Toyota Trademarks FT-4X Name - FJ Cruiser Revival? UPDATE: REVEALED

[1engineer]

As a millennial, this is the problem I have with it:

"Hunter says his team found that while millennials like to go outside, there’s a difference between them and previous generations. It’s not that they’re softer, they’re just “less hardcore.”

“Their needs and appetites are less hardcore and more of what we like to call, ‘casual-core,’” Hunter said. “Now in generations past, basecamp symbolized the beginning of a journey, but today for many millennials, basecamp has become the destination.”"

Many of us on this forum are "unique" in the fact that we don't fit the standard mold. What we think is stupid or useless is apparently smart and useful to the majority of the buyers.

 

[007Tacoma]

Many of us on this forum are "unique" in the fact that we don't fit the standard mold. What we think is stupid or useless is apparently smart and useful to the majority of the buyers.

My hipster/millennial little brother would love this thing... I blame him... especially since he will never see this message. :spy:

 

[Dalko43]

With all the 'soft-roading' Renegades, Cherokee trailhawk's, and whatnot, a "off-road" focused crossover like this will be lost in the noise. There's nothing special about them in that they're a dime-a-dozen and not all that practical outside of cruising on a gravel road and carrying a few passengers.

Toyota already has a firm grasp on the crossover market with CHR, Rav-4 and Highlander. Adding a specially designed FTX-4 model to that lineup really doesn't bring much to the table IMHO.

What they do need to do is refocus their efforts on: gaining more of the full-sized truck market (Tundra sales are seriously lagging behind its domestic brethren); and developing a good successor to the 5th gen 4runner. The 4x4 market has grown tremendously in recent years (go look at the sales #'s for the various mid-sized and full-sized SUV's and pickup's).

 

[Keda69]

Wtf

I cant believe i was actually thinking about getting up early , and going into the city to see the big reveal. I was excited thinking that toyota was finally going to come out with a real fj to compete with the wrangler. What a complete F@$ing let down . good thing i didnt , i seriously would of yelled out loud what a complete piece of s^#* this thing is !

 

[Gecko]

The C-HR is FWD only. This would be a sub-compact crossover like the Honda HRV and Mazda CX3. Toyota is late to the game there.

The funny thing is Honda mentioned similar youthful demographic targets for the Element, only to find that the only ones buying it were 50+ year old ladies who were attracted by the small size, roomy interior, and great visibility.

The C-HR is Toyota's competitor to the HR-V and CX-3... I'm not sure why you think otherwise. AWD is coming to the C-HR within the next few years. It was initially omitted because the product was supposed to be a (cheap) Scion but Toyota has already said it's coming.

 

[TOY2G]

Millennials are the future and the auto market has to cater to them....WELL, toddlers are the future, but they are incredibly hard to market too. I have my own opinions about this release, but to this date, nobody from Toyota has ever asked from my opinion on a design..

 

[swampdodo]

Wow...that looks like something my wife would like...as for me, I'll stick with my 4th gen V8...

"Last of the V8 interceptors...."

 

[Bossman]

Toyota Canada press releases regarding the FT-4X Concept:

https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/abo...n-4x4-toolbox-for-the-most-intrepid-urbanites

From Desktop to Trailhead: The Toyota FT-4X Concept

 

[1engineer]

I like the thing. Would be great option for an urban person.... scratch that.... would be a much more realistic option for 95% of the people who buy 4Runners thinking or dreaming of the wild but never going there. This is what they need.

People buy a 4Runner because they think they will go hard off road... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think they will buy a trailer... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think they need the room... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think it gives them a rugged image... lots do.

 

[swanny]

Personally I like the CONCEPT of the vehicle. I think we all know that concepts never come out looking even close to their original release.

It's a rugged millenial vehicle that gets someone confidently from their city dwelling to a trailhead without the need for modifications that we've all felt or feel the need to make to our vehicles. Subaru makes the XV which this should also compete with in addition to the various Jeep vehicles which come in a variety of city/rugged varieties.

The vehicle isn't a replacement to the FJ unfortunately, but it is a vehicle to compete with what many people (at least in the PNW) are buying.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

With all the 'soft-roading' Renegades, Cherokee trailhawk's, and whatnot, a "off-road" focused crossover like this will be lost in the noise. There's nothing special about them in that they're a dime-a-dozen and not all that practical outside of cruising on a gravel road and carrying a few passengers.

Seriously?! No; this is a Hipster Overlanders wet dream!
All they need to do is have REI jump on board with the water bottle door handles, and this thing will sell enough in Colorado, Oregon and Washington for the whole country!

 

[Seattle206]

Not bad, might consider trading in my '14 4Runner if I like the projection model.

 

[jwkilgore]

I like the thing. Would be great option for an urban person.... scratch that.... would be a much more realistic option for 95% of the people who buy 4Runners thinking or dreaming of the wild but never going there. This is what they need.

People buy a 4Runner because they think they will go hard off road... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think they will buy a trailer... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think they need the room... most never do.
People buy a 4Runner because they think it gives them a rugged image... lots do.

