Trail or Limited for snow on city roads

This is my first post here. In the market for a 4Runner.
Thanks to all for all the great info on this board. Was going to post with a number of questions but most have been answered through searching of various threads.

For the Trail vs. Limited question, I fall more in the group of not needing true off road and from the posts above, seems like people would suggest Limited, although I really love the Trail look.

My question is: Limited with the FT 4wd clearly seems to better for normal mixed bad weather driving (I live in Philly where a few inches is typically what we would get a a lot of mixed stuff).

That being said, is the Trail in 2wd still a very good option in its handling in wintry conditions (without switching between 4wd, where most of the time the conditions wouldnt be that bad to allow it)? And how much does the answer change with and without the KDSS?
I would not want to be driving a Trail in 2WD in snow with all season tires. KDSS isn't going to make any difference in handling in snow. What KDSS does is to reduce body roll while turning on the road, but still allow greater articulation while offroad.

For your needs, get the Limited. If you want to, you can make it look like a Trail. Check out harper7's rig -- that's what he did. I'm sure it wasn't cheap, but it can be done.
 
That being said, is the Trail in 2wd still a very good option in its handling in wintry conditions (without switching between 4wd, where most of the time the conditions wouldnt be that bad to allow it)? And how much does the answer change with and without the KDSS?

Appreciate the feedback.
IF conditions aren't all that bad, AND you swap out the stock tires for something more appropriate for winter driving, then RWD will perform as well as a Torsen. Where a Torsen (as used in the Limited) makes a difference is where you have bare patches of pavement intermixed with patches of snow and ice. KDSS doesn't come into play at all. If you have a TE with stock tires and want to go play slalom on a snow-covered highway in 2H, make sure you have AAA.
 
IF conditions aren't all that bad, AND you swap out the stock tires for something more appropriate for winter driving, then RWD will perform as well as a Torsen. Where a Torsen (as used in the Limited) makes a difference is where you have bare patches of pavement intermixed with patches of snow and ice. KDSS doesn't come into play at all. If you have a TE with stock tires and want to go play slalom on a snow-covered highway in 2H, make sure you have AAA.

I completely disagree. You're comparing a RWD 4Runner with a 4WD 4Runner. Unless the roads are clear and dry, there's really no comparison. Even if there's a small amount of snow on the roads, the 4WD wins every time.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a 2wd 4Runner: Unless you live in Florida, get 4wd. Despite what some people may tell you, the 4Runner is horrible in snow if you only have RWD. It's just too light in the back to get good traction on snow. But if you have 4wd, it's magically transforms into a snow beast.
 
When the Torsen is NOT locked it is a limited slip diff transferring torque to the front or back depending on where the traction is. Only the Limited can do this.

Koz
 
When the Torsen is NOT locked it is a limited slip diff transferring torque to the front or back depending on where the traction is. Only the Limited can do this.

Koz

Yup, that's a good point and 100% correct. The Limited is your only choice if you want that in a 5th gen. And of course every 4th gen ever made (4wd models) has a Torsen. It really does work terrific when driving on snowy roads with changing conditions.
 
I completely disagree. You're comparing a RWD 4Runner with a 4WD 4Runner. Unless the roads are clear and dry, there's really no comparison. Even if there's a small amount of snow on the roads, the 4WD wins every time.

My advice to anyone thinking of buying a 2wd 4Runner: Unless you live in Florida, get 4wd. Despite what some people may tell you, the 4Runner is horrible in snow if you only have RWD. It's just too light in the back to get good traction on snow. But if you have 4wd, it's magically transforms into a snow beast.
You completely missed the original question, as Trail Editions do not come in 2WD, and I was very specific in how I qualified my answer. Go read the part I quoted again: not bad conditions, a trail edition, not switching back and forth between 2 and 4 WD... context is everything.
 
I'm going through the same debate here in the countryside outside Toronto. That is a good price - difference between dealer invoice and MSRP on the 2011 Ltd without nav is only 5100.
 
That is a good price for Canada - difference between Dealer inv and msrp on the limited without Nav is only 5100 on the 2011s. Well done OP!

I am looking at this same issue as well as considering a Tacoma DC Sport for other reasons. The FT 4WD on the 4th Gen is great in the snow - the last thing I want to be doing when I hit a patch of drifting snow is reaching for a lever (I have lost count of how many vehicles I have seen in a ditch due to a sudden unexpected deep rutted section of snow on an otherwise clear road round where I live). The thing is, once you are in the Ltd price range you could even be looking at a Sequoia in Canada (if you can handle the mpg and bulk). The premium on the Ltds in Canada is insane and they insist on putting those 20" rims on them which I really would not want - heaven knows what a replacement tire is on one of those - and I could see the rims suffering on the rough country roads round by me as well. I cannot imagine anyone daring to drive on a gravel driveway let alone offroad with those rims.

My ideal would be the Trail edition for the ride of the KDSS and the sensibly sized wheels but with the FT 4WD of the Ltd.

