2inches of lift up front. He barely touched my truck on the corners to diagnose that... I haven't felt any bouncing off speed bumps or anything like that... I felt suspicious that they were just taking me for a ride.

I wanted a second opinion so I took my truck to another place that I used to take my old 4runner to. I explained to him what they did and what they said. He had me leave it there with them for a day and would do a look over. He called me the next day and told me that he didn't see anything wrong with the exception of a little grease from the CV boot but that it didn't need to be replaced just yet... He said if it were his truck, he wouldn't do any work to it right now. He also said the suspension looked and felt fine.

I'm at a loss at this point. I'm a public school teacher and don't have much extra cash at the moment so spending over $1k on my truck would really be difficult. I really need to know for sure what the issues are...

At this point I haven't done anything else except the tie-rods at the first shop. My tire noise is horrible but I was told that now that the alignment is correct the tires should wear back out to even over time. I'm posting a picture to show what the front tires looked like (now on back after rotation). I'm not sure if this is "cupping" or "feathering" and if I should be blaming the suspension and completely replacing the front... I'm concerned I'm going to ruin the other two tires that are now up front..

Any help figuring out what I should do would be greatly appreciated.

I can't win.. I thought I could post pictures of it using my photobucket but I'm assuming you guys can't see the pictures..

 

[Morphyne]

The second guy is right. you are just fine. your tires are feathered because you didn't rotate them. it'll cost you a little tread life, but overall your tires and truck will be just fine. As far as the loose feel of the steering wheel, it could just be bc you have new tie rods and your steering now has a different feel.

With a 9 year old truck with @100k on it, you are going to have stuff start to wear out. shocks are really only optimal for the first 50k plies of use and after that their performance starts to fade. Shocks should be replaced at a minimum, every 100k and that is being generous. Also, your ball joints, wheel bearings, and bushings are going to start giving you trouble.

Don't get down quite yet. you have a fantastic vehicle that is going to require some maintenance over the next year or so.

as far as the first guy, i feel like he was trying to help you find answers. he wasn't wrong when he said you could use new front shocks. as far as the CVs go, the boots tear, especially when you lift it. in the south, a torn boot is no big deal. all it does is make you loose grease fro the knuckle in the CV. you can drive like this for a long time. once the CV starts clicking, then replace. you might as well get your moneys worth out of them.

The reason the first guy said replace them, is bc it is just as cheap to replace the CV axle as it is to reboot them.

if it were me. i would drive it and save some cash for some new shocks and springs and pay attention to the ball joint, CV axle, wheel bearing, and bushing and end link health of the vehicle. because eventually those will all need work. i also would recommend learning how to work on your own vehicle. its not as hard as you think, and the purchase of a few choice tools, youtube videos, and parts from auto zone will save you thousands.

TLDR: I think you'll be just fine.

 

[ecufishbowl]

Morphyne thanks for the response. Very helpful.

If I'm saving up for new shocks, do I just get Bilstein 5100's adjustable? Do I need new springs too if I want to maintain a 2" lift (so that i can keep my 32" tires that are on it).

Are they correct in saying my feathered tires should wear back down to even if my alignment is correct?

 

[gfluff]

I'm with Mr. Morphyne on this.
Truck likely needs new shocks due to age, but not an emergency and not the cause of past front end issues. With alignment, what feels good isn't necessarily best for the tires. The lift likely gave you extra toe-in, which makes the steering feel tighter as the wheels are pointed at each other a bit and fighting each other. The alignment hopefully fixed that, but that changes the feeling. Tie rods were probably not needed, but you live and learn.
Start saving for new shocks and learn how to install yourself...not hard and much cheaper? Keep your eye on the other front end parts, they will wear...but you don't have high miles so I bet there are no huge emergencies there either...
Just my 2 cents...can't see the pics, can't tell if there are any other factors....

 

[ecufishbowl]

<img src="https://vgy.me/0NWFLS.jpg">
<img src="https://vgy.me/0OFwhl.jpg">
Photobucket is only letting me post one picture for whatever reason, but you can see that certain treads are not contacting the ground like others. The dirt on the other two tires have equal coverage on each tread. I have a picture from the side of the tread blocks but photobucket won't let me post. If anyone knows a better place to upload and embed photos to the forum for free, let me know..

 

[gfluff]

Morphyne thanks for the response. Very helpful.

If I'm saving up for new shocks, do I just get Bilstein 5100's adjustable? Do I need new springs too if I want to maintain a 2" lift (so that i can keep my 32" tires that are on it).

Are they correct in saying my feathered tires should wear back down to even if my alignment is correct?

Bils are great for 95% of the people. Simple, reliable, and a good ride for a mostly street driven truck. Do FJ or Tacoma springs on them, the truck will feel great. Tons of threads on that, do some searching here to see what you like.

Edit* seeing your new pic, they don't look bad.
PS--I work in a tire shop...trying to be helpful!

