Towing a-frame popup

[cdrewferd]

Hey guys. I've been thinking about building an off road trailer to pull behind my 4Runner. My ideal setup is an M416 style trailer with a lid and an RTT on top. This would work awesome for my 5 year old and I who would be the main users of the tent and trailer. However, my wife is now wanting to go along more often. She wants a hard wall camper as she hates tents. This has left me with very few options, but I think I found a good one.

Rockwood makes a series of A-Frame hard side pop ups. The one that I like is the A122SXR which has a dry weight of 2100lbs. I like this one as it's the "off road" version and has a bit bigger tires. Here's a link to a local one: Rockwood A frame A122SXR 2015

Here is a link to a similar one, but no off road package: 2015- ROCKWOOD -A122- A- FRAME HARDWALL POPUP

They have electric brakes so I know that will help a lot with stopping. If I get one of these the wife has already agreed to let me do a V8 swap first as the V6 just wouldn't be enough. I'm currently running 34" tires, probably going to true 35's on my next set.

My question is this: Would this setup be easy enough for the 4Runner to pull after a 2UZ V8 swap?

My goal is to get out and explore more of this awesome nation. I want to try and visit every national park in the lower 48 by the time my 5 year old graduates high school. I know her interests may change latter, but if I can get her hooked now maybe it'll stick. The trailer would be towed for all of this. I love driving and would rather drive than fly any day.

My concern is the weight, up to 3000lbs fully loaded, and the ground clearance. I want to be able to get back into the woods a fair bit and I'm just not sure if this trailer will really work for that. It's also pretty wide, so that would have to be taken into consideration. A home built trailer would probably come in a lot closer to 1500lbs total weight, so that's another consideration.

What are everyone's thoughts on this? I want to make this an enjoyable family experience, but at the same time I want to be realistic about it.

 

[slides]

a v8 should not have an issue pulling it. Have you considered upgrading to a 4th gen v8?

 

[cdrewferd]

Considered before, no. Consider for the future, nope. I love my 3rd gen. It's payed off and is a second vehicle for me so the downtime for an engine swap doesn't really matter.

I know that the V8 shouldn't have a problem. I was more wondering if I should go with the bigger trailer. Although I'll have the power, I'll still have the smaller size of the 3rd gen to deal with. Only vehicle I could honestly see myself upgrading to would be a 05-06 double cab Tundra.

 

[Brilliant]

V8 swap means summer will be spent in the garage not outside.

 

[cdrewferd]

Heck no. I can do it over the winter and have everything buttoned up by the time it's nice enough to start camping. I have a fully insulated garage and a propane heater. 15 minutes of that heater being on and I can work in a t-shirt.

I think what I'll probably do is go after the V8 swap. Once I've done that then maybe I can rent one of these pop ups for a weekend and see how things work out.

 

[slides]

Considered before, no. Consider for the future, nope. I love my 3rd gen. It's payed off and is a second vehicle for me so the downtime for an engine swap doesn't really matter.

I know that the V8 shouldn't have a problem. I was more wondering if I should go with the bigger trailer. Although I'll have the power, I'll still have the smaller size of the 3rd gen to deal with. Only vehicle I could honestly see myself upgrading to would be a 05-06 double cab Tundra.

There is nothing better than a free car so now this makes more sense. With the v8 swap and tundra brakes it should be fine and that sounds like a nice garage set up. I have a question though, how does the 4runner handle the weight or a trailer that big. Obviously it will have the power to go and stop but what about handling and getting blown around at hwy speeds. If you have the truck loaded up I don’t see it being an issue but what if its empty?

 

[cdrewferd]

There is nothing better than a free car so now this makes more sense. With the v8 swap and tundra brakes it should be fine and that sounds like a nice garage set up. I have a question though, how does the 4runner handle the weight or a trailer that big. Obviously it will have the power to go and stop but what about handling and getting blown around at hwy speeds. If you have the truck loaded up I don’t see it being an issue but what if its empty?

