Toyota 4 Runner stalls at Stop sign/light
- Thread starter hadia
- Start date
just had alternator replaced today, hoping that would cure it BUT NOOOOIf you look back at my posts, I have basically done everything including the list posted by 77'911. Fuel pressure was at the max end of the spec. (could that be bad!?). To me it says that the fuel filter and pump are doing ok that is why I haven't replace either one yet and also the filter location is un-accessible unless I buy special tools or remove the center frame supporting bar. I did not do a vacuum test but I did a smoke test. The only smoke leaks were a little from under the cap of the EGR Vacuum Modulator and a little from around the Mass Airflow Sensor and no one has commented if this is something to worry about. Timing looked good per spec. The engine was rebuilt in Oct 2007 by the dealer. Considering the blue book price for this truck, I am hesitating to spend any more money (DIY or Shop) unless the result is guaranteed.
Bad_Vision
Moderator
dude if your leaking at the MAF then seal it back up. if the EGR is leaking then replace the EGR.
if you dont spend money on it it will never get fixed.
if you dont spend money on it it will never get fixed.
Did you do a rest pressure test for the fuel pressure regulator? The fact that it's at the max end of the spec(if that's all the time) might indicate there is an issue. I agree with the other poster, if the egr is leaking, that can also cause or contribute towards your issue.
regards
regards
I was able to change my FF. It wasnt easy. But after I got the gas out of my eye, we made it happen.
Here's the deal with mine. Every time I come to a stop it stumbles. Sometimes it dies, sometimes not. When decellerating, around 15 mph the RPM's hit 0, at about 7 MPH it starts to stumble. That's when I'm most likely to stall. If I do make it to a complete stop, the RPMs jump back up to 6-800. All is good then. Till the next stop. I have noticed it stalls more frequently when the fuel level is under half. I am more likely to survive the stumble with a full tank.
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One of the very first things I did was removing the Throttle body and cleaning it. Though the Throttle Position Sensor is attached to the body, I did not mess with it but not sure if the cleaning spray has affected the sensor electronics!
Here is what I measure when I ohm the sensor lines per Toyota Repair manual:
Clearance Between Terminals Toyota Spec What I measure
0.0 in. VTA – E2 0.2 – 0.8k Ohm 0.79 Ohm
0.0197 in. IDL – E2 <2.3 K Ohm 151 Ohm
0.0303 in. IDL – E2 Infinity 86 Ohm ???????
Fully Open VTA – E2 3.3 – 10 k Ohm 4.3 K Ohm
__ Vcc – E2 4 – 9 K Ohm 5.3 K Ohm
On the last clearance gauge, no valve position is indicated. None the less, it measures 5.3 k Ohm both when valve is fully open or fully closed. The only problem I see is at 0.0303 in. clearance. I tried to adjust sensor position but I can not get the infinity between IDL – E2 at 0.0303 in. gauge. This part is about $90 to $100. Is anyone technically knowledgeable on this subject to tell if this measurement failure is actually due to the sensor? Thanks.
Here is what I measure when I ohm the sensor lines per Toyota Repair manual:
Clearance Between Terminals Toyota Spec What I measure
0.0 in. VTA – E2 0.2 – 0.8k Ohm 0.79 Ohm
0.0197 in. IDL – E2 <2.3 K Ohm 151 Ohm
0.0303 in. IDL – E2 Infinity 86 Ohm ???????
Fully Open VTA – E2 3.3 – 10 k Ohm 4.3 K Ohm
__ Vcc – E2 4 – 9 K Ohm 5.3 K Ohm
On the last clearance gauge, no valve position is indicated. None the less, it measures 5.3 k Ohm both when valve is fully open or fully closed. The only problem I see is at 0.0303 in. clearance. I tried to adjust sensor position but I can not get the infinity between IDL – E2 at 0.0303 in. gauge. This part is about $90 to $100. Is anyone technically knowledgeable on this subject to tell if this measurement failure is actually due to the sensor? Thanks.
Out of hibernation and back on the road again!
As you all recall, my truck would always stall while idling at stop signs and stop lights.
