I personally don’t think it’s unreasonable at all. So you’re saying if you dropped $40,000 on a brand new vehicle and the steering wheel and front suspension vibrated to the point that you could watch the wheel shake continuously on the highway... and you left it at the dealer multiple times over 22 days to fix it... and they threw a ton of parts at it... and then they gave it back to you with the same problem... you’d be cool with that? Your just live with it? Or you’d be okay in an econobox rental? Ya. Not me.
Toyota is Repurchasing my '18 4Runner TRD ORP...
- Thread starter pumacat24
- Start date
MeefZah
New member
They're giving her a new truck... what else is reasonable? Fire the guys who assembled it? Give her free ice cream for life? Burn the dealership to the ground? Make the general manager sniff her farts? What?
And anyone who thinks having a defective vehicle is some sort of life-altering, PTSD inducing issue is a ****ing loser who's never had anything truly awful happen to them.
The dealer and Toyota offering her a new truck is reasonable. Her asking for a different model that’s less likely to have the same issue as part of the negotiation process is reasonable. Your post: unreasonable.
Bugser
New member
FWIW [MENTION=57987]pumacat24[/MENTION] I believe you have handled this very well and the dealer and Toyota want's you to be a customer for life. That makes excellent business sense. For every 1 naysayer, there are 100 raving fans. I have replaced non-defective items and ate the cost (my biggest one was $2700) to make a raving fan on numerous occasions. Chaulk it up advertising/goodwill costs. One time I balked and it cost me greatly and said I'd never do that again!
I have tried to duplicate the vibration issue on different terrains and speeds and find mine to be rock solid. Something is obviously loose or out of balance that even the engineers can't pin down. Almost sounds like a quality control issue that is elusive to a part or manufacturing process.
Whenever you get the new ride, take over a couple dozen of donuts or a few pizzas and they will appreciate you forever!
At least by his 3rd ridiculous post he was able to realize the OP was female.
[MENTION=132734]MeefZah[/MENTION] - If you read the entire post, you would quickly realize everything the OP has done has been extremely courteous given the circumstance. It's difficult to fathom you felt your comments were needed, or would add any value to this post. You kind of sound like the type who would take the exact opposite approach as the OP - bull in a China shop at the dealership, shouting obscenities and flipping desks until you got what you wanted...
pumacat24
New member
Hah... yeah, thanks! I’m not even going to respond to that other negative post. I don’t have the time or energy to be negative.
It’s funny you said that about the donuts! I had already planned to do that with Discount Tire and Dave Edwards whenever I get my new ride!
The process is a little different than what I expected when I was told on Monday that Toyota said, “Stop working on the car, we will issue a replacement.”
As it turns out, yesterday I got a call from the Regional guy who will be handling my case to call in to Toyota National and say, “x, y, z” to start the process.
Now I’m waiting on National to verify everything with Regional and then officially get the green light for a replacement.
The Regional guy said he’d try his best to expedite the process but it could take up to 30 days.
I still feel good about it, but am ready to get the green light!
Sorry about those pricey lessons you have already learned from... live and learn, right!?
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MeefZah
New member
Actually I'd just quietly fix my damn truck and not generate a thread. But my comments were directed at those others who somehow think she should get more than just a replacement truck and that this event is some life altering crisis.
JAXJeremy
New member
Not sure about the pain and suffering but there was definitely some serious inconvenience, especially when you consider the fact that it was a new vehicle, so whether there should have been something additional given as compensation is debatable..
That aside, are you saying if the OP would have just quietly fixed the damn truck that would be better for everyone??
How does that make any sense? by sharing her experience others might be able to verify they have the same problem, so she's actually doing a service for the 4R community..not sure what else needs to said..
Mutant138
Banned
Didn't realize there are so many Lemon law lawyers on T4R.
Don't take "pain and suffering" so literally. Time is in fact money. 22+ days without a 40K vehicle your making payments on is a long time. Going back and forth to the dealer to sit with people takes time. Endless phone conversation and paperwork takes time. It's all stressful to boot.
Ease up gents.
Don't take "pain and suffering" so literally. Time is in fact money. 22+ days without a 40K vehicle your making payments on is a long time. Going back and forth to the dealer to sit with people takes time. Endless phone conversation and paperwork takes time. It's all stressful to boot.
Ease up gents.
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KWSRStorm
New member
Agreed. Time is money.
I work 6 days a week so id have to use a pto day every time id have to go to the dealership. With only 2 weeks of pto, that could easily mean i dont get a vacation. So as much as its not "suffering", its still money/time i would have lost on something that shouldnt need it. Plus add in gas to and from dealership. Small things add up.
Glad toyota is taking care of it.
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spartacus
Senior Member
Always ask for what you think is fair by getting advise from a lawyer. Toyota pays lawfirms and laywers who represent them. Dealers have lawyers but if they have good ownership, managers and being part of the local community generally do what ever they can to help the customers. I am sure her issue has been elevated through the channel and a couple of resolutions have already been presented internally by Toyota corporate with three important factors a) Alleviate negative publicity ; b) Maximum customer satisfaction at minimal cost and c) Good out come favorable to toyota's image. The customer's lawyer and Toyota corporate will come to a compromise depending on the fine print of the law. If you don't have a lawyer, it will be hard if not impossible to know what you are entitled to under the law.