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I've towed big trailers, but it's always been with a bigger vehicle. My mom had an 04 Sequoia and we towed a 24' Hybrid trailer a lot. It did pretty good. Had a weight equilizer hitch that I'm sure helped a lot. I know with the small trailer it would handle very well, but the larger trailer kinda scares me a bit.

 

[mxer]

You feel you need to swap in a v8 to tow 3000 lbs?

 

[cdrewferd]

You feel you need to swap in a v8 to tow 3000 lbs?

Well, it's a V8, a supercharger, or regear. I don't think that regearing will help with the power needed. I live in Colorado and to get to good camping spots has me going over some long steep passes. The V6 struggles as is, much less with 3000lbs behind it. The 3 above should all be about the same price, but give much different results. These also wouldn't be short towing. Like I said, I want to travel all over the lower 48, that's a lot of towing miles.

 

[A.Wilson013]

Wives are the worst =)

In my experience, with towing just a normal pop-up trailer (It was a Fleetwood E1) the 4Runner had plenty of power (Supercharged, 4.10 gears) and stopping power (Tundra 199 Brakes) but it got VERY squirrely on the freeway when I got into the rutted out sections where the big trucks drive. I am sure there there is a way to fix this, but with just taking the couple trips I had planned with it I didn't want to invest too much. I just put a ball into my factory hitch and pulled.

Long story short, I think that with the V8 swap, one of those anti-sway things you mentioned, a transmission cooler and some bigger brakes you'd be just fine...

Hope it works out for you- that dang thing is SPENDY. If I were looking for a trailer to pull with the 4Runner I'd be looking at those little teardrops... The offroad versions are pretty sweet!

 

[cdrewferd]

Wives are the worst =)

In my experience, with towing just a normal pop-up trailer (It was a Fleetwood E1) the 4Runner had plenty of power (Supercharged, 4.10 gears) and stopping power (Tundra 199 Brakes) but it got VERY squirrely on the freeway when I got into the rutted out sections where the big trucks drive. I am sure there there is a way to fix this, but with just taking the couple trips I had planned with it I didn't want to invest too much. I just put a ball into my factory hitch and pulled.

Long story short, I think that with the V8 swap, one of those anti-sway things you mentioned, a transmission cooler and some bigger brakes you'd be just fine...

Hope it works out for you- that dang thing is SPENDY. If I were looking for a trailer to pull with the 4Runner I'd be looking at those little teardrops... The offroad versions are pretty sweet!

The tear drops are nice, but to have one that would fit the wife, kid and myself would be very large or not nearly big enough. I have Tundra 231mm brakes and a trans cooler. I'm just deciding where to get my extra power from. I think the V8 will happen no matter what. I currently have 260k on my 4Runner, so a new motor isn't a bad thing.

I really wish I could sell her on the home built with the RTT. Maybe I'll try and get out a lot this summer. If she doesn't come along then I don't plan for it. If she comes a lot then I'll go for something that she likes more.

Hey [MENTION=67615]Dirtco[/MENTION], can you provide some insite about how your wife likes your trailer and how your setup performs with the gears, supercharger and pulling on the mountain passes?

 

[csp]

How many emissions legal engine swaps like this have you done?

 

[Dirtco]

Hey [MENTION=67615]Dirtco[/MENTION], can you provide some insite about how your wife likes your trailer and how your setup performs with the gears, supercharger and pulling on the mountain passes?

That sounds like a novel in the making, but I'll try to make it short...

When I first started building my trailer I was living in a condo and didn't have my daughter yet. I was also driving the Turbo 4Runner. I just wanted a basic trailer to keep my camping gear in, and a tent up off the ground to sleep in. I planned on using it on easy/moderate trails with very minimal pavement miles. I had most of the parts in storage so I figured why not.

Fast forward to now. The trailer became a lot more of a project than I ever, ever, imagined. It's pretty much a legit expedition trailer, and I have countless hours invested in it. Life has changed too, I now have a two year old daughter and the family dog.

I love the trailer, but it's not exactly family friendly. The roof top tent is the width of a queen size bed and a little longer; once you put two adults, one child and a dog in the tent (not to mention getting the dog in the tent) it gets a little cramped (but they do make larger tents BTW). Needless to say (and to put it nicely), lately my wife likes the idea of camping, but not so much the process of it. Now that we have a fire pit in the yard I really don't see her camping very much anymore.

