Trail w/KDSS pack. vs. Limited w/Torsen

[bobbarker]

I keep going back and forth now on what I really want now.

I thought I wanted a Trail, but that Torsen center seems like too much of a nice thing to not have. The rear locker can be added-on later for not TOO awful much if I really decide it's necessary. Does ATRAC do a fairly decent job for the casual off-roader?(I'm coming from a Pontiac GTO, so SUVs are new to me) And, I kind of feel like I should have dual climate control and heated leather seats for over 40k. On the downside, I don't really like the wheel/tire package on the Limited, but the stock tires on the Trail aren't the best, either. So, I'm starting to think the Limited is what I really want.

Anybody else conflicted like I am?

Another thought, I think I would prefer the "smaller" roof rack that comes on the Limited, since I'm in and out of parking garages in DC a lot. Anything too much over 6' can start to limit my parking options sometimes.

Basically, we are talking $41k vs. $42k MSRP.

 

[M1911]

I keep going back and forth now on what I really want now.

I thought I wanted a Trail, but that Torsen center seems like too much of a nice thing to not have. The rear locker can be added-on later for not TOO awful much if I really decide it's necessary. Does ATRAC do a fairly decent job for the casual off-roader?(I'm coming from a Pontiac GTO, so SUVs are new to me) And, I kind of feel like I should have dual climate control and heated leather seats for over 40k. On the downside, I don't really like the wheel/tire package on the Limited, but the stock tires on the Trail aren't the best, either. So, I'm starting to think the Limited is what I really want.

Anybody else conflicted like I am?

Yup.

For casual offroading, the ATRAC is fine. I would replace the 20" wheels with 17" wheels, however. I do some offroading with my 2003 Limited. It has the lockable Torsen diff, but no locking rear diff. I do fine, but then I'm not trying to run Moab.

If I had to replace my 4Runner, I'd probably get a Limited and replace the wheels and tires. YMMV.

 

[adkinsadam1]

KDSS is worth getting the trail for. Also approach angles. And the tires on the limited seem really narrow.

 

[bobbarker]

Yup.

For casual offroading, the ATRAC is fine. I would replace the 20" wheels with 17" wheels, however. I do some offroading with my 2003 Limited. It has the lockable Torsen diff, but no locking rear diff. I do fine, but then I'm not trying to run Moab.

If I had to replace my 4Runner, I'd probably get a Limited and replace the wheels and tires. YMMV.

I agree...I would even much prefer the 18" wheels from the old Limited...I think they are pretty decent looking.

 

[bobbarker]

KDSS is worth getting the trail for. Also approach angles. And the tires on the limited seem really narrow.

KDSS is another factor. How bad am I going to miss it if I'm not going to be out fully flexing the suspension very often, if at all? I think the nicer interior and heated seats/dual climate control plus the full time 4wd ability is going to be more suitable to me. I don't like the wheels...I would even prefer the SR5 wheels, I think.

 

[nighthawk]

Or you can look into seeing if you can buy a Canadian Trail edition. They all come with full time 4WD.

 

[4Funnr]

KDSS is another factor. How bad am I going to miss it if I'm not going to be out fully flexing the suspension very often, if at all? I think the nicer interior and heated seats/dual climate control plus the full time 4wd ability is going to be more suitable to me. I don't like the wheels...I would even prefer the SR5 wheels, I think.

I opted for the TE without the KDSS option. I just don't see myself taking my offroading to those kinds of extremes. If the 4x4 system is worth a damn, I'm guessing having one wheel off the ground on occasion shouldn't totally ruin it's performance because the other wheels making contact will pull the vehicle through. Thus, the primary advantage of KDSS for me would simply be the benefit of less cabin roll over moguls and uneven terrain. I can live with a somewhat bumpier ride for a savings of $5k.

I also don't think the wheels on the LTD are very useful. You take a curb the wrong way just once and you could damage one. Although a little ugly, the TE wheels look very suited to their purpose. I wonder how difficult it is to powder coat them gunmetal.

Full-time FWD isn't useful to me, so the LTD was an easy skip.

 

[J.A.]

KDSS is another factor. How bad am I going to miss it if I'm not going to be out fully flexing the suspension very often, if at all?

The KDSS bars are not just a low speed automatic disconnecting hydraulic operated sway bar system, but the bar diameter is significantly larger which will provide much more control of body sway ON ROAD.

front 4x2 = 1.22"
front 4x4 = 1.18"
front LTD 4x4 = 1.22"
front KDSS 4x4 = 1.68"

rear 4x2 = 0.787"
rear 4x4 = 0.787"
rear KDSS 4x4 = 1.18"

 

[JohnsD90]

And the tires on the limited seem really narrow.

unless your doing extreme rock crawling, you want narrow tires for offroading.

 

[Thai]

KDSS is most useful on vehicles withOUT locker(s). Therefore, Toyota should have made KDSS standard on Limited models (and optional on TE). As JA pointed out, KDSS comes with bigger anti-roll bars...so, it helps make cornering flatter on-road (less body roll). Thus, this meets the demands of the Limited 4runner crowd...on-road performance to go along with the big rims. And when you take it off-road, KDSS allows for more suspension flex front and rear.