By the way OP - if the 5th Gens are anything like the 4ths I highly recommend you activate 4Lo and 4Hi with diff lock every now and again to keep the actuator lubed. Enjoy!
 
i drive both our 4Runners quite a bit. '03 V8 Sport (Torsen) and '10 Trail (PT 4WD). while i think we have better "winter" tires on the '03, i also feel like the Torsen 4WD feels better at making turns on snow covered roads. i feel like there is less understeer with having a little more power going to the rear wheels.

i really like the Trail better than the Limited, but i feel the Limited would be a better winter road driving vehicle. i just can't get past the skirts....
 
You completely missed the original question, as Trail Editions do not come in 2WD, and I was very specific in how I qualified my answer. Go read the part I quoted again: not bad conditions, a trail edition, not switching back and forth between 2 and 4 WD... context is everything.

I understood exactly what you were saying, no confusion at all. I didn't mean to say a 2wd 4Runner, I meant to say a 4Runner in 2wd. You just can't compare the two in any kind of snowy conditions. Maybe dry roads, but that's about it.
 
i drive both our 4Runners quite a bit. '03 V8 Sport (Torsen) and '10 Trail (PT 4WD). while i think we have better "winter" tires on the '03, i also feel like the Torsen 4WD feels better at making turns on snow covered roads. i feel like there is less understeer with having a little more power going to the rear wheels.
Not surprising at all.

i really like the Trail better than the Limited, but i feel the Limited would be a better winter road driving vehicle. i just can't get past the skirts....
Take a look at harper7's ride. He bought a Limited, but changed out the skirts to make it look like a TE.
 
I understood exactly what you were saying, no confusion at all. I didn't mean to say a 2wd 4Runner, I meant to say a 4Runner in 2wd.
The OP asked if the "Trail in 2wd still a very good option" and I said yes if you get good tires, while you said "Unless the roads are clear and dry, there's really no comparison. Even if there's a small amount of snow on the roads, the 4WD wins every time" which wasn't the question. They were asking if it was a good option, not the perfect solution. You then added "the 4Runner is horrible in snow if you only have RWD. It's just too light in the back to get good traction on snow", which I think is pure BS when there is less than 55 pounds difference between the two versions. In the scenario outlined by the OP, he's not planning to be plowing through snow drifts or driving through blizzards in 2Hi, he just wants to know if RWD is okay in "not bad" conditions... which it is.
You just can't compare the two in any kind of snowy conditions. Maybe dry roads, but that's about it.
Actually, you can compare the two. The difference between a Torsen center Diff and RWD is not as drastic a difference as you imply, especially "in light snow". Is it better in mixed conditions? Yes, but we are talking small differences, not huge differences. There are plenty of people driving around in 2WD (R or F) vehicles throughout the winter season that haven't gone in a ditch or spun out of control or skidded through an intersection, just as there are plenty of people with Torsens in their cars or trucks that have done all those things. A 4Runner in 2Hi in mixed conditions just requires more skill but you make it sound like it's a Geo Tracker and I take issue with that because it simply isn't true.
 
Last edited:
Thanks all, appreciate the insightful feedback.

Clearly for what I described, it seems as Ltd would be the winner. As SeattleMike put it though, it seems like the Trail in 2wd is still a good option and 'solid' if you will, certainly better than many other options on the road, cars, even other 2wd SUVs etc.

I guess its safe to assume that for the rest of the year in non wintry conditions (most of the time in Philly), that the two would be a push? Or does a KDSS Trail win out due to its body roll limiting advantages? Not trying to force the Trail issue too much for me here if it doesnt make sense, but where I live, wintry condition driving is not the normal circumstance and as you put it I am not looking to do any aggressive snow driving.

I did see the post on the Trail body replacement part swap out, and while doable, definitely seems like a pretty big undertaking. Seems straightforward on the surface with just replacing 30 parts, but considering how finicky that can be, probably not something I am trying to do on my own by taking apart my new T4R. And at 2K +, definitely not cheap.
 
I guess its safe to assume that for the rest of the year in non wintry conditions (most of the time in Philly), that the two would be a push? Or does a KDSS Trail win out due to its body roll limiting advantages? Not trying to force the Trail issue too much for me here if it doesnt make sense, but where I live, wintry condition driving is not the normal circumstance and as you put it I am not looking to do any aggressive snow driving.
The Limiteds have XREAS, which helps with body roll so that's a wash. KDSS allows larger sway bars than you would normally get because the system disconnects them in situation you find offroad. On pavement, it's probably a wash. Things you lose buy buying a Trail instead of a Limited: dual zone climate control, leather interior, Safety Connect, potential 3Rd Row seating, keyless push button start, puddle lights on the mirrors, and most of the chrome.

I own a Trail because I go offroad, I want to do so for long periods at a time, and I plan on doing so for a very long time. I can upgrade my suspension and keep KDSS; upgrading XREAS means replacing it with something other than XREAS. As a Trail owner (with all the bias some people might assign to that), I think a Limited fits your needs best. If you are going to get a Trail, then get one with KDSS and Nav if for no other reason than ride comfort and resale value.
 
