Toyota Service scam?

[BinaryMan]

This week I took my 4runner to have the oil changed and brake pads installed on the front/rear. The tech checked the brake system and advised the service advisor that I had frozen calipers which were making a weird noise.

The service adviser called me to advice of this problem and quoted me a price to replace the front calipers/rotors on new parts. He quoted 330 for each caliper installed and 340 for the rotors. First I told him no and started looking for OEM Toyota parts on-line. OEM parts were close to his quote so I decided to go ahead and let the dealer do this job.

Today I go to pick up the truck. I looked over the invoice and noticed REMAN Calipers! I was very annoyed because the service advisor did not tell me that REMAN parts would be used in my vehicle. If he had told me before, I would have said no and got my own parts.

So then I talked to the service advisor and he tells me that’s why the job is so cheap because OEM calipers are 900 a piece and not to worry about the calipers being REMAN because what they do is take your old calipers, melt down the metal, and recast a new set. Since it’s the same metal (not new) that’s why they are called REMAN!

I looked at him and said WHAT?

I got home and looked at the receipt in detail and noticed that I was billed to put the calipers on ($210) rotors ($105) and brake pads ($52)

Now, I'm not an expert but if you replace the rotors, don't you remove the caliper, and if you replace the caliper, don't you remove/replace the pads? It seems I’m getting overcharged.

Do you guys think the labor charges are accurate and is it common for a Toyota dealer to use REMAN parts without the customer’s knowledge? I plan to file a compliant with the dealership but before I do, your input would be appreciated.

 

[tranny Frank]

reman

The prices you list off are they parts and labor or just parts? if that's parts and labor you didn't get stung to bad

I wouldnt worry about the reman calipers , just as good as factory I would think.
and if your taking your rig to the dealership for repairs you can expect to get dinged a bit more, Try asking around for a reputable small repair shop, a simple brake job is well within the capability of even the shadiest of shade tree mechanics

 

[CJ3Flyr]

The prices you list off are they parts and labor or just parts? if that's parts and labor you didn't get stung to bad

I wouldnt worry about the reman calipers , just as good as factory I would think.
and if your taking your rig to the dealership for repairs you can expect to get dinged a bit more, Try asking around for a reputable small repair shop, a simple brake job is well within the capability of even the shadiest of shade tree mechanics

:iagree: 100%

You did get stung but not any more than 'normal' for a dealership.

 

[Jed]

LOL...remanufactured calipers are not melted down and recast! That's funny that the guy would even say that to you with a straight face.

Other than the cost, I also wouldn't worry about the reman calipers. They are completely reconditioned
and usually just as good as new. I agree that they should have told you ahead of time, but I'm not really sure of the dealership policy.

 

[Jed]

One other thing-- don't try to look too far into the way they broke down the labor. Typically, the labor charges are actually fixed (flat rate) for the brake job, but they just have to assign a dollar figure various parts of the job. It's really meaningless to you, but it is part of the dealership accounting process. You would have paid the same labor for that particular job no matter if the tech completed it in 30 minutes or 2 hours.

 

[MikesToy]

You got stung. Too late you already paid, signed, and picked up your vehicle. If it were me, i would not pay, sign, nor pick it up until they put Toyota parts in there. It's a Toyota dealership, not a REMAN chop shop. I would talk to the Service Manager, if he can't help then go up the chain 'til i reach the dealership owner. I'm glad the Toyota dealership i go to only uses Toyota parts except they also carry K&N air filters and CAI.

 

[toto]

The line of BS you got about the remanufactured calipers is enough to make me want to find another repair shop for the future. I hate it when dealers (sales or service) make up BS just to sound like they know what they're talking about. I'm sure they'll work fine, but I agree that this fact should have been disclosed up front. Bottom line, they've lost your trust and on that basis alone I would be reluctant to go back there.

Jed's right about the labor being fixed cost for the job, regardless of the amount of clock time it really takes for the tech to do the work. I agree with the OP in principle - if part the labor for remove & replace the rotor includes labor to R&R the caliper, then that's a scam. That said, I don't know if the number they quoted you to R&R the rotor really does include all that or not. Like Jed said, it could just be an excessive amount of detail. 3.5 hours of labor total (assuming $105 an hour from those numbers) for all four wheels really doesn't sound that bad, so it could be legit.

 

[Jed]

You got stung. Too late you already paid, signed, and picked up your vehicle. If it were me, i would not pay, sign, nor pick it up until they put Toyota parts in there. It's a Toyota dealership, not a REMAN chop shop. I would talk to the Service Manager, if he can't help then go up the chain 'til i reach the dealership owner. I'm glad the Toyota dealership i go to only uses Toyota parts except they also carry K&N air filters and CAI.

Reman calipers are almost always original Toyota parts. The reason I say "almost" is because there is a possibility that another offbrand exists. But even if you go to NAPA or Carquest and ask for remanufactured calipers for your 4Runner, you'll get the original Toyota part, complete with the correct casting numbers.

It's really not that unusual to see reman parts at a dealership, especially when we're talking about brake calipers.

 

[BinaryMan]

Thank you all for your feedback. Parts/labor are included in the cost. I definitely think the charge for replacing brake pads is bogus!

It was my first time going to this dealer. I won't be going there anymore.

I will write a letter to the dealership to address my complaint and voice my concerns for my safety. I do feel it's their responsibility to advise the customer of what type of parts they will put in your car and let the customer decide to take a risk with REMAN parts.

 

[pants]

dealer service hell, nothing specific to Toyota.

