Tire Review - Michelin Defenders Go On Road and Off
- Thread starter Bluesky 07
- Start date
Thai
Elite Member
Yeah, i am pretty sure (90%) that i will get Defenders once my stock tires wear out (Bridgestone Dueler HT). It is proven tough (apparently enough to air down), lighter weight than GY (by 2-3 lbs per tire), has lower rolling resistance than GY, long treadwear, and it’s a Michelin.
MAST4R
New member
Again, you should be fine with the Defenders. But modern design AT tires do not really sacrifice road performance, at least nothing that a BoF vehicle will feel. The GX is a lot better than the TRD 4Runner on road, but you won't be cornering as in an Audi or a Subaru anyway.
So all the tires mentioned above will do. If you want a tire specifically designed to do well in rain, consider the Continental Terrain Contact AT. They also track extremely well on dirt. But they are not as strong as the Wildpeak; there is no way I take a Conti AT where I take the Wildpeaks. They lack any real shoulder protectors and they also lack any biting edges for the loose stuff.
That aside, you are missing a couple points:
First, in general, brand name for tires is just that, a brand name. Here is a 65-page AAA tire study telling you that much:
https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/Tire-Study-Report.pdf
I will agree about Michelin vs a minor/new/unproved brand. But to say that Goodyear or BFG is somehow better than Toyo, Nitto, or Falken is just brand obsession. These are actual brands, not some unproven startups.
Second, Sumitomo, in particular, is the world's 5th largest tiremaker. It is not a marginal, small, or second-class company. Wildpeak AT3W and MT are the tires offered on the new Jeep Gladiator Rubicon trim. If that's not a good enough endorsement from the industry itself, I don't know what is. Sure, the Wildpeaks are made in Thailand.
Third, the tires you have in mind DO NOT have kevlar in the sidewalls. The P-metric version has some kevlar in the tread and the LT version has more. You need to go to MT-R to get Kevlar in the sidewalls. The GY MT-R is actually the tire I wanted when I was looking for a trail rig before deciding to buy a new 4Runner instead. You keep citing those reviews you found, but you can bet they are about the LT versions. If you want to talk LT tires that's different. I have been talking P metric in this thread. And for that, I am a better resource that what you have linked, lol.
At the end, any of the tires mentioned in this thread will do the job for you. Maybe just get those Defenders and call it a day. I go through tires in 2 years or less so for me getting it perfectly right the first time around is not as big of a deal as if I were wearing a set over 5-6 years.
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Thai
Elite Member
Man, you really like your Wildpeak!
Yes, mild AT tires are getting more well-rounded. But according to one member on ClubLexus, Wildpeaks noise levels are indeed significant at highway speeds: Falken Wilkpeak AT3w on stock wheels - Page 2 - ClubLexus - Lexus Forum Discussion
Continental AT is a great tire for sure. But i do worry about rolling resistance, which may affect fuel economy in my thirsty V8 GX. The same worry for the Goodyear AT Kevlar too.
TireRack also does comparisons of tires and there are indeed differences b/w the brands. If everything is same, then why are we having this discussion b/w WildPeaks and Conti's and Michelin, etc..
But getting back to your argument.......it is NOT me that is brand bias. Take a look at how Discount Tire classify your tire vs. Goodyear or Conti. Your tire is 2nd tier in THEIR eyes.
For me, i spend money on what i think is quality based on past experiences and how they are classified. Please note.....i am NOT a newbie to cars, off-roading, or tires.
Well, Bridgestone Dueler HT is offered on my (relatively) expensive Lexus GX......does that mean that it must be a luxurious as hell good tire?
Goodyear AT Kevlar is offered as standard equipment tires on Tacomas, including TRG PRO. Does that naturally mean that they are big ballers?
It is hard to say that these OEMs get these tires because they are good for the customer or they are good for OEM's pocket books? Maybe a little of both? Who knows?!
Goodyear AT Kevlar has Kevlar in the tread, not sidewall. YET, in one of the biggest review of off-roading tires, Goodyear AT Kevlar has a nearly as strong sidewall as BFG KO2......and as you said, without help from Kevlar. And that Durawall technology is the same whether you have LT or P-metric GY AT Kevlar. But feel free to puncture test your tires against GY or Michelin...and report back.
Although i appreciate your enthusiasm, but your condescending tone is getting old dude. Yeah, you are a great resource.... :toilet3:
And no dude, i did not miss any points. But thanks anyways.
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MAST4R
New member
Man, you really like your Wildpeak!
Yes, mild AT tires are getting more well-rounded. s.
Yeah, that's the gist of my point.
Haha, yeah, I will like them until I burst a sidewall in a really bad spot. Then I won't. That's the issue with civilized tires: they can prove themselves, but never enough because one scary event, such as a sidewall burst on a tight, steep shelf road, would be enough to ruin the experience of thousands of uneventful off-pavement miles. Such is the predicament of looking for an all-purpose tire.
I don't remember any mpg hit from the Conti AT though by that point I was 5 years removed from pure street tires.