For what it's worth, I also kinda like the general concept. I'd never buy one, but I see the appeal. I plan on keeping my 4Runner until I drive it into the ground, but we'll soon be in the market for a new second vehicle. A smallish AWD vehicle (Subaru Outback, Forester, etc.) with good gas mileage, yet still large enough for 2 adults + 2 kids + 1 large GSD on short local trips is one type we are considering. This vehicle would fit in that category. A ruggedized Rav4 might even make the cut.

The other type is a larger passenger vehicle (hybrid Highlander or Sienna) to handle all the stuff my wife and kids need to survive on family vacations. The advantage of the second type is that I would get my 4runner back from the wife and finally be able to mod it 'till my heart's content. :wof:

What I don't see is how this vehicle could ever get even close to any situation where it would need an inclinometer, much less need one so often it's worth building one into the instrument cluster.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

I just read where the 4Runner is up 25.5% for March 2017. The best ever March and 1st Q it has ever had.

That doesn't mean much to Toyota. They still need NA Toyota to beg them actually keep making Tundra, Tacoma, and Sequoia despite the factory being run overtime, orders exceeding supply, ect. Toyota's a very weird company these days.

I think you just have to look at the Jeep dynamic to see that people want this type of vehicle along with an actual off-roader. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I don't think that people looking for a cute-ute are going to spring for a 4Runner when they decide they want something more capable than a C-HR or RAV4... gaining 1000lbs and dropping fuel economy by 30% isn't a decision made lightly. But, if they can drive over to the Jeep dealer and get a Cherokee Trailhawk or Renegade Trailhawk and have more capability than the city ready Toyotas while only giving up a few MPG and little in the way of road manners, Toyota just loses a sale. This would be a Kia Soul/Subaru Crosstrek killer were it to come to market. Why Kia hasn't made an "off-road" trim of the Soul, I'll never know. Money printer.

The survival of the 4Runner hinges on fuel economy standards, IMO, not some Subaru style off-roader. If the regulations are relaxed or the ROW Prado comes more in line with the 4Runner, it will see a 6th gen.

Even if, let's say Trump abolishes all EPA regulations and turns back the clock to pre-70's emissions standards. Toyota would still release a 4Runner with the same gutless, pathetic, Prius Tuned drivetrain that plagues the Tacoma, if not a hybrid system in it. Worse still they'll throw in a Start/Stop system in it and some other crap that I'll have to fix regularly because it was a bad idea from the get go; all at shitty warranty times (I'm looking at you BSM!)

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I get that, but you know as well as I do how stupid Toyota has gotten lately. They're decision making and goals have become very shaky. Between NA Toyota and Toyota Japan it seems like they almost operate on two different worlds when it comes to product decisions. The stories I've heard from people closer to the actual decision table seem to indicate that outside of Toyota North America, Toyota doesn't get why we make the Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia. They apparently can't see that these things sell and they need NA Toyota to almost beg them to keep making them.

Toyota as a company seems to have become more and more fractured internally and out of touch with not only it's customers but it's self in many ways. The trend doesn't seem to be improving either.

For all of you haters out there, remember three things:
1. Millennials are this vehicle's market. Not the 35 and up crowd with 2.5 kids.
2. Toyota, nor any other manufacturer (except the Apple IPod but that's a different topic), builds a product without a clear demand. So, don't blame Toyota for offering this, blame yourself. Toyota customer focus groups built this vehicle. So, good or bad, this is what they wanted.
3. Toyota is in business to make money. That's it. They don't do it out of passion, they do it to make money. In case you haven't heard, the CUV market is the strongest market out there.

Now, my thoughts: This is the direction that all auto manufacturers are heading. I look at this vehicle and I see a CRV or RAV4 with a few off road oriented options. A soft roader if you will.
As it applies to the 4Runner, remember that, while we are a passionate little group, we are just a small fraction of the 4Runner customer base. They didn't just pick some of us to be in the focus groups, they picked a cross section of their typical 4Runner customers. So the future of the 4Runner is going to be decided by their customers.

In regards to this vehicle, I would rather have it than some of the other offerings out there now. I for one am glad I am not in this target demographic. So when you start badmouthing Toyota, or Jeep, or Chevy remember that you and your peers are the ones that got us here.

Hey! I unfortunately fall under the millennial category (though I suppose by how I talk sometimes you'd think I was an old codger! lol) and I think that knock-off Renegade wanna-be is a solid miss (though that dual function rear hatch is interesting.)

The issue is a lot more complicated than just using study groups. As I mentioned above, Toyota's own internal communication & interaction is ridiculously over-complicated and out of touch. Just from a technician standpoint the among of BS to actually get someone from Toyota to give any semblance of assistance without routing through 3 different departments is ridiculous. The company can't seem to make consistent decisions and when they do, they seem to be wishy washy on them (the best, most recent example being launching 2 Scion models in 2016 with a 3rd ready to release at the Auto-Show and then literally 2 months later deciding they want to shut-down all of Scion, Toyota's not usually that rash with decision making, they're very Japanese and calculated in their choices).

