Towing questions...

[Centmo]

Hi, I am the happy owner of a 1998 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD Manual. I have already previously installed a 4-wire trailer light controller, and used it with a small trailer to transport a dirtbike.

The time has come that I am shopping for a travel trailer. I am looking to buy an 80's 17' bigfoot trailer (single axle) with a dry weight of 1875lbs, so I will guess around ~2600lbs loaded up. My 4Runner is rated for 5000lbs towing capacity and I have installed a 5000lb hidden-hitch with 500lb rated tounge weight, so I don't think weight will be a problem.

Now for my questions...

1) The trailer, I am pretty sure, will have electric brakes, so I will need to install a brake controller in my 4runner. What brake controller do you recommend and why?

2) Is there any advice out there on how best to install it in a 3rd-gen 4unner?

3) Will I need some kind of wiring harness to route my existing 4-wire lighting plug into a 7-prong plug for the trailer?

4) Will my alternator need upgrading? I read that this puts extra load on the alt, as it charges a battery on the trailer to power its brakes (??)

4) I am planning on replacing my rear diff and tranny fluids (front diff and transfer case can wait....will only be under strain in 4WD am I right?) before taking the trailer on a trip. I have been using regular (non-synthetic) gear oil 80W90 and 75W90 if I remember right....should I be switching to synthetic? Will this help the tranny under the extra load and heat?

Thank you all for your help!

Cheers,
Ken.

 

[Centmo]

hmmmm...

All these 4runner enthusiasts, and no comments??

Well, I've decided on the Tekonsha Prodigy proportional brake controller, but still don't know about the install. Has anyone installed one of these in a 3rd gen 4runner?

Thanks,
Ken.

 

[Ron Helmuth]

get some expert towing advice

centmo- I honestly do not feel the 3rd gen 4Runner is a wise vehicle to pull the load you are suggesting.

Can it do occasional hauling? yes, regular towing of this length and weight?-no.

I love our rides as much as my wallet allows-but I feel your idea of a 17' trailer is more than this vehicle can safely tow and more importantly stop.

For one thing I believe most people would agree an automatic is almost a requirement for towing with our 3rd gens. Never have understood it, but autos are just better for towing.

There are more issues than just the weight and tongue weight. Additionally, you will soon load that trailer up with water/gear/supplies/consumables.

You would want additional cooling capacity almost certainly. I believe I have been reading about issues with the transmission coolers on automatics needing upgrading and they are integral with the radiator not a separate "bolt on"-again this is for automatics. Manuals don't have this extra cooling capacity, and if anyone will ever need it, it would be you.

IF you have not already done rear springs you most certainly would be to support that load out back.

I am not a towing expert and will not pretend to be. I encourage you to speak with people who pull this kind of length and weight extensively.Travel trailer organizations like Big Sam or even Uhaul will direct you to others who are like yourself. You won't see a lot of Runners out there, I hate to say it but the domestics rule the towing turf.

I do believe your idea of a brake controller is excellent, but is not enough.

Speaking of brakes I believe folks on this forum or Yota Tech would try to lead you to the Tundra brake upgrade.
I do believe you would need all the braking you could get with 17' behind you.

Not trying to be a jerk, sir.

I use my real name on this forum and Yota Tech because I would not say this to you if I did not feel it was correct. I drive a manny tranny myself and love it. I would not tow with it on a routine basis. An occasional trip to pull some gravel or drywall that is fine.

My folks until recently drove our highways and byways full time. I have picked up a bit of stuff from my father, they have pulled everything you can hitch up. Vehicle stability is everything in an emergency braking situation.

The width and height of our vehicles relative to the total length you would be hauling figures into my understanding of how vehicles react at highway speeds. You are not a low riding 01 or 02.

I hope to get others here to give you some feedback relative to this.

I certainly hope I am wrong but please do not risk it to prove so.

Please move up to a Tundra if you really want to haul that kind of load regularly.
They are practically giving the new ones away out here.... dang it is tempting too....
:bash:

 

[Centmo]

Ron - Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time to give some advice. I considered everything you said very seriously, did some research, and will bring up these points:

1) I will only be towing this trailer for a max of 5 camping trips per year, not 'regular' towing.