My trailer is probably 1/2 the weight of the trailer your looking at. I have 35" tires with 5:29 gears and the supercharger (URD kit with pulley). On back highways it does really great and only slows down for the passes. On the Interstate it's ok. If it's flat and not windy I can cruise at 75mph, but if I hit a steep pass, or a strong headwind I can't keep up with traffic. For example: Vail Pass; From Vail to the summit, east bound (one of the steepest sections on I-70) I can only do 40-45mph and I'm watching my gauges more than the road.

The camper your looking at seems like the perfect candidate for what you plan to do with it, and it should be comfortable for your family. But, I wouldn't want to tow it behind my 4Runner in the mountains. You also don't need a 4Runner on 35's to visit a National Park. So you might be better off looking for a designated tow vehicle (or small motorhome for the price of that trailer), and keeping the 4Runner as the off-road and tent camping vehicle.

 

[TOY2G]

I recently was shopping for a light camper myself. We looked at some nice high wall popups and the a frame. But you might want to take a look at two that I found pretty interesting.

#1 Livin lite. They make all alumni and composite camp trailer. Lighter than anything on the market and never rust or rot. They have everything froma 4person tiny expo trailer to a 28 foot monster. All of them weigh half as much as most RCs.

#2 the R Pod campers are super nice. They are very light and have more room than the A Frame.

Good luck. BTW. A supercharger with an undersize pulley and some exhaust would net you nearly the same power as the v8 with less pain.

 

[rrueizhig]

It's payed off and is a second vehicle for me so the downtime for an engine swap doesn't really matter.

 

[lhsoulrebel]

Check these guys out:
Moby1 XC ? Moby1 Expedition Trailers LLC

Lighter weight, not as bulky. The wife and daughter can sleep inside, you can sleep in the rtt on top. Ive been looking at them... Really well made, just have to wait for the little one to get a bit older (only 11mo). You won't need the v8 for it either, just get a super charger, you'll have plenty of power. Cheaper, way easier, and quicker install.

 

[TOY2G]

Livin Lite 6.0 QuickSilver Sleeps 4, has table and weighs 400lbs....and for about $6k new...pretty good option

I would trade my expo trailer for this one pretty darn quick...

 

[cdrewferd]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback guys.

That sounds like a novel in the making, but I'll try to make it short...

When I first started building my trailer I was living in a condo and didn't have my daughter yet. I was also driving the Turbo 4Runner. I just wanted a basic trailer to keep my camping gear in, and a tent up off the ground to sleep in. I planned on using it on easy/moderate trails with very minimal pavement miles. I had most of the parts in storage so I figured why not.

Fast forward to now. The trailer became a lot more of a project than I ever, ever, imagined. It's pretty much a legit expedition trailer, and I have countless hours invested in it. Life has changed too, I now have a two year old daughter and the family dog.

I love the trailer, but it's not exactly family friendly. The roof top tent is the width of a queen size bed and a little longer; once you put two adults, one child and a dog in the tent (not to mention getting the dog in the tent) it gets a little cramped (but they do make larger tents BTW). Needless to say (and to put it nicely), lately my wife likes the idea of camping, but not so much the process of it. Now that we have a fire pit in the yard I really don't see her camping very much anymore.

My trailer is probably 1/2 the weight of the trailer your looking at. I have 35" tires with 5:29 gears and the supercharger (URD kit with pulley). On back highways it does really great and only slows down for the passes. On the Interstate it's ok. If it's flat and not windy I can cruise at 75mph, but if I hit a steep pass, or a strong headwind I can't keep up with traffic. For example: Vail Pass; From Vail to the summit, east bound (one of the steepest sections on I-70) I can only do 40-45mph and I'm watching my gauges more than the road.

The camper your looking at seems like the perfect candidate for what you plan to do with it, and it should be comfortable for your family. But, I wouldn't want to tow it behind my 4Runner in the mountains. You also don't need a 4Runner on 35's to visit a National Park. So you might be better off looking for a designated tow vehicle (or small motorhome for the price of that trailer), and keeping the 4Runner as the off-road and tent camping vehicle.