Toyota's lauded their Kaizen system for a long time and it works well, but from an infrastructure standpoint their company seems to have become so compartmentalized that more often than not the left pinky finger doesn't know what the left thumb is doing, let alone the right hand.

 

[1engineer]

That doesn't mean much to Toyota. They still need NA Toyota to beg them actually keep making Tundra, Tacoma, and Sequoia despite the factory being run overtime, orders exceeding supply, ect. Toyota's a very weird company these days.



I get that, but you know as well as I do how stupid Toyota has gotten lately. They're decision making and goals have become very shaky. Between NA Toyota and Toyota Japan it seems like they almost operate on two different worlds when it comes to product decisions. The stories I've heard from people closer to the actual decision table seem to indicate that outside of Toyota North America, Toyota doesn't get why we make the Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia. They apparently can't see that these things sell and they need NA Toyota to almost beg them to keep making them.

Toyota as a company seems to have become more and more fractured internally and out of touch with not only it's customers but it's self in many ways. The trend doesn't seem to be improving either.




Hey! I unfortunately fall under the millennial category (though I suppose by how I talk sometimes you'd think I was an old codger! lol) and I think that knock-off Renegade wanna-be is a solid miss (though that dual function rear hatch is interesting.)

The issue is a lot more complicated than just using study groups. As I mentioned above, Toyota's own internal communication & interaction is ridiculously over-complicated and out of touch. Just from a technician standpoint the among of BS to actually get someone from Toyota to give any semblance of assistance without routing through 3 different departments is ridiculous. The company can't seem to make consistent decisions and when they do, they seem to be wishy washy on them (the best, most recent example being launching 2 Scion models in 2016 with a 3rd ready to release at the Auto-Show and then literally 2 months later deciding they want to shut-down all of Scion, Toyota's not usually that rash with decision making, they're very Japanese and calculated in their choices).

Toyota's lauded their Kaizen system for a long time and it works well, but from an infrastructure standpoint their company seems to have become so compartmentalized that more often than not the left pinky finger doesn't know what the left thumb is doing, let alone the right hand.

Do not confuse conceptual design teams with the manufacturing and technology groups. Completely different planets.
It's also not just Toyota that has a hard time understanding other countries desires. I am constantly on the phone with Europe explaining why our product needs are different than China's needs right now. South America is on the phone with us explaining why they need something different for their market. We currently are exchanging upper management for a week at a time so one part of the world can get get insight on what's going on in other parts of the world.

An example of differences in the vehicle world, go drive a vehicle designed and manufactured in Europe and sold here. Do the same for a Japanese vehicle and then drive a Ford or Chevy destined for use in the US. They were all designed for this market but they are all incredibly different.

 

[BlackWorksInc]

Do not confuse conceptual design teams with the manufacturing and technology groups. Completely different planets.
It's also not just Toyota that has a hard time understanding other countries desires. I am constantly on the phone with Europe explaining why our product needs are different than China's needs right now. South America is on the phone with us explaining why they need something different for their market. We currently are exchanging upper management for a week at a time so one part of the world can get get insight on what's going on in other parts of the world.

An example of differences in the vehicle world, go drive a vehicle designed and manufactured in Europe and sold here. Do the same for a Japanese vehicle and then drive a Ford or Chevy destined for use in the US. They were all designed for this market but they are all incredibly different.

Fair enough, Design and Production are two different worlds for sure.

The thing is that Toyota used to be better about these things. But lately it seems they've over compartmentalized themselves as a company which has caused a very poor communication/direction internally.

Setting aside different countries needs and markets, the company itself has become very distant and isolated within itself.

 

[qs933]

The C-HR is Toyota's competitor to the HR-V and CX-3... I'm not sure why you think otherwise. AWD is coming to the C-HR within the next few years. It was initially omitted because the product was supposed to be a (cheap) Scion but Toyota has already said it's coming.

I think otherwise because it lacks AWD. It's a tall, front-wheel drive hatchback like the Kia Soul or Niro. I'm not going to debate whether "AWD coming soon" counts. Doesn't matter whether that was Toyota's intent all along or that the demise of the Scion brand turned it into an orphan that needed a home.

I'm sure consumers will cross-shop the C-HR against the HR-V or CX-3, especially if they don't care about AWD. Until they add AWD or the FT-4X turns into a production model, I'd still contend that they don't have a direct competitor in that segment.

 

[msp]

interior by the Reliant and Khan

I'll just wait for a new 70 series Land Cruiser. I'll be waiting forever. But my dignity will remain intact...sort of.

View attachment 247809

The interior is so futuristic, it inspired Starfleet design....

 

[JSparky]

Here's what's really going on, it's Toyota's response to the dreaded Defender replacement, only it'll be 20% cheaper and 200% more reliable.

 

[Moonbandit]

Something Zoolander would like!

Ha - Girlie beach car.

:sad: ?

Could be worse!