Tow Rating
- Thread starter Koz
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
CAN-03runner
New member
I'm not the towing expert around here, and I don't know where you want to go with your thread. But if for good general discussion.....
I think a big factor that messes with that old theory is braked trailer vs non-braked trailers. If you look at many trucks, without trailer brakes the offical rating is like 1-1500lbs and braked it like is 5000lbs. Big difference.
Plus the load balancing hithces, and sway control hitches, and helper air bag springs. All this messes with what you can tow.
The biggest factor for me, is still probably trailer brakes.
I think a big factor that messes with that old theory is braked trailer vs non-braked trailers. If you look at many trucks, without trailer brakes the offical rating is like 1-1500lbs and braked it like is 5000lbs. Big difference.
Plus the load balancing hithces, and sway control hitches, and helper air bag springs. All this messes with what you can tow.
The biggest factor for me, is still probably trailer brakes.
Koz
New member
Any trailer 2K lbs or more must/should have brakes so I'm not sure why a non-brake trailer would even factor in. My post was intended for anyone who is considering towing and they want to know how much weight they can expect to safely tow without adding any kind of WD or sway devices.
Even though this is an old "rule of thumb" it seems newer people towing think they can get a trailer that weighs the max rating and tow it safely without any problems.
Koz
CAN-03runner
New member
Well braked vs non-braked factors in a lot. If you intend to educate people new to towing then your simplistic initial comment would mean that we could tow 3000-4000lbs no problem, non-braked. This is not comforming with your other rule of trailer brakes at 2000lbs. How does a person new to towing automatically know that they should have trailer brakes at 2000lbs, if they don't even start off knowing what their max tow capacity is, let alone even know that trailers have brakes.
Being a 4runner forum I guess info is specific to 4runners. But a friend of mine tows very heavy loads with a recent Tundra and a non-braked heavy steel trailer. I think he is nuts, but he's been towing for over 20 years and feels comfortable doing it.
And not all specs describe tow rating as braked vs non-braked. Ford is an example. It just gives a tow rating. Toyota on the other hand I've seen it described and braked vs non-braked weights. For a novice all the ratings are misleading and confusing. It was and still is for me.
I think a good direction for this thread, or even a new one could be to describe the requirements of towing, what the various ratings mean, different types of hitches, load placement, load tie down.
Thanks for getting the ball rolling, and helping to put some meat in this rather thin section of the forum.
Koz
New member
Every state has some type of brake requirement for a set weight being towed. If the weight is high in that state you will also have a requirement of stopping distance. Just because you live in a state that does not require brakes doesn't mean you can travel across the Country without brakes. You have to meet each state's requirements to travel in that state. What it comes down to is almost all trailers over 1K lbs have brakes. Anyone who tows anything over 1K lbs (without brakes) on the street would be liable and taking a big chance.
Koz
Koz
Last edited:
All this is very important!! It is as important with hitches and brakes and other equipment. Other things to consider are axle ratio, the axle itself, additional coolers, and suspension.
You can't just go out and buy a hitch and bolt it on and think your vehicle can tow as much as if it came with a factory tow package. In many cases there are significant add ons when a vehicle comes with a tow package.
If you look where it says the vehicle tow rating you will see foot notes that will say when properly equipped or may need additional equipment.
TRDCal
New member
Does this go for trailers over 1k lbs or towing anything over 1k lbs. The reason I ask is because I've towed a car on a dolly, total weight probably around 2800lbs and the dolly didn't have brakes or if it did they weren't wired up. I didn't think anything of it and the u-haul employee didn't mention anything (not that that is a good excuse).
So I'm just wonder if I do that again, should I do something differently...I don't like to tempt mother luck!
Pepedog11
New member
I am quite confortable pulling 3500lbs without trailer brakes, though I rather they be there.
Don't forget its back there, know your stopping distance and don't be in a hury. If your up and down hills...use the trans to keep your speed safe. Same rules I paly by even with trailer brakes.
Don't forget its back there, know your stopping distance and don't be in a hury. If your up and down hills...use the trans to keep your speed safe. Same rules I paly by even with trailer brakes.
Koz
New member
Koz
New member
This is all fine and well until there is an emergency/panic stop. Hey, everyone can make choices but no trailer brakes is asking for trouble. Good LUCK!
Koz
OrdnanceMarine
New member
I performed one semi-panic stop when I was test driving with the trailer I now own (2600 lb factory dry weight). The surge brakes on the trailer were not functional (previous owner is a Toyota mechanic but didn't do the simple brake fluid flush every two years on his trailer, go figure) and the lovely sensation of my rear end being pushed around and the resultant yaw which engaged the stability control on my 4Runner leads me to recommend against towing a 3000 lb trailer without brakes. Now that I revamped the trailer with electric brakes and gave them a top-notch controller, emergency braking is WAY more secure. I wouldn't even consider towing for more than a few miles at no more than 25 MPH without trailer brakes.
