Trail/Off Road with KDSS to ‘19 Pro

[Quentin]

Who cares about the Pro skid when one can get a nice RCI aluminum one made for KDSS.

The guy I quoted said that the clearance had to be the same because the Pro skidplate fits with just cutouts for the swaybars. My response was that it wasn’t totally true since some other components had to come off on the KDSS versions (that don’t need removed on non-KDSS versions) for the plate to install. Skidplate preference is inconsequential to the discussion. The Pro plate was already being used as “proof” that the clearance was the same... which it isn’t.



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[Quentin]

back on topic, I was just on my local craigslist and this sums up my argument of how the PRO is a waste of money for a lot of people unless they are getting it for the paint color. (Which is understandable)

Toyota 2019 4 Runner TRD PRO - cars & trucks - by owner - vehicle automotive sale

He wants 62k for a white PRO which has very little PRO left. LOL

As the person who started the topic, whether the pro is a waste of money or not is actually not the topic at all. I wanted ON-ROAD impressions from people that had experience driving a KDSS 4Runner and the ‘19 Pro. Nothing more. It completely devolved into a shitshow of people really concerned about how I spend or don’t spend my money.


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[Cheers!]

I'd do it for the smurf blue colour.

 

[Offwidth]

As the person who started the topic, whether the pro is a waste of money or not is actually not the topic at all. I wanted ON-ROAD impressions from people that had experience driving a KDSS 4Runner and the ‘19 Pro. Nothing more. It completely devolved into a shitshow of people really concerned about how I spend or don’t spend my money.

Just take a good quick ride over a mountain road. KDSS is superior. No shock valves change that.

 

[Jetboy]

The guy I quoted said that the clearance had to be the same because the Pro skidplate fits with just cutouts for the swaybars. My response was that it wasn’t totally true since some other components had to come off on the KDSS versions (that don’t need removed on non-KDSS versions) for the plate to install. Skidplate preference is inconsequential to the discussion. The Pro plate was already being used as “proof” that the clearance was the same... which it isn’t.



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Here's a picture of the steel KDSS skid on my 4Runner. If you could point to the spot that hangs lower than the Diff skid behind it that is shared with all 4Runners, maybe I'm missing it? Clearance is the same. You can check with a tape measure.

Also the TRD Pro skid is pretty disappointing. Mine lasted a few months before it was bent/broken. I bent it back as close to straight as I could and cut it up to use with my plow bracket, so I still can get it to bolt into place. But it's not a good skid plate if rocks are in your future. It's mostly a cosmetic change, not a functional one. The regular stamped steel one is better functionally.

Also I would suspect the fox suspension on the 19 pro is quite good at dampening. They should be a big upgrade over the bilsteins. However, they can't help much with handling in terms of body roll or nose dive. That would be directly antithetical to the entire purpose of bypass shocks - which is to provide very progressive valving. Having great small bump compliance then ramping the dampening up very quickly is what bypass shocks are all about. That concept is not compatible with also acting digressive for high low speed dampening that would help body roll. 4Runners inherently have a lot due in large part to the rear suspension spring location. I would not expect a TRD Pro to go around corners very well on the road. I would expect them to be pretty nice over speed bumps and highway cracks. So - I think the question is what do you prefer?

 

[aroslv]

As the person who started the topic, whether the pro is a waste of money or not is actually not the topic at all. I wanted ON-ROAD impressions from people that had experience driving a KDSS 4Runner and the ‘19 Pro. Nothing more. It completely devolved into a shitshow of people really concerned about how I spend or don’t spend my money.


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So you were discussing changing over from a trail to a PRO and some simply pointed out you can have the best of both worlds for much cheaper with your trail. How is that not relevant to the topic?

If you don't care about money why even start a topic? Buy the PRO and throw money at it until your happy, pretty simple.

 

[MTN4RNR]

This thread is still going?! Ida bet $$$ at the beginning of the week that it would have fallen into the page 2 pit of despair by now...:heh:

 

[Offwidth]

This thread is still going?! Ida bet $$$ at the beginning of the week that it would have fallen into the page 2 pit of despair by now...:heh:

And here you are, bringing it back.

 

[YellowSnow]

Here's a picture of the steel KDSS skid on my 4Runner. If you could point to the spot that hangs lower than the Diff skid behind it that is shared with all 4Runners, maybe I'm missing it? Clearance is the same. You can check with a tape measure.