Running out of options, I played around with Throttle control sensor to see if it would effect idle performance and hopefully stop the stall problem. This action recorded two engine faults.
A) Throttle Control Sensor Fault,
B) Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Fault.
Set back Throttle sensor to original state and the error for this sensor went away but from here on, the Coolant temp sensor fault persistently remained. I replaced the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) and Halleluiah! I have driven it for 100 miles since and no stall and it passed California’s strict smog test beautifully. After spending $1300 replacing and or cleaning many parts, a $13 sensor fixed the problem. For 8 months that I was dealing with stall problem, the truck neither generated an engine fault nor the temperature gauge indicated anything other than the normal driving temp until I messed with Throttle control sensor. How and Why!? Well, at this point I don’t care.
Thank you all for all the advice and recommendations through out this ordeal.
As you all recall, my truck would always stall while idling at stop signs and stop lights.
Running out of options, I played around with Throttle control sensor to see if it would effect idle performance and hopefully stop the stall problem. This action recorded two engine faults.
A) Throttle Control Sensor Fault,
B) Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor Fault.
Set back Throttle sensor to original state and the error for this sensor went away but from here on, the Coolant temp sensor fault persistently remained. I replaced the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (ECT) and Halleluiah! I have driven it for 100 miles since and no stall and it passed California’s strict smog test beautifully. After spending $1300 replacing and or cleaning many parts, a $13 sensor fixed the problem. For 8 months that I was dealing with stall problem, the truck neither generated an engine fault nor the temperature gauge indicated anything other than the normal driving temp until I messed with Throttle control sensor. How and Why!? Well, at this point I don’t care.
Thank you all for all the advice and recommendations through out this ordeal.
seems like pretty much the same problem
Hello to everybody,
it seems like, that I may have pretty much the same problem. I was already helpless and yesterday was the forum down, so I couldn't read this thread here. So I prepared already a post for starting my own thread for the specific prob. I'll copy past it here, just to have it complete if somebody has that much time, for google and there are a few more questions in the text...
(sry for not reworking my prepared text, as I'm right now already damn tired from my day - its already next day here in Down Under
...
but first, I miss one link with hadia's problem. I have that problem only, when the engine is warm. and it stalls only when engine is more hot after had it stopped for a few minutes.
so my question is now, does it really makes sense, that the throttle position sensor is influenced by the temperature?? I don't have much ideas of how that item works, thats why this question.
I probably will get this part anyway, because, and here it comes...my car gave earlier already a check indicator with the message: problem with TPS. but at this time, I hadn't much problems...
here comes the full story plus videos:
After introducing me and my car here, I need your serious help. I suggest to read my introduction post, at least the car history to maybe link problems and for better understanding of the timeline...
What is my serious problem right now?
My engine stalls/ shuts off by itself in idle. This only happens when the engine is warmed up (coolant temperature indicator reaches normal middle position) That it stalls, happens so far only after I stop the engine for a few minutes (for example at petrol station). Why it happens? Because the idle is to damn low! It’s struggling rough like: 800 > 500> 200 > 500 > 200 > 800 > 200 > 0!
my idle was ok in the past - and it still is, as long as the engine/coolant temp. gauge does not reach the normal middle position. I conscious recognize the struggling since my old radiator blew up. After that the stalling happens first. Anyway, I prepared a few videos, maybe it helps
DSCN1654 - YouTube
After 20 minutes, 20km daily drive. Idle struggles a little, but I think, not to bad in this moment. At one intersection before, it was already struggling around 500rpms…
Actually, I was never to much concerned about the rough movement of the engine block (see at around 0:40) before. To understand this, with yesterday I got my first conscious comparison. After changing my spark plugs and starting the engine then (cold), it was damn smooth. Four hours before, when I arrived, I let the engine running in idle to flush my oil (prepare for oil change) and my mate was like „what is your engine doing? Why so rough? Shit?!“ but ya, I have not much experience with old cars, so for me it was always looking normal, or better said, normal for an old car.