I used to have a VW Golf, same thing happened to me, the dealership quoted me near $1500 to replace all 4 wheels' brakes (+rotors). I said no and went to a local garage, they let me pick all of the parts used (including VW OEM) and did the entire job for less than $600 out the door.

why am i still going to the toyota dealer? someone smack some sense into me

 

[Jed]

dealer service hell, nothing specific to Toyota.

I used to have a VW Golf, same thing happened to me, the dealership quoted me near $1500 to replace all 4 wheels' brakes (+rotors). I said no and went to a local garage, they let me pick all of the parts used (including VW OEM) and did the entire job for less than $600 out the door.

why am i still going to the toyota dealer? someone smack some sense into me

You should realize that dealerships have much higher overhead than most independent garages. So it seems natural that they would have higher labor rates and parts prices. Of course we always have the option of going to the independent garage to save money on repair costs, but depending upon the job that needs to be done, that can end up being false economy. But for a brake job, yeah, dealerships are probably the most expensive option. Anyone who really wants to save money on a brake job should try doing it himself. It's pretty basic work and there is a lot of information out there to guide an inexperienced person to do the job right.

 

[toto]

True, but dealerships also have a lot more revenue sources. I don't believe they sell cars in order to cover losses incurred by running a service department. The service department also has free advertising from the sales side of the house; many people assume that only a dealer for the car maker can repair their car. The independents have to try a lot harder to drum up new business.

I think dealer service shops charge more per hour because they can. As I said, to many people out there the dealer's shop has no competition except for the next dealer of the same brand.

 

[charlier180]

True, but dealerships also have a lot more revenue sources. I don't believe they sell cars in order to cover losses incurred by running a service department. The service department also has free advertising from the sales side of the house; many people assume that only a dealer for the car maker can repair their car. The independents have to try a lot harder to drum up new business.

Up until the last year or so, most auto dealership's derived their revenue as follows:

- 25% New Car Sales
- 25% Used Car Sales
- 50% Parts & Service

With the decrease in sales at most dealerships the above listed percentages have probably changed somewhat.

Regardless, the Parts and Service sides of a dealership house is where the revenue comes from. Parts & Service "up sell" is the name of the game for most dealerships. That is why I like my Toyota Dealership. They may suggest additional services but they ALWAYS do JUST what I tell them to do, NOTHING MORE. When I have them do maintenance work I print out and give them the list of Toyota Maintenance Services specified by Toyota. That way they do not perform their maintenance services which can be items not on Toyota's list.

The original poster may want to consider finding another dealership to use and to also ask VERY specific questions when dealing with ANY service department or independent shop. The more specific and detailed the questions, the less likely that there will be a misunderstanding as to the work being performed or the parts being used.

 

[manhunter]

Not too much more to add beyond what has been said. If they use reman parts, they should let you know PRIOR to using them just to make sure you approve and are ok with that. That is pretty much industry standard now, to use reman parts, not just Toyota. On the brakes, I agree that you should find a local small mom and pop place to have basic stuff done. But I think most people have more peace of mind taking it to the dealer thinking that they know your vehicle better than anybody else since that is what they mostly work on, and you feel like it will be done right and with the right parts. Which is true, so the question how much are you willing to pay for that peace of mind? I only go to a Toyota dealer if it is something that is very specific to Toyota that my local mechanic does not feel comfortable with. Overall, I don't think you got stung too bad, especially if you have learned something from all this.

 

[Jed]

True, but dealerships also have a lot more revenue sources. I don't believe they sell cars in order to cover losses incurred by running a service department. The service department also has free advertising from the sales side of the house; many people assume that only a dealer for the car maker can repair their car. The independents have to try a lot harder to drum up new business.

I think dealer service shops charge more per hour because they can. As I said, to many people out there the dealer's shop has no competition except for the next dealer of the same brand.

A typical dealership makes FAR more money servicing cars than it does selling them. In most cases, it's completely lopsided in favor of service. Sales may seem like it gets all the glory, but the real money maker is the service dept. But most dealerships make their profits on high volume, not low volume and high prices. Dealerships that don't have a high volume are forced to raise prices, and then they are usually killed by their local competitors and eventually run out of business.

People think that poor car sales is what killed most of the dealerships for the last year or so in our crappy economy. But what they fail to realize is that the economy's impact on the service department played an even bigger role in shutting down the weaker dealerships. The theory was that people would tend to hold on to their old cars instead of buying new ones, so the car dealerships felt that they would make money either way. But in reality, it turned out that things go so bad that many customers turned to independent shops instead of paying dealership service prices. In the end, dealerships were forced to lower service labor rates to the point that they could not remain profitable. Remember, they do have really high overhead--- They have an extremely high level of training for their techs that is ongoing because of continual advancements in technology. Dealership techs go through training every single year. And of course the dealerships have to maintain state-of-the-art equipment throughout the shop. Even something as simple as a dealership scan tool can cost upwards of $20,000.

So if you think that dealership service departments are overpriced, remember that they do have competition in this crappy economy and they are probably priced as low as they can afford to remain profitable. They surely aren't relying on car sales to generate revenues, so their service departments must be carefully and properly managed.

 

[BinaryMan]

For some reason the dealer was cheaper than the independent shops I researched. To change the brake pads alone, the independent shop was asking 200 per axle. The dealer 104. So that’s why I went there because of the cost.

 

[KB084RUNNER]

I used to go to shops for brakes but now I do them myself because of the ridiculous labor charges. Now I use all factory parts or raybestos advanced technology only. Never a problem. Just did a complete pad reline & fluid flush on the wifes Lexus ES350 for $88. :