As for tire wear...minor feathering might go away over time...major will not. It will get better, but not fully disappear. They moved them front to back, but I would also have swapped them left to right if they did not. Playing with PSIs a bit will also have an effect on them.

 

[RonJR]

What do you mean when you say "the alignment felt off"? A little more detail on that would be helpful.

I agree that the lift will cause toe-in to change, which could have had an adverse effect on tire wear. The other thing the lift will cause is reduced caster, which will cause the vehicle to wander more on the highway and not feel as stable. With 2 1/2 inches of lift, the alignment shop might be able get the caster up to the low end of the spec (~2.5deg), but for really solid tracking, you want it more nearer the high end of the spec (~ 4deg). To get it that high you'll likely need aftermarket upper control arms.

If you can live with the reduced feeling of stability, there's no problem driving the vehicle with the reduced caster. It's a subjective preference thing.

Maybe you could post the results from your last alignment. Most shops will give you a before-and-after print-out of what they achieved.

Toe-in is by far the most important alignment spec for tire wear. Camber is next, and caster is almost irrelevant in that regard.

 

[S p a r k y]

To answer one question that seems you don't have an answer. I hate to say, but no those 2 dura's making the noise probably will not get quieter. They look pretty bad, to get rid of noise, but two more to replace and use one as a spare. Sale the other to recoop some cost of two new. Same thing happened to me. I just lived with the noise.

Dura's over time get pretty darn loud, tons of reviews on that.

Lesson to this is, make sure you rotate aggressive tires. Off road guys or aggressive tire guys will say 3k or 5k rotations. Anytime suspension is touched, you need an alignment. Especially on a lifted toyota.

 

[ecufishbowl]

To answer one question that seems you don't have an answer. I hate to say, but no those 2 dura's making the noise probably will not get quieter. They look pretty bad, to get rid of noise, but two more to replace and use one as a spare. Sale the other to recoop some cost of two new. Same thing happened to me. I just lived with the noise.

Dura's over time get pretty darn loud, tons of reviews on that.

Lesson to this is, make sure you rotate aggressive tires. Off road guys or aggressive tire guys will say 3k or 5k rotations. Anytime suspension is touched, you need an alignment. Especially on a lifted toyota.

If I just live with the noise, am I doing any harm to any other components by driving on them with the feathering?

 

[Morphyne]

If I just live with the noise, am I doing any harm to any other components by driving on them with the feathering?

No it Wil not.

 

[ecufishbowl]

Thank you everyone for the responses. I'm going to look into possibly getting new shocks in the somewhat-near-future. One other question I have; can anyone confirm that this is "feathering" or is it "cupping"? or does it not really make a difference in identifying the issue?..

 

[Morphyne]

Feathering and cupping are different. But in your case it doesn't matter. Just as long as you properly rotate your tires, maintain go tire pressure and allignerment you should be fine.

 

[ecufishbowl]

My nightmare continues....

I took it around the corner to Sears Automotive for one last opinion. He took it for a drive around the block, he came back and said “yeah it’s not aligned”. He asked if anyone had looked at my rack and pinion bushings. I told him I didn’t think so. He explained that they had a car before that wouldn’t stay in alignment and it ended up being the rack and pinion bushing. He put It up on the lift, had someone move the wheel back and forth while someone underneath watched the one bushing they could see. He told me sure enough it was moving when the steering wheel went back and forth.

Okay, a couple bushings can’t be a big deal, right?

He calls all the auto parts stores and they all tell him that they can’t get the bushings. Finally someone tells him that you can’t just buy the bushing, you have to buy an entire new steering rack (which includes inner tie rods that I just paid $500 to have replaced 2 weeks ago). Grand total, $1095 not including the alignment that will need to be done afterwards.

I give up. I don’t know what to do at this poInt. My last option is go to Toyota and have them look and confirm and maybe they’ll have another option. I really hate our Toyota as they have blatantly lied to me in the past and when I called them on it they got pissy with me.

Any ideas on where to go from here?...

 

[blackoutt]

Duratracs get loud. Those are feathered out quite hard. You could try running different tire pressures for a while to even them out but I doubt you'll ever get those tires cleaned up perfectly back into shape.

For steering rack yes the bushings are said to only be replaceable with the entire rack. There are a couple people who have attempted to replace them on their existing rack but they agreed for the labor of pulling the rack you might as well put a new one in. Now are your bushings really bad? Take it back to mechanic #2, he sounds honest. They are bushings, they are made to move, they will move a little when you shake the wheel, especially with heavier tire momentum pulling on either end of the rack. You could also post a video of the movement to get more of our "desk chair expert" opinions!

 

[jrm]

Could you take pics

of the alignment results, SIZE THEM DOWN and post them here? for reference.

 

[ecufishbowl]

of the alignment results, SIZE THEM DOWN and post them here? for reference.

Here is my most recent one. In all of the alignments my right toe would go out of spec. This most recent one has both toes going out. Not sure what would make only the toe fall out of alignment..