toytec lift alignment issues

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Timmy1909

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99 t4r with toytec boss lift with SPC UCA's

I have a serious camber issue... when I pull it forward in the drive way the tires look like this \ / but if I back in they are a look almost perfect. I have the SPC caster adjustment at +2 (SPC logo facing tire on both sides) and the camber adjustment on the UCA about in the center.

The truck seems to be towed in as the tires will squeal a bit when driving down the road. Now on the alignment rack everything is perfect... but drive it down the road and its horrible. I took it to another shop about 30 min away and they said that everything looked good to them on paper but could not pinpoint what was wrong.

just replaced my LCA's due to worn out bushings as I thought it would fix the alignment issue. I bought the truck with all this installed and have had camber issued since I bought it.

I have a friend that knows what he is doing (master Chevy Tech) try and try to align it to no avail. Truck is all in spec on the rack... but after we drive it... it always comes back to \ / when we put it back on the rack and re-adjust it always comes back to the same \ / unless I drive backward...


Would changing the caster help as that is the only thing we have not messed with... and the steering wheel dose NOT come back to center after a turn like it should. leeding me to believe that the caster on the LR UCA's needs to be adjusted.

Here are things I have changed since I bought it...
OEM lower control arms with stock bushings
OEM axels
all new cam adjusters

http://i68.tinypic.com/33xvg9g.jpg
 

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Something seems backwards here is a shot in the dark is it possible u installed the chamber bolts backwards or possible two wheel drive chamber adjustment bolts. I am thinking there is a difference.
 
Thank you for the reply. I checked the part #'s for the Cam centric adjusters that I bought and they are correct for the vehicle. as far as being installed backwards I am 99% positive i put them in the correct way. I installed them one at a time as they were removed.
 
Timmy1909 said:
99 t4r with toytec boss lift with SPC UCA's

I have a serious camber issue... when I pull it forward in the drive way the tires look like this \ / but if I back in they are a look almost perfect. I have the SPC caster adjustment at +2 (SPC logo facing tire on both sides) and the camber adjustment on the UCA about in the center.

The truck seems to be towed in as the tires will squeal a bit when driving down the road. Now on the alignment rack everything is perfect... but drive it down the road and its horrible. I took it to another shop about 30 min away and they said that everything looked good to them on paper but could not pinpoint what was wrong.

just replaced my LCA's due to worn out bushings as I thought it would fix the alignment issue. I bought the truck with all this installed and have had camber issued since I bought it.

I have a friend that knows what he is doing (master Chevy Tech) try and try to align it to no avail. Truck is all in spec on the rack... but after we drive it... it always comes back to \ / when we put it back on the rack and re-adjust it always comes back to the same \ / unless I drive backward...


Would changing the caster help as that is the only thing we have not messed with... and the steering wheel dose NOT come back to center after a turn like it should. leeding me to believe that the caster on the LR UCA's needs to be adjusted.

Here are things I have changed since I bought it...
OEM lower control arms with stock bushings
OEM axels
all new cam adjusters

http://i68.tinypic.com/33xvg9g.jpg
Click to expand...

Look, Camber can't change unless something moves, Caster does affect camber in turns, but not going straight, the direction is irrelevant. Since you say it does this \/, i'm thinking the camber is going POSITIVE when you back up. If your wheels became toed out this could be blamed on Camber. But it could only camber positive as much as you have caster, 2-4 degrees would be normal. You haven't said how positive it is. Conversely if your caster is negative, and the wheels toed in on reversing, the camber would go positive. But still only as much as the caster reading.

Look I've trained hundreds of techs to do alignments, most of them DON'T have a clue beyond the absolute basics. If your friend knew what he was doing, you wouldn't be asking for a solution here. And what the heck is LR UCR ? Left Rear Upper Control Arm?
 
OP are you sure the nut holding the balljoints to the UCA is torqued properly? 150ft-lb, if I remember correctly. Take a picture of your upper control arms.

IBallEngineer said:
And what the heck is LR UCR ? Left Rear Upper Control Arm?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he means Light Racing.
 
Are you positive you replaced the LCA bushings with OEM? I had the same issue when i used some cheap aftermarket bushings.. I replaced them with Whiteline and problem solved
 
thezentree said:
OP are you sure the nut holding the balljoints to the UCA is torqued properly? 150ft-lb, if I remember correctly. Take a picture of your upper control arms.



I'm guessing he means Light Racing.
Click to expand...

If that bolt was loose it would put the bolt outwards and make his camber go the other way like / \.


I had this issue but it was only with one alignment shop. I had them do it three times and everytime it came out like so \ /. I would get major outsite wear. Once I got another shop on the alignment it came out fine.
 
How can it be perfect on the rack and the second shop says it's good but the picture you posted OBVIOUSLY shows positive camber? Something is moving. The only 2 places of movement with your setup is at the UCA adjustment or the LCA cam adjusters. Assuming they are even adjusting anything, which judging what they are telling you, could also be the case. Dude I'll bet you can get it closer by eyeballing it and using the UPC UCA adjustment.
 
The picture posted is the day I bought it... I had a bad bushing in the LCA so I replaced them NON OEM new control arms. I have tried looking for whiteline bushings, where are you all getting them from? Whitelines US website says that they are out of stock of the W53377A kit. I have also ordered new OEM Lower Ball joints as I dont know what is in there (cheap insurance) After I replace the LCA bushings and the ball Lower ball joints I am taking it to a 4x4 specialty shop to have them take a look at it.