Also the TRD Pro skid is pretty disappointing. Mine lasted a few months before it was bent/broken. I bent it back as close to straight as I could and cut it up to use with my plow bracket, so I still can get it to bolt into place. But it's not a good skid plate if rocks are in your future. It's mostly a cosmetic change, not a functional one. The regular stamped steel one is better functionally.

Also I would suspect the fox suspension on the 19 pro is quite good at dampening. They should be a big upgrade over the bilsteins. However, they can't help much with handling in terms of body roll or nose dive. That would be directly antithetical to the entire purpose of bypass shocks - which is to provide very progressive valving. Having great small bump compliance then ramping the dampening up very quickly is what bypass shocks are all about. That concept is not compatible with also acting digressive for high low speed dampening that would help body roll. 4Runners inherently have a lot due in large part to the rear suspension spring location. I would not expect a TRD Pro to go around corners very well on the road. I would expect them to be pretty nice over speed bumps and highway cracks. So - I think the question is what do you prefer?

The Fox OEM on the Pro is not a big upgrade compared to my 5100/Wheelers suspension with JBA UCAs. I’ve driven both recently, and the roll and nose dive us still worse on the Pro than my Trail/KDSS. I’m also sitting almost two inches higher...

 

[MAST4R]

Here's a picture of the steel KDSS skid on my 4Runner. If you could point to the spot that hangs lower than the Diff skid behind it that is shared with all 4Runners, maybe I'm missing it? Clearance is the same. You can check with a tape measure.

. So - I think the question is what do you prefer?

I think most of us here agree that different trims suit different tastes and uses.

I am the one who brought the clearance issue. A KDSS is even visually lower than an SR5 or non-KDSS TRD under the front skid. That's why I did check with a tape measure. And it is an inch lower under the front edge, such as it is on a stock one, of the front skid.

I have no idea what the clearance further back is on the KDSS. Mine was 9.2 under the oil pan skid when it was brand new.

Yours is far too improved to tell anything about a new one on the dealer's lot

The aftermarket KDSS skids continue straight for much longer before sloping upwards. So I guess the thick sway bar is the culprit.

Show stopper? No. Annoying? Yes.

 

[Jetboy]

The Fox OEM on the Pro is not a big upgrade compared to my 5100/Wheelers suspension with JBA UCAs. I’ve driven both recently, and the roll and nose dive us still worse on the Pro than my Trail/KDSS. I’m also sitting almost two inches higher...

It's a huge upgrade. You're comparing $100 digressive shocks to $4,000 progressive bypass shocks. But for the height issue, I'd trade my fox factory shocks for trd pro without question.

 

[Jetboy]

I think most of us here agree that different trims suit different tastes and uses.

I am the one who brought the clearance issue. A KDSS is even visually lower than an SR5 or non-KDSS TRD under the front skid. That's why I did check with a tape measure. And it is an inch lower under the front edge, such as it is on a stock one, of the front skid.

I have no idea what the clearance further back is on the KDSS. Mine was 9.2 under the oil pan skid when it was brand new.

Yours is far too improved to tell anything about a new one on the dealer's lot

The aftermarket KDSS skids continue straight for much longer before sloping upwards. So I guess the thick sway bar is the culprit.

Show stopper? No. Annoying? Yes.

The skid is flat on the bottom.... I don't think anyone could argue that it's not. It extends about 6-8 further forward. To be an inch lower the frame would need to be a foot lower in the front than the rear of the vehicle. At most it could be 1 or 2/16th. If you put the pro skid on, if course it's identical to a pro. Same skid, same mounting.

 

[Offwidth]

The aftermarket KDSS skids continue straight for much longer before sloping upwards. So I guess the thick sway bar is the culprit.

Show stopper? No. Annoying? Yes.

I have not installed C4 bumper yet, just received today, but the state of my front valance clearly shows I hit it first before getting to sway bar. RCI KDSS compatible skid is just slightly larger - horizontally.

 

[YellowSnow]

It's a huge upgrade. You're comparing $100 digressive shocks to $4,000 progressive bypass shocks. But for the height issue, I'd trade my fox factory shocks for trd pro without question.

So now you want to debate my experiences driving both? Let me ask you...have you driven both a TRD OR/Trail with 5100/Wheeler coilovers and a Pro on the same day, one right after the next? Don’t worry...i will wait

 

[MAST4R]

I have not installed C4 bumper yet, just received today, but the state of my front valance clearly shows I hit it first before getting to sway bar. RCI KDSS compatible skid is just slightly larger - horizontally.