As for certain tires being used as stock tires, I think that what it means is, yes, partly that a deal was cut that worked for both parties, but I also think it guarantees a minimum level of street performance.
It could be that said Adventure tire is perfect for you. Maybe ask DT if they have a trial period? Some tires do. Maybe they can work out a deal with you so that you could return them if you try them and don't like them.
Good luck either way. :thumb:
Thai
Elite Member
But your Wildpeak sidewall did pop according to you....
MAST4R
New member
As I said, I was aired down against my own advice. I was not crawling either. So I take that to be my error until it happens at proper for P metric psi and crawling speed.
We have driven 11 desert trails in the same area since without issues, at 33 psi.
In addition, it was annoying, but it was not dangerous. I did have to drive another 10 yards on the wheel to get to a flatter spot and we did block the trail while replacing the tire as the next wider spot was too far but it was not a dangerous situation. Just annoying.
Thai
Elite Member
Bluesky 07
Senior Member
CookieRoe
Senior Member
I got Michelin LTX M/S2 several years ago. About 20-30K miles later, the tread was still fine on them, but they were dry-rotting. I had them prorated at a Toyota dealer (Michelin dealer) and, of course, were given new ones. Anyway, a few years later, they are dry rotting yet again. I have a low tolerance "crap" and went with Bridgestone Dueler Alenzas H/L plus. Can't comment except that they have only have about 200 miles on them so far.
I've been warned by my friends about Michelins and the dry rotting problem they have. Now that I've gone through this first hand, I'll more than likely NOT get that brand again. Having that said, these same folks tell me that the tread lasts a good long time. I've had Primacy's on my DD (Civic) and loved them. I got about 70K miles off them, yet I only had them for about 2-3 years. No dry rot to report on them.
If you guys plan on having them for a long time (more than 3-4 years), be aware of this. If not, then I guess it's a moot point. I have to doubt these Defenders are great tires, but don't count on them not deteriorating before their time.
My 2 cents.
I've been warned by my friends about Michelins and the dry rotting problem they have. Now that I've gone through this first hand, I'll more than likely NOT get that brand again. Having that said, these same folks tell me that the tread lasts a good long time. I've had Primacy's on my DD (Civic) and loved them. I got about 70K miles off them, yet I only had them for about 2-3 years. No dry rot to report on them.
If you guys plan on having them for a long time (more than 3-4 years), be aware of this. If not, then I guess it's a moot point. I have to doubt these Defenders are great tires, but don't count on them not deteriorating before their time.
My 2 cents.
sharpie223
Junior Member
I am likely to get defenders once my current, crappy, improperly rotated tires wear out, but have thought about some ATs as well if there was one with a good on road design since 95%+ of my driving is on pavement. For those who have had an AT with good road handling and the defenders, what kind of MPG difference did you see?
Thai
Elite Member
So, with Michelin being so darn good (rep wise), i emailed Michelin asking about their sidewall.
This was my question to Michelin:
“I am shopping for tires to replace my OEM (Bridgestone Dueler
HT). I am interested in Michelin Defender LTX M/S. But i have a few
question. Defender has 2 steel, 2 polyester, and 1 polyamide for the tread.
Sidewall has 2 plies. My question is...the POLYAMIDE layer...is that just
the cap (tread area only)?? Or does the polyamide reinforcement extend to
the SIDEWALL too?? In other words, is the sidewall on the Defender
reinforced with anything other than 2 polyester plies?? One last
suggestion......can you make Michelin AT-2 in more sizes?! (Is the sidewall
on AT-2 tougher than Defender?) Thank you in advance. (I do plan on going
off-roading a little, nothing extreme...thus, concern about sidewall
strength.)“
This is Michelin response: (great response time too!!)
“Thank you for reaching out regarding the Michelin Defender LTX M/S. The polyamide (nylon) layer is placed above the top steel belt and is directly below the actual tire tread. This layer does not extend to the sidewall of the tire. Sidewalls of a tire are generally non-reinforced, with the exception being Ultra High Performance tires. UHP tires use steel or fabric cords to help strengthen the sidewall for stability in high speed cornering.
The Michelin LTX AT/2 is an all-terrain tire so the actual tread is designed for more off-road usage but the sidewall of the AT/2 isn't necessarily any stronger than that of the Defender LTX. Both tires are available in Load Range E (10ply) strength and have the ability to carry heavy loads and have good light off-road ability.
We hope that your issue has been addressed to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 866-866-6605 (toll-free) between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. EST Monday through Saturday.
We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.
Sincerely,
Craig
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert”
This was my question to Michelin:
“I am shopping for tires to replace my OEM (Bridgestone Dueler
HT). I am interested in Michelin Defender LTX M/S. But i have a few
question. Defender has 2 steel, 2 polyester, and 1 polyamide for the tread.
