Trail or Trail PREMIUM – ARRGGHH – I’m ready to order but....?

[High_Country]

I am getting ready to order a 2015 and continue to go back and forth between the Trail and Trail Premium. Based on the forum research and online Toyota research, the following are the differences between the Trail and Trail Premium (perhaps this will help others):

Trail has fabric seats and a 4 way manual PASSENGER seat. Premium adds ‘Softex’ (leather-like) fabric, seat heaters for two front seats, and 4 way power passenger seat.

Base Trail outside mirrors are heated, powered, and color matched. The Premium adds puddle lamps and turn signal indicators to the outside mirrors.
The Premium comes with the Homelink Universal transceiver. You cannot get this on the base Trail.

The Premium comes standard with the Entune Premium Audio with Navigation and App Suite. This is an OPTION with the base trail. Interestingly enough, this option is automatically selected and packaged with KDSS on the base Trail.

The base Trail gets a glare-proof mechanical inside rear view mirror. The Premium gets an auto-dimming rearview mirror.

BUT THE BIGGEST CONCERN I am wrestling with is the Premium gets the power tilt/slide moonroof with sunshade which markedly decreases headroom inside the vehicle. The specs indicated about a 0.7 inch difference but I have sat in 4Runners with and without them and it feels like much more than that. I am 6’-4”. While I was test driving the Trail Premium with a ball cap on, I found that if I didn’t sit just right I would brush the headliner with my head. If I consciously wiggled down into the seat and got comfy, it wasn’t a big deal, but it was close and I’m afraid I will be frustrated in the future (especially on bouncy trails, etc).

Because of this I am considering getting the Trail and ADDING leather and seat heaters (like Paul May did) at a cost of about $1100 (I feel comfortable doing the work). I would opt for the KDSS that would also get me the same Navi and radio as the Premium. The cost SAVINGS by going with the base instead of the premium as I want it is about $2100. $1100 of that will be erased by the leather and seat heaters. That would leave $1000-ish for sliders, skids, fuel, whatever. I would have leather, heated seats, navi and such just like on the Premium. I would NOT have puddle lamps and turn signal indicators (no big deal) or the Homelink (not a big deal) and most importantly, not a sunroof.

Is there a question in this post? Yes.

Would it be a mistake to get the base Trail and modify with leather and seat heaters? It doesn’t appear that resale value will be severely decreased by going with the trail instead of the trail premium, correct? I have seen a number of posts recently about cramped headroom, seat foam shaving, etc with regards to the sunroof – any other tall guys want to weigh in? Is it becoming frustrating? Or, does the seat break in and give you more headroom after awhile?

I have a tendency to get ‘paralysis by analysis’ and overthink things (can’t you tell?). But, I also tend to make long term commitments and this vehicle would be one of those and I want to be happy.

It’s honestly not a money issue – I can afford either. It’s a functional / comfort issue as well as a small concern about resale / residual value. So, any opinions, experience, etc is very much appreciated. I’m seriously waiting on this last decision to order.

 

[1engineer]

6'4" 250 lb. Drove 840+ miles Saturday. Stocks seats very comfortable. Plenty of headroom. Driven almost 50K in it in the last 22 months. No issues on comfort. Matter of fact I tweaked my back on Friday while mountain biking and was a little woried about the long drive Saturday. No issues.

 

[grimmjeeper]

I'm an engineer and I tend to over analyze to the point of paralysis by analysis as well. I too am about to pull the trigger on a Trail but I'm going with the non-premium one because I don't really care about most of what the premium adds but also because I really prefer the fabric seats. I've owned vehicles with all types of seats in them from vinyl to cloth to leather and everything in between. And quite frankly I can't stand how poorly leather (and vinyl/simulated leather) breathes. I hate getting out of a vehicle with a sweaty back and posterior. Now, I did consider the Limited because it comes with ventilated leather and that makes a huge difference but there's several reasons I want a Trail specifically so I'm not going to go with the Limited.

I'm not as tall as you at 6'0" but I've got a taller torso and shorter legs than average so I tend to run my seats as low as I can to get sufficient head room. I prefer vehicles without the sliding sunroof for that reason. I had a car with a pop up sunroof in my past and that was a nice way to get air flowing through the vehicle. But when you have a huge intrusion into the cabin for the sliding mechanism, the loss of headroom makes it not worth it for me.

It's an easy decision for me since I specifically want cloth seats and head room. But since you want leather, that really makes it difficult.

Since you say you can do the work and you have no trouble spending the money to change over to leather, why wouldn't you get the one that gives you the headroom that you want? Like you say, it's a long term commitment. Why live with the compromise of brushing your hat on the ceiling for years (or decades) that you can't change when you can get the one with the headroom you need and seats you can change?

 

[philsey]

My SR5 has the "Premium Pkg" which, in 2010 at least, included 6-way (or was it 8-way?) power leather seats. This allows me to raise and lower my seat.

 

[chmura]

I'm only 6'1" and the headroom is lacking in the 4runner with sunroof. I sat in a 4runner trail premium and 4runner trail without sunroof. Without the sunroof there is much more headroom. There is literary an inch between my head and the roof of the 4runner. I keep my hair short but once it gets longer and I style it up a certain way my hair touches the ceiling of the 4runner which is very very annoying.