I don't doubt it, I just find it very surprising from my SW perspective.

Where are you offroading to run out of AA on a 4Runner with any regularity? Here this would only happen on very difficult and extreme trails.

The only reason my front valance is not pretty is that I climbed an earth/gravel wall after the huge fall rainfalls messed up a big wash.

But the skids take a lot of beating, chiefly on moderate trails where terrain changes often and abruptly and speeds are not always low. The only exception was when I had to drag them due to lack of clearance while crawling, but that was just once.

My RCI skids were at 8.75" at the front edge about the same a stock KDSS has to the factory skid. Clearance was at 8.1" under the differential bulge and 8.25" to the rear of the skid. I just put Dobinsons 59-238 chiefly to correct for the clearance lost to skids.

EDIT: not sure why the picture is not showing. Nothing special anyway. Just shows use. The front edge was completely stripped of powdercoat before I repainted all skids last week (and chased the tread of all holes and replaced some of the bolts).

Also, I can discuss minor clearance changes at nauseum but it is hardly on topic here.

 

[Quentin]

So you were discussing changing over from a trail to a PRO and some simply pointed out you can have the best of both worlds for much cheaper with your trail. How is that not relevant to the topic?

Because I honestly don’t care to toss out a perfectly serviceable suspension and potentially introduce fitment headaches. For my usage, there isn’t a great case to be made to modify versus letting it be. If the Pro suspension was a sloppy mess on-road, that could be enough of a deal breaker to just stick with my stock KDSS Trail since I spend a fair amount of time winding through WV roads.

If you don't care about money why even start a topic? Buy the PRO and throw money at it until your happy, pretty simple.

I started the topic because I can’t find any reviews out in the googles that strongly comment on the on road handling characteristics of the Fox suspension. All of them, at this point, focus on the off-road aspect. Really any 4Runner trim is acceptably capable off-road for my needs, so that side of the equation wasn’t a concern.

Honestly, I posted a harsh response to you because I was a bit irritated about where this thread went and all the nastiness that came. It wasn’t meant to be a platform for people to belittle one another and the focus became everyone trying to show how dumb the other side was. I was hoping to get on road impressions by people that had driven/owned both.


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[Jetboy]

So now you want to debate my experiences driving both? Let me ask you...have you driven both a TRD OR/Trail with 5100/Wheeler coilovers and a Pro on the same day, one right after the next? Don’t worry...i will wait

I'll absolutely debate your experience. Personally, i haven't had 5100s since my 3rd gen. I do have fox shocks on my 4runner and I've driven it back to back with a lot of models. 5100s are not comparable for a ton of reasons. Primarily they are digressive. The valve stack and pistons are totally different. I am assuming the bypass are better than my fox 2.5s. They should be unless fox totally botched the valves. And typically everything you write is wrong. Not sure why this would be different.

 

[YellowSnow]

I'll absolutely debate your experience. Personally, i haven't had 5100s since my 3rd gen. I do have fox shocks on my 4runner and I've driven it back to back with a lot of models. 5100s are not comparable. And typically everything you write is wrong. Not sure why this would be different.

So the answer is no...you don’t have experience driving both. 3rd Gen? Nice try Grandpa. Fox shocks? But not TRD Pro oem Fox shocks....you just continue to spew inane drivel, with zero first hand experience on what is being discussed.

 

[Jetboy]

So the answer is no...you don’t have experience driving both. 3rd Gen? Nice try Grandpa. Fox shocks? But not TRD Pro oem Fox shocks....you just continue to spew inane drivel, with zero first hand experience on what is being discussed.

I'll let you on on a secret; 5100s aren't great shocks. They're not bad. They're just basic replacements that are slightly larger than OEM. They're fine for street driving. They're digressive. Thats not a good combo with kdss. It's not great in the dirt. Bilstein's better off road shocks like the 8xxx and up are progressive. 5100s a good value. I've had them. They work okay. Im not sure why you want to pretend they're soming they're not.

 

[sn_85]

I'll let you on on a secret; 5100s aren't great shocks. They're not bad. They're just basic replacements that are slightly larger than OEM. They're fine for street driving. They're digressive. Thats not a good combo with kdss. It's not great in the dirt. Bilstein's better off road shocks like the 8xxx and up are progressive. 5100s a good value. I've had them. They work okay. Im not sure why you want to pretend they're soming they're not.

Let it go man, you can't win this one. There's no reasoning with a crazy person.