Sidewall has 2 plies. My question is...the POLYAMIDE layer...is that just
the cap (tread area only)?? Or does the polyamide reinforcement extend to
the SIDEWALL too?? In other words, is the sidewall on the Defender
reinforced with anything other than 2 polyester plies?? One last
suggestion......can you make Michelin AT-2 in more sizes?! (Is the sidewall
on AT-2 tougher than Defender?) Thank you in advance. (I do plan on going
off-roading a little, nothing extreme...thus, concern about sidewall
strength.)“
This is Michelin response: (great response time too!!)
“Thank you for reaching out regarding the Michelin Defender LTX M/S. The polyamide (nylon) layer is placed above the top steel belt and is directly below the actual tire tread. This layer does not extend to the sidewall of the tire. Sidewalls of a tire are generally non-reinforced, with the exception being Ultra High Performance tires. UHP tires use steel or fabric cords to help strengthen the sidewall for stability in high speed cornering.
The Michelin LTX AT/2 is an all-terrain tire so the actual tread is designed for more off-road usage but the sidewall of the AT/2 isn't necessarily any stronger than that of the Defender LTX. Both tires are available in Load Range E (10ply) strength and have the ability to carry heavy loads and have good light off-road ability.
We hope that your issue has been addressed to your satisfaction. If we can assist you further, please respond to this email or call us at 866-866-6605 (toll-free) between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. EST Monday through Saturday.
We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Michelin.
Sincerely,
Craig
Consumer Care Department
Certified Michelin Product Expert”
Thai
Elite Member
My question: When you talk about puncture resistance b/w P-metric and LT, are you talking about the TREAD area or sidewall? Within the same class (Defender LTX), going from P to LT, is there a difference in sidewall strength?
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Michelin response: Regarding puncture resistance I'm technically referring to both. P or LT metric Defender LTX will have the same strength. Even though the LT can carry more weight, those additional plys do no carry over to the sidewall nor do they make the tread area puncture resistant.
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Michelin response: Regarding puncture resistance I'm technically referring to both. P or LT metric Defender LTX will have the same strength. Even though the LT can carry more weight, those additional plys do no carry over to the sidewall nor do they make the tread area puncture resistant.
emulating a postman
Hi folks, I'm new to the forum (and having a 4runner), so I figured I'd piggy back off this review as I can't yet create my own thread. I need some advice, and am hoping that it is relevant to these tires.
Work has changed a bit, and I now need to be a postman, at least in the sense that neither snow, sleet, hale, flooding, mudslides and zombies should stop me from getting to where I'm going.
99% of my driving will be on paved roads, so I need a tire that handles reasonably well there.
At the same time, that 1% is a doozy. I'm in the mid-atlantic area, and some of the locations I have to be able to get to are off poorly maintained dirt roads (which get muddy and/or flooded), as well as traveling these same roads (and paved roads, obviously) in winter, where there can be snow and ice (both plowed and unplowed).
The Michelin LTX AT/2 looked promising for this, but I'd love some forum feedback from all y'all who actually know 4runners and their abilities.
I'm looking for a jack of all trades tire, as well as recommendations for wheels, which fits the bill. Obviously nothing will be perfect, but I'm trying to get something good enough to meet my requirements. I'm afraid that having a second set of wheels with dedicated snow tires isn't practical for this at the moment.
Are stock wheel sizes sufficient? I don't really have the budget to get raised suspension, so if I go larger, I need to limit it to what will fit the 4runner (5th gen) without rubbing.
Any and all advice would be welcome!
Hi folks, I'm new to the forum (and having a 4runner), so I figured I'd piggy back off this review as I can't yet create my own thread. I need some advice, and am hoping that it is relevant to these tires.
Work has changed a bit, and I now need to be a postman, at least in the sense that neither snow, sleet, hale, flooding, mudslides and zombies should stop me from getting to where I'm going.
99% of my driving will be on paved roads, so I need a tire that handles reasonably well there.
At the same time, that 1% is a doozy. I'm in the mid-atlantic area, and some of the locations I have to be able to get to are off poorly maintained dirt roads (which get muddy and/or flooded), as well as traveling these same roads (and paved roads, obviously) in winter, where there can be snow and ice (both plowed and unplowed).
The Michelin LTX AT/2 looked promising for this, but I'd love some forum feedback from all y'all who actually know 4runners and their abilities.
I'm looking for a jack of all trades tire, as well as recommendations for wheels, which fits the bill. Obviously nothing will be perfect, but I'm trying to get something good enough to meet my requirements. I'm afraid that having a second set of wheels with dedicated snow tires isn't practical for this at the moment.
Are stock wheel sizes sufficient? I don't really have the budget to get raised suspension, so if I go larger, I need to limit it to what will fit the 4runner (5th gen) without rubbing.
Any and all advice would be welcome!
Thai
Elite Member
I think Michelin AT2 will be perfect for you. Defender are nice (and prob just as good) but AT tread is more aggressive for that 1%. Defender would not do well in mud.
Thanks for the response! I might just do that, and keep some wheel chains in the back for when the snow gets really hairy.
Yikes, forgot to add. What about sizes? I'm not doing any suspension work (for the foreseeable future, anyway), but I'd like to maximize traction. Is there a recommended wheel size and tire size you could share, or should I stick with stock wheels and tire size?
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