DSCN1655 - YouTube
After shutting down the engine and let it stay for around five minutes. At around 0:30 to 0:40 and around 1:00 it’s best to see, how rough/shaky the engines runs. Totally different from smooth cold start. Sry for the bad sound quality, and unfortunately the camera grabs the knocking even more detailed than all other sounds (rough running, as you would here in live)...
DSCN1657 - YouTube
Just one more video. Here the problem already with starting.
I definitely link this problem to the temperature, because the idle struggle most worse when the engine was shut off for a while - that means with it the cooling system > whole engine heats up under the hood, as because there is no more cooling. the indicator never shows unnormal temperature of the coolant. So it’s not over heating. All other driving is normal. Engine runs and I can not complain about the performance in any way as long as I push the pedal... . Seems like, there is one part/item, that doesn’t like warmer temperature and is linked to the idle set?
When having a look in the full 3VZE repair manual I just saw “cold start injector time switch” and “cold start injector” ...seems like, as long as the engine is cool, these parts doing whatever they do in detail in their correct proper way, but as soon as its becomes warm enough for the engine and these items are not any longer involved in the engine running process the part which takes the task from one of these items, has a problem... any specific suggestions for that specific problem? (when using google, I found a few other helpless owners with recognizing the same symptoms on their V6s – but I couldn’t find a specific solution. All what I see and understand so far, let me think, there is just one ****ing thing that goes wrong and it is kind of a typical 4Runner sickness...damn it?!
I’m happy and thankful for all your time and advices.
Hello to everybody,
it seems like, that I may have pretty much the same problem. I was already helpless and yesterday was the forum down, so I couldn't read this thread here. So I prepared already a post for starting my own thread for the specific prob. I'll copy past it here, just to have it complete if somebody has that much time, for google and there are a few more questions in the text...
(sry for not reworking my prepared text, as I'm right now already damn tired from my day - its already next day here in Down Under
...but first, I miss one link with hadia's problem. I have that problem only, when the engine is warm. and it stalls only when engine is more hot after had it stopped for a few minutes.
so my question is now, does it really makes sense, that the throttle position sensor is influenced by the temperature?? I don't have much ideas of how that item works, thats why this question.
I probably will get this part anyway, because, and here it comes...my car gave earlier already a check indicator with the message: problem with TPS. but at this time, I hadn't much problems...
here comes the full story plus videos:
After introducing me and my car here, I need your serious help. I suggest to read my introduction post, at least the car history to maybe link problems and for better understanding of the timeline...
What is my serious problem right now?
My engine stalls/ shuts off by itself in idle. This only happens when the engine is warmed up (coolant temperature indicator reaches normal middle position) That it stalls, happens so far only after I stop the engine for a few minutes (for example at petrol station). Why it happens? Because the idle is to damn low! It’s struggling rough like: 800 > 500> 200 > 500 > 200 > 800 > 200 > 0!
my idle was ok in the past - and it still is, as long as the engine/coolant temp. gauge does not reach the normal middle position. I conscious recognize the struggling since my old radiator blew up. After that the stalling happens first. Anyway, I prepared a few videos, maybe it helps
DSCN1654 - YouTube
After 20 minutes, 20km daily drive. Idle struggles a little, but I think, not to bad in this moment. At one intersection before, it was already struggling around 500rpms…
Actually, I was never to much concerned about the rough movement of the engine block (see at around 0:40) before. To understand this, with yesterday I got my first conscious comparison. After changing my spark plugs and starting the engine then (cold), it was damn smooth. Four hours before, when I arrived, I let the engine running in idle to flush my oil (prepare for oil change) and my mate was like „what is your engine doing? Why so rough? Shit?!“ but ya, I have not much experience with old cars, so for me it was always looking normal, or better said, normal for an old car.
DSCN1655 - YouTube
After shutting down the engine and let it stay for around five minutes. At around 0:30 to 0:40 and around 1:00 it’s best to see, how rough/shaky the engines runs. Totally different from smooth cold start. Sry for the bad sound quality, and unfortunately the camera grabs the knocking even more detailed than all other sounds (rough running, as you would here in live)...
DSCN1657 - YouTube
Just one more video. Here the problem already with starting.
