Tire Sidewall Strength and Flats

[Thai]

Hey all,

My brother's Sienna got a flat the other day...down to 7 psi without the tire pressure monitoring going off. It was strange that TPMS did not go off...unfortunately, he is past factory warranty.

This situation brought up a question/curiousity. I have BFG AT KO. Does sidewall strength of the BFG AT KO (3-ply sidewall) help prevent a total blowout if you had a flat on the highway?? In other words, a run-flat tire works by having super strong/stiff sidewall which supports the vehicle when a flat happens. Granted, the BFG AT KO sidewall is not as stiff, but could it's strong sidewall help prevent a major catastrophy by maintaining some sidewall strength instead of just going flat when air leaks out...thus, giving a slight more degree of control during a flat?? In addition, could you "limp" home with very low psi with a tire like BFG better than say a passenger tire??

Thanks in advance.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I feel like a political candidate with this answer to your question. In other words it

 

[Thai]

Chris...thanks for that explanation...makes good sense. If you sounded like a politician, then that makes you a rare politician that i can tolerate!

Thanks again.

 

[Falls]

Interesting read.

Are all sidewalls created equal ?

Is a 2 ply P rated say have the same sidewall strength as a Nitto, GY SA or a Revo ?

Same goes with a 3 ply . Do they have the same sidewall strength like a BFG AT , and other 3 ply sidewalls ?

How could you tell which sidewall is stronger between tires ?

Both Thai's point and CJ's point make sense , but I do agree is VISUALLY easier to see a low on air P vs a LT (3) ply. Going from my experience of have many BFG's and this last set of P Revos .

 

[Thai]

Falls, i did call Michelin a while back when i was shopping for AT tires. I asked Michelin consumer guy point blank, "Is there a difference between the sidewall strength of Michelin LTX A/T-2 P-rated vs. LT-rated?" (Remember, all LTX A/T-2 tires have 2-ply sidewall.) Michelin guy stated that there was indeed a difference. LT-rated A/T-2 tire has stronger/bigger "cords" to give it more strength over a P-rated tire. So, although, both are 2-ply sidewalls, the construction is more heavy-duty in the LT tire. Of course, this makes perfect sense since LT-rated tires can carry more load and is abused more often.

I would pick a LT tire over a P tire for my G500 anyway, but after talking with this seemingly knowledgeable Michelin guy, it pretty much sealed the argument (in my head) for me. (Of course, if i had a CRV or RAV4, then i would not care much.)

Now, comparing two brands with similar ply construction is much tougher...and i don't how to get an answer like that because each brand will say that they are the best....

 

[Falls]

Yes that is correct , and I would expect a 3 ply to be stronger than a 2 ply.

I guess I was asking the impossible question ....lol are they created equal between 3's and 2's . Like you said and from my current shopping , everyone has the best.

 

[Thai]

One more note that i forgot to write above...i did ask the Michelin guy, "Is the LTX A/T-2 Load Range E sidewall as strong as BFG AT KO?" He said immediately that the two tires have different purposes (and different audiences) and said that the BFG sidewall is likely stronger and can take more abuse off-road. So, i guess that answered your 3ply vs. 2ply question. (BTW, for those who don't know, BFG is owned by Michelin.)

 

[CJ3Flyr]

My understanding is LT's can be 2 or 3-ply sidewalls. If they are 2-ply they're obviously some heavy plies with lots of rubber. If 3 ply the material may or may not include a full steel belt casing. A full steel casing is much harder to find. In searching for trailer tires for the boat below I chose these: http://www.bridgestonetire.com/tireselector/GlamourIndex_BS_EN.aspx?productID=1121, Bridgestone R250s. In my research I learned 3-ply is easy to find. True truck tires, the ride be damned type, sometimes offer the normal steel tread plies plus one steel ply that wraps all the way to the bead. I chose these Bridgestones because 3-ply (1 steel) sidewalls and all the curb scrubbing this rig does.

**** Cepek, Nitto, BFG and others tout reinforced sidewalls to resist the torture off-roading can give a tire. Does a LT 'E' rated Revo, GSA etc have a sidewall comparable to a BFG? I don't know. I am sure it's more than the 'P' tire. Substantially more material with better resistance to tearing over it's 'P' counterpart? I don't know. I doubt it's more than a **** Cepek, Nitto or BFG etc.

I do know non-commercial, non-hardcore off-road tires try to balance weight carrying ability and ride quality. The only way to do that is keep some flex in the sidewall and overall low tire weight which can't bode well for sidewall strength.

:cheers:


EDIT: No, that's not my T4R pulling the boat :lmao::lmao: And I repeated mostly what Falls & Thai wrote as I was uploading the photo and doing my two finger typing They're too fast for me...

 

[Falls]

I will probably stay with a P rated AT tire since I need the best for each purpose. Lets face it for my 4R even though I'm always off driving in someplace I shouldn't be , I drive a lot of miles so decent road manners/ride are important too.

I have no doubt that after all the BFG AT's I have had they are one tough tire !! I've never had a flat with BFG's since 1985 when I bought my 1st set and have run them on everything until I got the 4R and went to Revos.

CJ , Is that your boat ??? OMG it is beautiful !!!! Give me some specs on it . I will share that pic with my dad , he will melt in his shoes. Last time I drove something like that was a few years back and it was a 1947 Chriscraft ( not sure of spelling ) . Much smaller though. Would love to see more pics or email them to me .

 

[CJ3Flyr]

It's my bosses boat. It's a 36'x8'6" Hacker built by Hugh Saint Custom Boats in Cape Coral. The boat was commissioned for build as a Hacker triple cockpit open boat. The original buyer ran out of money and my boss walked into Saint Custom Boats and saw it circa 2001. With the aid of Hugh and Charlie Janus (Blackfin and many others) turned it into a commuter style attempting to stay faithful to John Hacker designs but in a 2005 kinda way. Hacker made some very similar boats. This boat was made with the intent of "what would John do today". It has two HO8.1L Crusaders w/ZF 2:1 reduction transmissions. It is seriously overpowered. With 16 people it'd yank 3 skiers like it was nothing. As we were spec

 

[Falls]

Thanks , thats just beautiful.

Thai , that makes sense. Just like an AT 2 ply tire vs a hiway 2 ply or a 2 ply for the car.

Must be why so many 1/2 ton trucks come with P rated tires on them .