I agree that the a-frame looks pretty good. I also could do a dedicated tow vehicle but would really like to stay away from that. Having the 4Runner tow it would make it a lot easier to do some exploring while we're out. It sure would suck to go all the way out east and not be able to explore their 4x4 trails.

Thanks for the info on your trailer, and the towing side of things. You say that you don't see your wife camping much anymore, but do you think you'll still take your daughter once she's older?

I recently was shopping for a light camper myself. We looked at some nice high wall popups and the a frame. But you might want to take a look at two that I found pretty interesting.

#1 Livin lite. They make all alumni and composite camp trailer. Lighter than anything on the market and never rust or rot. They have everything froma 4person tiny expo trailer to a 28 foot monster. All of them weigh half as much as most RCs.

#2 the R Pod campers are super nice. They are very light and have more room than the A Frame.

Good luck. BTW. A supercharger with an undersize pulley and some exhaust would net you nearly the same power as the v8 with less pain.

Those Livin Lite look good, but I see a few issues. They are full height, so they will be more of a wind break going down the road than a lower profile. Also the price. The model 11FK with off road and tip out is $23k, almost $10k more than the a-frame. The weight does look very good though.

The R Pods are cool, but man do they start heavy. Most of them are over 2300lbs to start.

Biggest problem I see with a supercharger is the cost. You have $2000 to get one unless you can get a killer deal on a used one. Then you need the $1000 URD 7th injector kit, then colder spark plugs, new fuel pump, and run premium. So probably over $3000, probably closer to $3500 when it's all setup correctly. Granted, I could do it over time.

Check these guys out:
Moby1 XC ? Moby1 Expedition Trailers LLC

Lighter weight, not as bulky. The wife and daughter can sleep inside, you can sleep in the rtt on top. Ive been looking at them... Really well made, just have to wait for the little one to get a bit older (only 11mo). You won't need the v8 for it either, just get a super charger, you'll have plenty of power. Cheaper, way easier, and quicker install.

I've seen the Moby1's and others like it. I would need to talk to the wife, but having them inside and me outside wouldn't be horrible. I could also remove the RTT when it's just me and the daughter. Hmm, maybe a viable option.

Livin Lite 6.0 QuickSilver Sleeps 4, has table and weighs 400lbs....and for about $6k new...pretty good option

I would trade my expo trailer for this one pretty darn quick...

I've seen these all over the place online. They look cool. My problem is the tent portion of it. The whole reason my wife doesn't want to do a ground tent is because it's a tent. I asked her about these and she said it's just a tent, only farther of the ground. She said the same thing about the RTT.

Thanks again for all the feedback guys. Looks like maybe I need to talk to her about a tear drop style with an RTT on top for me when we're all together. I also need to decide about the supercharger vs V8. Dropping miles on my current motor would be nice, but then I could always swap in a low mileage V6 and that would be a weekend thing and not a 1-2 month thing.

 

[Dirtco]

Thanks for the info on your trailer, and the towing side of things. You say that you don't see your wife camping much anymore, but do you think you'll still take your daughter once she's older?

Thanks again for all the feedback guys. Looks like maybe I need to talk to her about a tear drop style with an RTT on top for me when we're all together.

Not a problem! Yes, I plan to take my daughter out a bunch when she gets older. I plan on setting the trailer up in the back yard this summer to get her excited about the the tent and camping, while still having the the comforts of home close by.

The next trailer I build will be an off road tear drop based around a real twin or full size mattress, I plan on starting the project in the next year or two. Like you mentioned, I will have a RTT that will be installed when the whole family is camping together. If it's just me the RTT will stay at home to save some weight and aerodynamics. The only problem with the tear drop camper vs the pop up style camper is there isn't much of a enclosed area to eat and gather as a family if the weather gets crappy. With a pop up everyone can eat at the table or play card games if it's pouring rain, with a tear drop and RTT you laying in bed. Just something to think about.