I definitely link this problem to the temperature, because the idle struggle most worse when the engine was shut off for a while - that means with it the cooling system > whole engine heats up under the hood, as because there is no more cooling. the indicator never shows unnormal temperature of the coolant. So it’s not over heating. All other driving is normal. Engine runs and I can not complain about the performance in any way as long as I push the pedal... . Seems like, there is one part/item, that doesn’t like warmer temperature and is linked to the idle set?
When having a look in the full 3VZE repair manual I just saw “cold start injector time switch” and “cold start injector” ...seems like, as long as the engine is cool, these parts doing whatever they do in detail in their correct proper way, but as soon as its becomes warm enough for the engine and these items are not any longer involved in the engine running process the part which takes the task from one of these items, has a problem... any specific suggestions for that specific problem? (when using google, I found a few other helpless owners with recognizing the same symptoms on their V6s – but I couldn’t find a specific solution. All what I see and understand so far, let me think, there is just one ****ing thing that goes wrong and it is kind of a typical 4Runner sickness...damn it?!
I’m happy and thankful for all your time and advices.
KidVermicious
New member
Lots of info there, Thorax, can you condense it? I have a hard time drinking from a firehose... 
condensed
Ok, let me see, what we have.
My V6 struggles with it's idle. I only recognize this, when the engine is warmed up. when it's getting hotter under the hood, the engine even stalls in idle!
as seen in the posts before, kind of a not so rarely problem with that engine. but it turns out, that already a few owner did a lot to their engines to solve this specific problem - cleaning a lot (hoses, pipes, tanks, etc.) + even replacing parts etc. and at the end, nothing helped. it seems its' all about the throttle position sensor. is my interpretation right?
I tend to order in the next days a new TPS. but before I wanna do this, I wanna ask for some mental support. as there are so much parts who can cause the idle process, I get it, that it is still possible that another part is causing my problems (even when I not really believe this, coz this problem is so specific, it seems like just one damn part - here comes the TPS ?!? ... + I had already that my bordcomputer gave me errorcode for the TPS...
...anyway, so far I don't get it, why the TPS is that problem. where is in that part the link to the temperature? does it makes sense? cold start = smooth running with typical higher idle (~1100rpm). when becoming warm, it runs more rough (see videos^) most rough moments, when the engine struggles in the idle... (<500rpm)
Ok, let me see, what we have.
My V6 struggles with it's idle. I only recognize this, when the engine is warmed up. when it's getting hotter under the hood, the engine even stalls in idle!
as seen in the posts before, kind of a not so rarely problem with that engine. but it turns out, that already a few owner did a lot to their engines to solve this specific problem - cleaning a lot (hoses, pipes, tanks, etc.) + even replacing parts etc. and at the end, nothing helped. it seems its' all about the throttle position sensor. is my interpretation right?
I tend to order in the next days a new TPS. but before I wanna do this, I wanna ask for some mental support. as there are so much parts who can cause the idle process, I get it, that it is still possible that another part is causing my problems (even when I not really believe this, coz this problem is so specific, it seems like just one damn part - here comes the TPS ?!? ... + I had already that my bordcomputer gave me errorcode for the TPS...
...anyway, so far I don't get it, why the TPS is that problem. where is in that part the link to the temperature? does it makes sense? cold start = smooth running with typical higher idle (~1100rpm). when becoming warm, it runs more rough (see videos^) most rough moments, when the engine struggles in the idle... (<500rpm)
KidVermicious
New member
Having a little trouble with your accent, but I don't see the link to the TPS either, if that's what you're asking. But electronics can do funny things, and it's really easy to overthink a problem especially if you aren't familiar with all the ins and outs of how your engine works.
You say the ECU is throwing a TPS code? Start there. Pull your TPS and test it (link here:Toyota 22RE Throttle Position Sensor - that's for the 22RE, so you'll need to check your Factory Service Manual for numbers specific to the 3VZE, but the process should be the same). If it tests ok, check your harness connections at the throttle body and ECU. If you're still not finding trouble, head for the next likely cause or next easiest thing to check. But by questioning whether or not it could be your TPS before you've done any troubleshooting, you're getting ahead of yourself - prove it's not your TPS, then move on.