I'm in the same boat, if I were to purchase a new 4runner it would have to be a TRD Pro or a non premium trail because those two have no sunroofs.

 

[BTLAW]

I went with the non-premium trail and love it. I put in factory leather (real leather) and an auto-dimming mirror with homelink built in. Much more headroom with many of the comforts offered by the premium. Here's the link for the mirror I used. Same one that came in my wife's new Lexus RX and it mounts to the existing bracket.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_5il0k0yvlj_e

 

[Land_Shark]

3rd option

I struggled with this same decision, but for slightly different reasons.

I ended up with the Trail version and purchased the Wet Okole seats. Wet Okole can install seat heaters. I purchased the covers (1st and 2nd row) for about $650 including shipping. Just another option, unless you're dead set on leather, which is a big convenience and looks nice for sure.

 

[Jayhawk5G]

You tall guys (I'm 6'1") do understand you can lower your seat to adjust for whatever minimal loss of headroom the sunroof provides?

The question really comes down to are the features worth the additional cost to you, and what is the main purpose of the vehicle going to be? Only you can answer that one...

 

[High_Country]

Thanks for all the prompt replies! The T4R forum works it's magic again.

While test driving the TEP, I lowered the seat as far as I possibly could; reclined the seat back as far as reasonably comfortable, etc. So, I don't think it's a seat adjustment issue (good idea though).

BTLAW, thanks for the mirror link. That's good to know I can get that feature if I need it. That further narrows the gap between the two.

The vehicle will be used for my daily driver as well as hunting trips, over landing trips to the Rockies, camping, fishing, and general outdoor activities of that sort.

It will admittedly spend most of it's time shuttling me back and forth to work and to daycare but I just returned from a week long trip in the San Juan mountains bouncing all over the place.

Based on the replies, it seems others have had similar experiences or share the same opinion. I'm leaning towards the base Trail and upgrading to leather and heated seats first. Yes, as I make the upgrades the price differential gets smaller, not to mention my time (which is precious with a little one at home) but as grimmjeeper says, I wouldn't be able to modify the trail premium to get more headroom whereas I CAN modify the base Trail to have creature comforts like the Premium.

I haven't ordered yet, so, keep em coming please. I do appreciate the real world feedback.

 

[clucking]

I'm 6'4", have the trail premium, and when I lower the seat all the way down I have at least an inch between my head and the roof.

 

[Lexusbstrdchild]

I'm 6'4", have the trail premium, and when I lower the seat all the way down I have at least an inch between my head and the roof.

+1. I have the same room, I am the same height. Been on some rough trails, have just under 2000 miles and have no regrets over headroom. I too was worried about sunroof issue but it is not an issue.

 

[High_Country]

Well, now you see why I have the dilemma! A guy that's 6'-1" rubs his hair and guys that are 6'-4" says they don't have an issue. Haha.

Now, an inch sure doesn't seem like a 'comfortable' amount of headroom for me. While on the trail I find myself stretching up in the seat at times to see obstacles better and what not and I'd think that inch would get eaten up quick.

I need to go sit in them (again) and do some soul searching.

 

[8086bruce]

You guys have me worried now! Not as tall as you guys at 6-2 but before I ordered my sr5 premium I test drove a base sr5 as it was all the dealer had. Never even gave headroom a thought.

 

[clucking]

Caveat: I have a shaved head. 6'1" guy "style's it up a certain way".

 

[Jayhawk5G]

A Premium Trail Edition with all the factory options that come with it, will be worth more when you are ready to sell or trade than a regular Trail that you had added options too.

You already want almost all the options, and the price will be comparable... so in my mind .7 inches isn't worth the hassle of the alternative plan.

 

[High_Country]

Jayhawk5G - I appreciate that point and that's probably why I'm debating so hard about it. I've say in both and it sure feels like a lot more than 0.7inches.

I really need to go spend some more time inside a premium with the sunroof and get comfortable and see how it feels. When I was test driving it the first time I was focused on about 123 different things, including the headroom. I need to go back for the sole purpose of judging headroom.

 

[High_Country]

And, for perspective, I was set on ordering the trail premium before I started thinking about all this. I like the idea of it being 'ready to go' off the showroom floor - wouldn't have to yank out seats, change upholstery, wire up heaters, etc. I just don't want to cuss the headroom EVERY DAY I get in the thing knowing I could have made a better decision, even if it costs me some time and money in other upgrades.

 

[High_Country]

Went by the dealer on the way home

Okay, after all the great and quick replies from the members out there, I had to go by the dealer on the way home with the express purpose of judging headroom in a trail vs. trail premium. Luckily, the dealership near my house had both. (I'm sure it would have been just as effective to sit in a SR5 and SR5 Premium).

I think I'm going with the Trail (base model). I spent almost ten minutes in each. I first made sure the seats were ALL THE WAY DOWN and then adjusted fore and aft position as well as the reclining angle. I also adjusted the steering wheel for giggles. I achieved a comfortable driving position and then judged the headroom and here's what I found:

In the Trail (base) I had approximately 3 to 3-1/2 'fingers' (hand turned on edge) of clearance between my head and the headliner. It felt very roomy up above and I had room to 'stretch up' and crane my neck as if I was looking over the hood.