I have had it a 2 different shops and they both say that everything is "in the green" I will get the printout this week. A few nights ago we spent 2 hours at the shop trying to dial it in but when we went for a test drive, it would come back like \ /

The upper control arms are SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=25460

I have tightened and marked the camber bolt on the UCA to see if they have moved and they have stayed put.
 
Timmy1909 said:
The picture posted is the day I bought it... I had a bad bushing in the LCA so I replaced them NON OEM new control arms. I have tried looking for whiteline bushings, where are you all getting them from? Whitelines US website says that they are out of stock of the W53377A kit. I have also ordered new OEM Lower Ball joints as I dont know what is in there (cheap insurance) After I replace the LCA bushings and the ball Lower ball joints I am taking it to a 4x4 specialty shop to have them take a look at it.


I have had it a 2 different shops and they both say that everything is "in the green" I will get the printout this week. A few nights ago we spent 2 hours at the shop trying to dial it in but when we went for a test drive, it would come back like \ /

The upper control arms are SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=25460

I have tightened and marked the camber bolt on the UCA to see if they have moved and they have stayed put.
Click to expand...

What about the LCA cams? Have a picture of your lower cams? Maybe something with the non OEM LCAs. Strange though that you definitely have the positive camber going on before you did anything to it and still have it now. Maybe take some photos of your front setup : LCA, UCA, Coilover, ball joints.
 
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Timmy1909 said:
The picture posted is the day I bought it... I had a bad bushing in the LCA so I replaced them NON OEM new control arms. I have tried looking for whiteline bushings, where are you all getting them from? Whitelines US website says that they are out of stock of the W53377A kit. I have also ordered new OEM Lower Ball joints as I dont know what is in there (cheap insurance) After I replace the LCA bushings and the ball Lower ball joints I am taking it to a 4x4 specialty shop to have them take a look at it.


I have had it a 2 different shops and they both say that everything is "in the green" I will get the printout this week. A few nights ago we spent 2 hours at the shop trying to dial it in but when we went for a test drive, it would come back like \ /

The upper control arms are SPC Adjustable Upper Control Arms http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=25460

I have tightened and marked the camber bolt on the UCA to see if they have moved and they have stayed put.
Click to expand...


There's your problem. Aftermarket LCAs. You can get the whiteline bushings off Amazon. Heres the part #W53377A
 
2 things

There's looks to be quite a bit of "space" between the LCA mounting points and the frame (where the bushings are). When you mount the LCAs they should just about squeeze into place. In your picture there looks to be a larger than normal gap in this area.

Also, those coilovers look HUGE. Are they right for the 4Runner?

One other thing, your LCA cam adjusters. For your setup, to get more camber (and caster) you want your rear adjusters 180 degrees opposite where they are. Another words, the "D" shaped cut out should be pointing toward the inner part of the truck. Right now they are pointing towards the tires which is essentially shortening your LCAs. If you turned both Front and rear cam adjusters so the "D" is pointing inward your LCAs would be max length, pushing the bottom of the tire out for more negative camber but you lose a lot of your caster. That's why many guys turn the rear ones in and the front ones out and dial in the camber with the UCA camber setting. Ideally, you want to do this while on an alignment rack. However, I still think something is up with your LCA, or bushings.
 
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Timmy1909 said:
Checked my 98 as it is all stock and the gap was the same on the LCA...

Those are standard 600lb springs from the Toytec boss kit.


BOSS Lift Kit for '96-'02 4Runner
Click to expand...

Re read my post for the edit. All things being good then the only explanation is your "alignment guys" are doing something wrong, one of which I mentioned in my edit. Also, the 2nd picture from the bottom, the one of the lower rear bushing, something just doesnt look right. Looks twisted, and that's the one I thought the gap was too much.
 
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JRZEE2000TR4LTD said:
Re read my post for the edit. All things being good then the only explanation is your "alignment guys" are doing something wrong, one of which I mentioned in my edit. Also, the 2nd picture from the bottom, the one of the lower rear bushing, something just doesnt look right. Looks twisted, and that's the one I thought the gap was too much.
Click to expand...


Thank you!! I will forward this to the next place I have align it. I am however going to install the whiteline bushings first and try to verify that the lower ball joints are stock... if not I will replace them with OEM ones.

With all the stuff you see on the truck I only paid just over 3k for it... I worked at a dealership and it came in on trade and they had no clue what they had...

Again... thank you all for your help. I only hope I can get this thing right so I can put the new Tires I bought for it on.
 
Timmy1909 said:
Thank you!! I will forward this to the next place I have align it. I am however going to install the whiteline bushings first and try to verify that the lower ball joints are stock... if not I will replace them with OEM ones.

With all the stuff you see on the truck I only paid just over 3k for it... I worked at a dealership and it came in on trade and they had no clue what they had...

Again... thank you all for your help. I only hope I can get this thing right so I can put the new Tires I bought for it on.
Click to expand...

Read this link specifically post #14 from Bigfishallday. Sound familar?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/161421-front-lca.html
 
Remember that when torquing control arm bushings where they see a lot of strain, they must be torqued to final spec with the weight of the vehicle on them. They can not be torqued fully with no weight on them as it will cause them to bind when the suspension does settle on the ground.
 
JRZEE2000TR4LTD said:
Re read my post for the edit. All things being good then the only explanation is your "alignment guys" are doing something wrong, one of which I mentioned in my edit. Also, the 2nd picture from the bottom, the one of the lower rear bushing, something just doesnt look right. Looks twisted, and that's the one I thought the gap was too much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, getting paid while not knowing what they are doing!
 
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