Thanks Mike, very helpful.

Just so I understand the differences, if you are comparing the LTD vs SR5, the biggest functional differences being the X-REAS and full time Torsen diff vs part time on the SR5 and no X-REAS; does the part time 2wd on the SR5function and perform similarly to the Trail (without considering other features on Trail)? The LTD is a lot more than the SR5 which includes these differences as well as the other bells and whistles you mentioned, so I assume you would definitely go with the LTD vs SR5. Asking because of the cost difference because the SR5 seems cheaper even with the premium package to get most of the bells and whistles.

Also, in reading some of the negatives/complaints on the larger LTD wheels, would the dealer swap these out for the 17s?
 
Just so I understand the differences, if you are comparing the LTD vs SR5, the biggest functional differences being the X-REAS and full time Torsen diff vs part time on the SR5 and no X-REAS; does the part time 2wd on the SR5function and perform similarly to the Trail (without considering other features on Trail)?
Yes, the SR5 is the same basic part time system as the Trail. It doesn't have the terrain select, crawl control, etc., which aren't terribly important to me. The Trail Edition also has a locking rear differential, which is quite valuable offroad.

The SR5 does not have either XREAS or KDSS, so I think you will find that it has a good bit more body roll than either the Limited or Trail.

Also, in reading some of the negatives/complaints on the larger LTD wheels, would the dealer swap these out for the 17s?
They may or may not swap them for the stock 18s on an SR5. You would do better selling them to a fellow with an SR5, in exchange for his 18s.
 
... You then added "the 4Runner is horrible in snow if you only have RWD. It's just too light in the back to get good traction on snow", which I think is pure BS when there is less than 55 pounds difference between the two versions.

Boy, we are really have communication problems here. I'm not talking about the weight difference between a 2wd 4Runner and 4wd 4Runner. That's meaningless. What I'm saying is that all 4Runners suck in snow when they are in RWD because the back end is light and it doesn't allow for good traction. Trust me, my 4Runner can get stuck in just a few inches of snow on a very modest incline when it's in RWD. Put it in 4wd and it's a beast. That's all I'm saying. So for guys with 2wd 4Runners, you better get some weight in the back (and some good tires or tire chains) if you're hoping to go in the snow.

Actually, you can compare the two. The difference between a Torsen center Diff and RWD is not as drastic a difference as you imply, especially "in light snow". .

Disagree. It's not even comparable. RWD, even with limited slip or a true locker will in no way compare to a 4Runner with a Torsen center diff. Again, that's comparing a RWD 4Runner vs a 4wd 4Runner.
 
Hey guy, i currently own a rav4 2wd sport addition that has auto lsd. Last mont we went for vacation in a cabin in NC. The road wasnt bad until we reach to the mountain side where i had to climb up the stip road tha was misx with dirt and gravels, obviously i got stuck but right beside me an old ford truck climb up like drinking water. There i noticed having a 4wd is really good. Now i am deciding to buy a4wd. I did some research for a good suv with 4wd and i came across jeep grand cherokee and toyota 4runner. Jeep in not as spacious as 4runner therefore i am going for the 4runner. But here is my problem, i love the comfort of limited edition with two zone climate control and etc.. On the other hand i love the rear diff lock in trail edition. I did some research and people say limited is not as capable as trail in offroading due to the center diff lock only. Not that i want to go hard core offroading but i want to but a car that i want to make sure i wont get stuck. Some people say limited with center diff lock if one wheel i. Front and one wheel in back slips there is no way out unlike with trail with rear lock as long as one wheel has traction there wouldn't be any problem. Is that true? Is the limited as capable as trail in snow mud, gravels, steep slippery roads? I appreciate if some one can help me decide. Does any one had gone offroading with limited edition? How did it handle the offroad situation? Thanks all.
 
Oh my gosh...the 4Runner is so much better in the snow than my old Honda Pilot AWD ever was. Better balanced and pushes thru anything....just with the stock tires. The Pilot with studded snow tires isn't even a close match. Real 4x4's rule!!!
 
$5,000 difference w/ nav vs. Trail...

I'd just get an aftermarket nav and get the Trail, saving some cash. Plus you like the look more so why not! Plus you can get some winter tires, which really, is where it counts. Not 4wd vs 2wd. Winter tires are going to help you get going and more importantly, stop. But with all the salt you guys put on the roads out East, I'm surprised anything is left on the roads LOL.

If I could go back and do it all over again (or have the option to change/swap parts), I'd get a Limited w/ Nav for the interior, no 3rd row seating or sliding tray with the exterior, suspension and drivetrain of the Trail w/ the SR5 wheels. Perfect combination from the factory.

Sadly I don't see that happening lol. Unless of course I'm willing to spend thousands and thousands to change the parts myself.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
278,316
Messages
3,554,122
Members
248,016
Latest member
Advally Service

Trending content

Back
Top