TRDCal
New member
I wonder why our laws are so relaxed then...Did the stability control keep you straight at all or did the weight of the trailer overpower it?
OrdnanceMarine
New member
I started a mild jack-knife (probably 10-15 degrees or so) and immediately completely let off the brakes. The stability control didn't do anything to counter the jack-knife, just straightened me once I stopped braking. The whole event was probably on the order of 0.5-1.0 sec. and not what I was expecting so my reaction was merely training/instinct. I didn't have the time to think about what to do in response.
TechWrench
Senior Member
:iagree:
It's easy to say that it's only "just this one time", or "I'll be extra careful", but the sad truth is sh*t happens, and most often when you least expect it. I have seen more than a few towing wrecks, and in many cases, it was inexperience or failure to anticipate what was up ahead that caused or contributed to the accident. I'm sure most of us have had, at one time or another, one of those OH SH*T moments on snow or ice when you needed to stop faster than you had expected to. Some times you luck out, and other times..........it doesn't go so well. Towing a heavy trailer can give you one of those 'moments' on a dry, clear day if an idiot in front of you does something stupid. I have been towing for a long time, yet everytime I go out with the camper, I am prepared for a 'bad' day and relieved when it turns out to be an uneventful one. It's not that I am 'afraid' to make the tow, (I'd never leave the driveway if that was the case) but I am constantly aware that this is not a 'normal' trip to the hardware store and drive extra careful. And I always check the equipment before I go, and during the trip.
Last edited:
TRDCal
New member
Oh I see...
As for trailer brakes, having them must be alot less wear and tear on the truck too eh? I recently bought a 14' tandem axle flatbed and it has electric brakes on both axles. But the guy I bought it from (second owner) never had them hooked up.
Whats the chances they'll work without too much trouble. Also are they pretty reliable systems are will I be forever fighting to keep them working? Just curious, I've never dealt with trailer brakes before.
TechWrench
Senior Member
Most trailer brakes are fairly simple. Very simular to standard auto drum brakes, except they are activated electrically instead of using hydrolics. Basically, you have an electro-magnet attached to a lever arm. When power is applied to the electro-magnet, it clamps to a surface of the drum, and this makes the lever cam the brake shoes out to grab the drum and apply braking force. Maintenance is fairly straightforward, check for worn/broken parts, clean and lubricate moving parts, check the electro-magnet circuit, and make final brake shoe adjustments. This is also a good time to check all wheel bearings, and clean/re-pack them as needed.
The electrical power/signal for the electro-magnet is provided by a brake controler in the tow vehicle. There are several different methods by which they work, but the end result is a modulated signal/current which is applied to the electro-mangets when you apply the tow vehicle brakes. If the controller is setup properly, it will increase the amount of current sent to the trailer brakes as you increase the brake pressure in the tow vehicle. When the controller is setup correctly, the trailer brakes will apply with the tow vehicles brakes to help stop the trailer without locking up the wheels or allowing the trailer to push the tow vehicle.
Parts are easily found for most trailer brake systems, and are not that expensive.
OrdnanceMarine
New member
:iagree:
I just went through converting my (new to me) trailer from a rusted out hydraulic (surge) brake system to a Dexter self-adjusting system and was amazed at how simple and inexpensive the electric brake components are. Slapped a quality controller (Tekonsha P3) and couldn't be happier. It works far better than I could have ever imagined. I absolutely didn't like the feeling of being pushed by the trailer when I braked and didn't have working trailer brakes. Now my setup feels well tuned and I don't notice the weight of the trailer when I brake nor do I feel like my vehicle is being pushed around under hard braking.
I just went through converting my (new to me) trailer from a rusted out hydraulic (surge) brake system to a Dexter self-adjusting system and was amazed at how simple and inexpensive the electric brake components are. Slapped a quality controller (Tekonsha P3) and couldn't be happier. It works far better than I could have ever imagined. I absolutely didn't like the feeling of being pushed by the trailer when I braked and didn't have working trailer brakes. Now my setup feels well tuned and I don't notice the weight of the trailer when I brake nor do I feel like my vehicle is being pushed around under hard braking.
TRDCal
New member
Thanks for the info guys.
I see that it's a common thing to get a quality brake controller. Now is in not just a box that sents current to the brakes meaning anyone will be ok or should I not be cheap c*** and get a good one?
The other thing is, my 4runner didn't come with the brake controller pigtail so I guess I'll have to track one down.
I see that it's a common thing to get a quality brake controller. Now is in not just a box that sents current to the brakes meaning anyone will be ok or should I not be cheap c*** and get a good one?
The other thing is, my 4runner didn't come with the brake controller pigtail so I guess I'll have to track one down.