An attorney isn't going to be able to tell Pumacat what is or is not "fair". An attorney representing Pumacat does not have insight into Toyota's internal standard of how such matters are mediated nor does an attorney have the ability to put a value on select parameters of this specific situation at hand. Pumacat would be needlessly wasting his/her finances retaining an attorney, unless said attorney were able to determine this is a case in which Toyota would reimburse Pumacat for his/her legal fees. I highly doubt that would be the case, but hey, there are a lot of lawyers out there that need to eat. If Pumacat wants to go that route, he/she would be best contacting several attorneys for a free consultation and seeing what the options are. Pumacat will learn quickly whether or not its worth retaining an attorney as one worth their expensive degree would take on the simple case by not charging Pumacat, instead being confident they could charge Toyota for those as well.
It isn't pain and suffering. This isn't a personal injury settlement. Asking for a different model isn't for the sake of avoiding this same situation either. The idea is that Pumacat was without their personal property for reasons beyond their own doing, for an accumulated time far exceeding what may be deemed as "normal" service time to repair said issue.
Pumacat was making payments (presumably) without their own vehicle for a prolonged amount of time.
Toyota is replacing the vehicle out of necessity.
The time that Pumacat has been without their vehicle, and all these interactions taking away from their personal time, are things that Pumacat is kindly asking to be respected by potentially offering him/her a small perk that would be nothing to Toyota's bottom line.
If Toyota were to reject his/her request, Pumacat wouldn't deny Toyota's replacement nor would Pumacat consider this a failure. Hence, it isn't "douchey".
Pumacat was making payments (presumably) without their own vehicle for a prolonged amount of time.
Toyota is replacing the vehicle out of necessity.
The time that Pumacat has been without their vehicle, and all these interactions taking away from their personal time, are things that Pumacat is kindly asking to be respected by potentially offering him/her a small perk that would be nothing to Toyota's bottom line.
If Toyota were to reject his/her request, Pumacat wouldn't deny Toyota's replacement nor would Pumacat consider this a failure. Hence, it isn't "douchey".
DougR
Member
I've been following this thread with intense interest. Pumacat, I commend you for your efforts and perseverance. It benefits all of us, and hopefully, Toyota Marketing and Engineering is watching this forum and devoting resources to resolve this issue. At the very least you have their attention via your negotiation with the dealer, the regional techs and national level techs.
Toyota should recognize that your vehicle has considerable value that would help them identify what is causing the vibration because this issue is easily reproduced with your vehicle. Toyota Engineering could put your vehicle on a dynamometer, aim high speed cameras at the tires, frame, CV axles, steering and suspension to capture information about the natural frequencies of each component and the system to diagnose the root cause. Google "vibration analysis by high speed camera". See Iris M™ - RDI: Performance Motion Amplification Technology for Machinery and High speed image correlation for vibration analysis - IOPscience ...
Toyota should recognize that your vehicle has considerable value that would help them identify what is causing the vibration because this issue is easily reproduced with your vehicle. Toyota Engineering could put your vehicle on a dynamometer, aim high speed cameras at the tires, frame, CV axles, steering and suspension to capture information about the natural frequencies of each component and the system to diagnose the root cause. Google "vibration analysis by high speed camera". See Iris M™ - RDI: Performance Motion Amplification Technology for Machinery and High speed image correlation for vibration analysis - IOPscience ...
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Hans Moleman
New member
DougR
Member
Maybe that's why Toyota wants to take her truck back, to analyze it
I hope they choose to ship it to Toyota Engineering to analyze it.
Google "what happens to lemon law cars?". You will not like the answer. Buyer beware. See What Happens to Lemon Law Cars After They're Bought Back? and Can "Lemon" Cars be Resold? - MargarianLaw and more …
In this situation, Toyota is trying to avoid a lemon buy back designation. We may never know what they do with the vehicle.
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pumacat24
New member
Great observation! I will definitely check out that link later. Thanks for sharing.
This forum really is the best and why I’m sharing my experience.... to help others.
I would definitely love to know exactly what Toyota will do with my car once they get it back. I’ll keep an eye on the VIN from time to time to see if they ever sell it again.
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spartacus
Senior Member
It's an option. if you choose not to that's fine. Like anything in life A good lawyer, mechanic, contractor etc is worth the money. Point was they got knowledgeable lawyers making their policy and if you have one as well it makes for a more even playing field nevertheless an underdog.
Free consult wouldn't hurt. Lawyers are rarely the answer. A law firm vs. Toyota's team is almost never the answer.
cb1111
Member
If this were a lemon law case then a lawyer will serve you well, but here you are getting a trade assist and a lawyer may not be necessary and will cost you money.
Me? I'd see what Toyota comes up with and then, if I had any questions, I'd get a free consult with a lemon lawyer.
There is another challenge that you want to keep a good relationship with your dealership and a legal battle won't help that.
At this point, just cool your heels, stick to your guns and see what Toyota will do.
Me? I'd see what Toyota comes up with and then, if I had any questions, I'd get a free consult with a lemon lawyer.
There is another challenge that you want to keep a good relationship with your dealership and a legal battle won't help that.
At this point, just cool your heels, stick to your guns and see what Toyota will do.