If it really is TPS related, I'd be inclined to think the engine heat is causing a high open in the TPS or wiring to come and go. Try running your tests with everything cold, and again while it's at operating temp, see if there's a difference.
You say the ECU is throwing a TPS code? Start there. Pull your TPS and test it (link here:Toyota 22RE Throttle Position Sensor - that's for the 22RE, so you'll need to check your Factory Service Manual for numbers specific to the 3VZE, but the process should be the same). If it tests ok, check your harness connections at the throttle body and ECU. If you're still not finding trouble, head for the next likely cause or next easiest thing to check. But by questioning whether or not it could be your TPS before you've done any troubleshooting, you're getting ahead of yourself - prove it's not your TPS, then move on.
If it really is TPS related, I'd be inclined to think the engine heat is causing a high open in the TPS or wiring to come and go. Try running your tests with everything cold, and again while it's at operating temp, see if there's a difference.
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HI at all
so, the next weekend comes closer, I'm up to do some stuff around my engine. and asking for your experiences and advises.
what I'm up to:
for doing these jobs there are a few gaskets on the way. which of them I have to replace in any cases, which of them are recommended to replace, which of them I probably can reuse (in case they are in a good condition)?
following gaskets are already mentioned in FSM on the way to reach the cover gaskets:
what is the recommended cold idle speed?
why I ask this?
for checking the TPS, at the link Kid gave me it is mentioned to set the idle speed (back) to normal. my problem is now, I adjusted the idle a bit higher to avoid the stalling. so far it helped, because currently I don't drive long distances. but with TPS not working probably I can't set the idle with warm engine. it still struggles. my cold idle speed is ~1,400 rpm after 2km 1,200-1,300 rpm... does that sound good to you? or should it be a bit down?
which TPS Adjusment Specifications Table is the right one :wow:
click, scroll up a bit
this one differs from the one in the FSM?! (see Throttle Body, 3VZE, p.234 or 239) what now?
Thanks for any advices and knowledge, thanks for your time.
all the best, cheers
so, the next weekend comes closer, I'm up to do some stuff around my engine. and asking for your experiences and advises.
what I'm up to:
- solving problem with struggling idle/stalling engine --> checking/adjusting TPS
- replace rocket cover gaskets (= cylinder head cover gaskets)
- valve adjusting
for doing these jobs there are a few gaskets on the way. which of them I have to replace in any cases, which of them are recommended to replace, which of them I probably can reuse (in case they are in a good condition)?
following gaskets are already mentioned in FSM on the way to reach the cover gaskets:
- catalytic converter gasket
- air intake chamber gasket
- exhaust crossover pipe gasket
- gasket at throttle body
what is the recommended cold idle speed?
why I ask this?
for checking the TPS, at the link Kid gave me it is mentioned to set the idle speed (back) to normal. my problem is now, I adjusted the idle a bit higher to avoid the stalling. so far it helped, because currently I don't drive long distances. but with TPS not working probably I can't set the idle with warm engine. it still struggles. my cold idle speed is ~1,400 rpm after 2km 1,200-1,300 rpm... does that sound good to you? or should it be a bit down?
which TPS Adjusment Specifications Table is the right one :wow:
click, scroll up a bit
this one differs from the one in the FSM?! (see Throttle Body, 3VZE, p.234 or 239) what now?
Thanks for any advices and knowledge, thanks for your time.
all the best, cheers
No, I don't have. Why you asking me this?
And to be honest, so far I don't know how such a test would look like.
May you wonder why I directly go to the TPS? Because I had earlier already an error code for the TPS.
When doing the stuff around the throttle body, I will follow the steps mentioned on that website (see Kid's post^^)
And to be honest, so far I don't know how such a test would look like.
May you wonder why I directly go to the TPS? Because I had earlier already an error code for the TPS.
When doing the stuff around the throttle body, I will follow the steps mentioned on that website (see Kid's post^^)
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fourwd1
Moderator
Because you asked for help and checking it would be a good thing to do.
You might want to get an FSM, and has all the info you need.