A vehicle with locker(s) depends less on suspension flex than a vehicle without locker. Thus, the TE can make through an obstacle even if it has limited flex.

 

[Thai]

unless your doing extreme rock crawling, you want narrow tires for offroading.

This is true...narrow tall tires are the thing to have....

 

[4Funnr]

A vehicle with locker(s) depends less on suspension flex than a vehicle without locker. Thus, the TE can make through an obstacle even if it has limited flex.

You just made me feel a lot better about having put my money down on a TE without KDSS.

Thanks!

 

[adkinsadam1]

A vehicle with locker(s) depends less on suspension flex than a vehicle without locker. Thus, the TE can make through an obstacle even if it has limited flex.

But, both features together must make a VERY healthy combination, correct?

 

[Thai]

But, both features together must make a VERY healthy combination, correct?

Yup...best combo. However, not sure about the 4runner's sytem, but the Lexus GX470's KDSS system sure had a few stuff hanging low near the tire below the axle. I am not sure if this would cause it to snag on a rock or damage?? My friend's GX470 KDSS also created issues because he could not install a regular rock sliders due to hardware interfering with the attachment points. I hope that Toyota has done better packaging in the new 4runner TE.

 

[4Funnr]

I can see now how KDSS could maybe be a problem. The hydraulic reservoirs do hang low near the wheels. But proper driving should prevent destroying them.

Now, if you can't put rock sliders I guess you just can't.

The picture below is of the system in a Japanese spec Land Cruiser.

 

[Alex1911]

No worse than the XReas on the Limited... They work, but I blew two of mine around 70k, they were leaking. Worked great though, even when leaking, I do notice a slight difference between them and the Blitzsteins <sp> HD's I now have.

I'm just more interested in bigger sway bars.

 

[M1911]

Worked great though, even when leaking, I do notice a slight difference between them and the Blitzsteins <sp> HD's I now have.

What is the difference that you are noticing? Did you think the trunk rolled less with the XREAS? I've got 85k on my truck, so I'll likely have to replace my XREAS shocks before too long.

 

[Alex1911]

What is the difference that you are noticing? Did you think the trunk rolled less with the XREAS? I've got 85k on my truck, so I'll likely have to replace my XREAS shocks before too long.

It's difficult for me to explain... Roll isn't terribly different, the suspension was stiffer with the XREAS, but I get a rougher ride with the Blitzs. I really can't articulate the difference, with the XREAS the truck seemed to stick to the road better. I've gone over bumps (off road) where I get more bounce with the Blitzs. The dynamics are just different.

The Blitz's were affordable and of good quality. Mind you my truck has 125k on it, so has loosened up. I replaced the Mich Cross-Terrains at around 60-70k w/ Revos and I think they are starting to get a bit worn.

The XREAS gave it a little more "sport" in the SUV... The Blitz's make it more "utility". I got the HD ones FWIW. I should have replaced my coil overs/springs, but I was hoping the 5th Gen would be more than it's turned out to be.

Honestly, I drove on the XREAS (even leaky) until almost 100k. I tend to drive like it's stolen, with a bit more care my XREAS would probably still be going strong.

 

[AlexandriaFJ]

Thanks for the info.

nighthawk, thanks for this little tidbit. I have a 6-speed manual transmission FJ Cruiser. I want to switch to a 4Runner Trail because of the added utility (4 doors, better visibility, better for kids, better sound system, KDSS, the list continues). I am looking at the 2011 Trail Edition, fully loaded. I had two big hang-ups though. The first is that I would be giving up my center locking limited-slip Torsen differential. I will tell you, that FJ Cruiser barely needs part time 4WD unless the situation gets extreme. This is why I bought the MT in the first place (it was the only way to get the center diff.). The full time system works so well. It ruins the MPG a bit, but it's worth it. Now you are telling me I can get this if I buy a Canadian model! The question now becomes how to get one?

My other beef with the Trail Edition is the carpeted floor. I am not sure what Toyota was thinking on this one. The FJ rubberized floor is awesome. People who want Trail models don't want carpet. The choice seems off. Perhaps it was a cost motivated choice.

If you have any information on how to buy Canadian from the USA, I am all ears.

There is another thing I am not getting about the 4Runner center differential. The listed MPGs are the same. How can they be the same with the added losses? The FJ Cruiser with the center diff. loses about 2 MPG over the regular part-time 4wd SYSTEM. I wonder if it is because I am comparing the MPGs of a Limited with the center diff. to a Trail without it. Maybe the Trail has more 4WD hardware and the weight difference evens out the MPGs? I don’t know, I think I am stretching here. If someone can explain this, I am listening.

Or you can look into seeing if you can buy a Canadian Trail edition. They all come with full time 4WD.

 

[SeattleMike]

AlexandriaFJ, I hate to break this to you but this thread is from 2009 and the Trail Edition they are referring to is no longer in production. Canada's TE is the same as our but without the Nav option.