2) With regard to which is better for towing, auto or manual, opinions out there seem pretty mixed. There doesn't seem to be a clear winner. Here's one such thread... http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tacoma/79881-towing-manual-vs-automatic/

3) From my reading online, it appears that automatic transmissions are more susceptable to overheating, and may require additional cooling.

4) My trailer weighs 1875lbs dry (the lightest 17' trailer you will find). Trailer fully-loaded weight will be ~2400lbs (about 10% of which will be tongue weight), which is less than half the rated towing capacity of my 4runner (5000lbs). If this is an unsafe load, I would have expected Toyota to have lowered their rated towing capacity.

5) Assuming a 10% tongue weight, of say 240 lbs (I can set with weight distribution hitch)...are you sure I would need suspension upgrades in the back?

6) Comparing tow load vs vehicle weight: Load: 2400lbs. Vehicle: 4070lbs (curb weight) + ~600lbs (passengers + cargo) = 4670lbs. The load is about half the weight of the tow vehicle, which seems pretty safe compared to most of the rigs out there.

7) With regard to stopping, the trailer electric brakes will be calibrated with the proportional brake controller to stop the weight of the trailer, no more and no less. If this is setup properly, I don't see how this will strain my 4runner brakes.

The one thing I will give you, however, is the relatively short wheel-base of the 4runner. I could see how this might be less stable at highway speeds.

Not trying to argue with you on these points, I just want to open the dialogue so we can get down to the facts of the matter.

Thanks again for your message!

Ken.

 

[Ron Helmuth]

five times a year and how far?

Thanks for considering my issues and I re-read what I had written and it seems a little alarmist, but I am not retracting anything I said.

Five times a year- yes, you will probably be just fine. However- I still feel that total length is not wise. Going how far away? Travelling at highway speeds?

17' would be longer than the Runner itself, yes?It is the length that worries me as much or more than the weight.

I can't believe no one else has jumped in. I think that sort of demonstrates people do not tow a lot with their Runners-it happens yes recommended no.

Please are you over on Yota Tech-bring this on over there. It is a little more techie than here no offense to anyone intended.

5) Am I sure you will need suspension upgrades? No- I can't be certain. Have you already have the spring recall done? Most folks already have sagging rears, with the addition of tongue weight I do think it is highly likely your rear will be sagging badly.


I accept your points, I am not here to dispute them. You do seem to have done your research. I agree with the braking controller being an excellent idea-have seen those in use and they work fine.

The short wheelbase of the Runner and the narrow track in conjunction with the height it sits at is simply not an ideal tow vehicle. You can probably tow just fine. My point is that safer alternatives exist and would excel.

 

[BigIron]

I'm gonna be the devil on the other shoulder and tell you that it can be done just fine as I have done it repeatedly.

I have towed the max tow weight with a 4runner. It was one of the 6x12 utility trailers from U-haul, dual axle from Raleigh, NC to Pensacola, FL...that is ~800 miles. I serviced the transmission afterwards and had no problems. I got decent gas mileage cruising mostly right above the posted speed limit. The brakes on that trailer are the hydraulicly proportioned ones, so basically my truck was stopping only itself and none of the trailer weight.

About nine months later I did it again from Florida to Texas and again, no issues. Keep in mind that this was relatively flat terrain and not mountainous.

An auto is probably easier to tow with, but think about how a clutch works and if you drive smart, the worst thing you will do is wear out your clutch slightly faster than you would if not towing. A manual transmission generates heat for different reasons than an auto (auto's slip, manuals are intermeshed gears) therefore, you will not be generating any more (negligible if any)transmission heat towing.

As far as upgrading the suspension...it will be fine the way it is, imagine a 240lb guy standing on the ball, it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Main thing is, pack the trailer well, be ready for crosswinds (you'll feel those with the wheelbase/height/sail behind you) and be smart. 4runner tows suprisingly well and you will be fine.

 

[legokcen]

I tow with my 4Runner as well. I tow a prepped race car. Though it's pretty light (2250 with me in it) the car and trailer are much more than what you have. The trailer is a small trailer, about 1100 lbs. I've towed it on 4-5 hour trips and it does well. I do have to be pretty careful with braking as I've heard a lot of horror stories, but I make sure to always be cautious and give myself extra space. The 4runner is great!