In the Trail Premium, I had about 1 to 1-1/2 fingers of clearance. Of particular note is the part that was the closest was not the flat sunroof cover, but the radiused edge of the headliner that surrounds the sunroof and drops down about another inch. This part of the sunroof surround is almost directly above the drivers head - but perhaps one or two inches outboard. This 1 or so finger of clearance was if I was settled in and sitting comfortably. Clearance is clearance right? Well, if I went to wriggle around a bit or fish for something in my pockets (I know - shouldn't do that while driving) or if I tried to crane my neck to look around or over something, my hair and head would brush this radiused surround. And, while recreating, I typically have a ball cap on which would exaggerate the issue.

So, for me, almost unfortunately I think the right answer is the Trail BASE model to give me more headroom. I get it - it won't be a Premium and won't fetch AS HIGH of a resale price - in ten years, what, $20K vs $22K maybe? A couple grand or less? The purchase price difference is $2100 so I'm okay with that. Or, I 'll HAVE to be okay with that.

I'm gonna sleep on it tonight. Let it settle in. And hopefully in the next day or so I'll feel comfortable pulling the trigger!:becky:

 

[Jayhawk5G]

[MENTION=113556]High_Country[/MENTION]

It really comes down to what works best for you, it's your money and your vehicle and you need to be happy. If you are ok with your plan that's all that matters.

One thing to note, most dealers in the Kansas City area where I originally purchased my T4R had options available to add leather and heated seats aftermarket for you. They were able to get the amount included in your loan, and the prices weren't bad. You might inquire and then compare quotes, as your time is valuable and perhaps the dealer could get everything taken care of so you just show up, sign the papers, and drive home with everything completed?

 

[1engineer]

Okay, after all the great and quick replies from the members out there, I had to go by the dealer on the way home with the express purpose of judging headroom in a trail vs. trail premium. Luckily, the dealership near my house had both. (I'm sure it would have been just as effective to sit in a SR5 and SR5 Premium).

I think I'm going with the Trail (base model). I spent almost ten minutes in each. I first made sure the seats were ALL THE WAY DOWN and then adjusted fore and aft position as well as the reclining angle. I also adjusted the steering wheel for giggles. I achieved a comfortable driving position and then judged the headroom and here's what I found:

In the Trail (base) I had approximately 3 to 3-1/2 'fingers' (hand turned on edge) of clearance between my head and the headliner. It felt very roomy up above and I had room to 'stretch up' and crane my neck as if I was looking over the hood.

In the Trail Premium, I had about 1 to 1-1/2 fingers of clearance. Of particular note is the part that was the closest was not the flat sunroof cover, but the radiused edge of the headliner that surrounds the sunroof and drops down about another inch. This part of the sunroof surround is almost directly above the drivers head - but perhaps one or two inches outboard. This 1 or so finger of clearance was if I was settled in and sitting comfortably. Clearance is clearance right? Well, if I went to wriggle around a bit or fish for something in my pockets (I know - shouldn't do that while driving) or if I tried to crane my neck to look around or over something, my hair and head would brush this radiused surround. And, while recreating, I typically have a ball cap on which would exaggerate the issue.

So, for me, almost unfortunately I think the right answer is the Trail BASE model to give me more headroom. I get it - it won't be a Premium and won't fetch AS HIGH of a resale price - in ten years, what, $20K vs $22K maybe? A couple grand or less? The purchase price difference is $2100 so I'm okay with that. Or, I 'll HAVE to be okay with that.

I'm gonna sleep on it tonight. Let it settle in. And hopefully in the next day or so I'll feel comfortable pulling the trigger!:becky:

My friend, by your logic then you need a bus! Taking your logic a step further then means that if you stand up in your seat while driving you will hit your head on the roof so the Base is not good enough either. You can get anything you want of course but your reasoning is suspect. Why? Example:

I drove a long way this past Saturday, like around 900 miles. We all have to stretch right? Well, using your logic of "more clearance is better" rule the 4Runner wouldn't let me:
1. Fully extend my legs until my feet wouldn't hit anything in front of me
2. Fully extend my arms out from my sides without hitting the window or the passenger seat

See the problem?
I have about the same, if not a bit less, clearance between my big head and the headliner radius for the sunroof. I have hit my head one time in close to 100K miles of driving a 5th gen with a sunroof and that was when I dropped in a ditch way too fast.

I don't care what you do but think it through! You spent 10 minutes in one. Did you drive both or just pretend? I spent 17 hours in mine in one day! As long as your hair does not hit the liner you will be fine.

I will tell you one bad thing you will notice and it will be on either the base or premium:
Being tall means we look through the windshield much higher than the average guy. In the 4Runner I look through the windshield right at the rear view mirror, right where the wipers end, right where the sunshade is, etc. Nothing can be done about that and sometimes it is a PITA. Good thing though is with the premium you can use the roof line as a sun visor when traveling west in the evening!