Jared_Rouse_o6
New member
If I got an 3 inch ome suspension lift kit would I be able to pull a trailer just big enough for a few 4-wheelers? Or would my back end squat real bad? Just confused about how the different coils work....
Trailer with ome suspension lift?
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txbonds
Senior Member
Not sure how they compare to a 3rd gen, but I have a set of 5th gen 2015 trail edition factory rear coil springs laying here if they would work. Be happy to send them to you for cost of shipping if you figure out it would work. Regards.
Jared_Rouse_o6
New member
I got the 890 coils
OL0033
New member
You're probably going to have some sag. When I was doing research on what lift I wanted to go with I remember someone saying you couldn't put a pillow in the rear without 890s sagging (I'm sure it was a bit exaggerated haha) there are also others on here that have said 890s aren't the best under load. So the only way to really find out is to hook that trailer up and see how she sits. I personally just went with the 891s right off the bat cause I haul every now and then so didn't want to risk anything. Some will say the 891s ride harsh but I don't mind it, after all it's a BOF SUV not a Cadillac.
lhsoulrebel
New member
I tow a 4500lb boat and trailer with 890's and its fine. Do they squat a bit... Sure, only about 1.5-2"... Probably closer to 1.5. I'm not worried about how it looks towing, just the functionality. They work just fine.
KidVermicious
New member
Couple things, here - when you have too much tongue weight and you squat, your Bad Things Potential goes way up. First, you're changing the effective caster on the front wheels. You're also removing a lot of weight from the front wheels, which means you have much less threshold before the ABS kicks in. Finally, if you do have to panic brake, you'll lose even more braking threshold as the trailer pushes the rear of the truck down and the front of the truck even higher.
Trailer brakes help. But I wouldn't tow with the rear of the truck squatting perceptibly, it's just not safe. If you don't want to change coils in the rear, think about a set of air bags and/or a WDH.
Trailer brakes help. But I wouldn't tow with the rear of the truck squatting perceptibly, it's just not safe. If you don't want to change coils in the rear, think about a set of air bags and/or a WDH.
Konkordmusk
New member
This lolol
lhsoulrebel
New member
[MENTION=49649]KidVermicious[/MENTION]. Good points, and I agree that significant rear sag while towing just isn't safe... That said you load 2-3 adults in the rear seats and the rear sags 1-2" ... Pretty sure toyota designed the t4r with that in mind. So 1-2" of sag from towing should be just fine... As mentioned, proper tongue weight, distribution and trailer brakes all important when towing heavy loads.
KidVermicious
New member
Not to put you on the spot, but there's a big difference between 1-2" of sag, and 1-2" of sag with a 4000 pound trailer behind you. It's not just the tongue weight or the effect on the steering and braking while you're static, it's what happens when you jam the brakes. If that 4000 pounds pushing forward on your hitch isn't level with the hitch, it doesn't just push forward on the hitch, it also pushes down or up depending on the angle it started at. Your 1-2" inches of sag can become 5-6" inches of sag really quickly, and that has a huge effect on your steering and braking, and at the worse possible time.
I saw a guy with way too much tongue weight get passed by his trailer when he panic braked on the freeway. The weight of the trailer pushing down on the hitch removed so much weight/traction from his front tires that he got sideways at 40mph and ended up rolling several times, his trailer disconnected and rolled past him into traffic.
I can't say that's what would happen if you panic braked with your current setup, I think he didn't have trailer brakes for one. But the potential is there, and it only costs a couple hundred to remove it and get your trailer and truck level.
Anyway, not calling you out, it's your truck and you know it better than I do. Hope I provided some food for thought though.
vanion2
New member
^^^This. I've towed with a Rav4 and my 4R. If your trailer weighs more than 1000lbs then trailer brakes are a must, keeping your tongue weight below 500lbs is a must as that is what your limit on the 4R, and if you towing without a WDH then you are asking for trouble. As I said earlier this loads all the axles evenly so you braking and driving is safe and it will eliminate the sag you are concerned about.
the great him
Elite Member
so you are saying that you will need trailer brakes on any trailer other than a garden trailer here...
i regularly tow(and towed with my 3rd gen) a pickup bed converted to a trailer(still on frame and all) and it weighed it at around 900lbs with tool box. i never needed trailer brakes with it, and i had well over 1500lbs of wood in it, id venture to say closer to 2000lbs of wood. yeah trailer brakes at that point would have been nice, but if you are under 3000lbs you should not need trailer brakes. -not to mention they dont even make trailers with brakes that are under a 3000lb gvw. sure there are some but they are all plunger type systems like you see on boat trailer and or uhaul trailers.
as far as brakes are concerned you best bet is to do the TBU and replace all the old soft rubber lines with either new lines or steel braided lines.
as far as towing a trailer and squatting goes a couple of things come in to play. first off you need to get the right drop hitch to help level out the trailer, you do not want to be towing a trailer at this kinda of an angle - \ or / . you want it as level as possible ___ there are several reasons for this, one is its easier to even the load out and "center" or "balance" it, and the other reason is its much easier to safely secure a load that is level and not tilting or sloped. so first find the drop hitch that gets the trailer closest to level as possible. then from their you want to have the tongue weight at around 500lbs -its hard to be perfect, and if you are not used to towing then i dont expect you to get it right away, but the idea is to have more of the weight on the front half of the trailer, but not to much, you want like a 60/40 balance over the axle or fulcrum of the trailer. this way you allow the towing vehicle to help support some of the load and prevent the load from lifting the back of the vehicle up and causing instability.
take a look at this thread posted the other day in the 4th gen section; http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/194861-there-hd-rear-spring-available.html -same principles apply here -that guy loaded his trailer with too much tongue weight and in doing so unloaded is front tires to a dangerous level, where his steering and control ability's are potentially at risk. -this should give you a good idea of what i mean by leveling out the trailer.
lhsoulrebel
New member
Not to put you on the spot, but there's a big difference between 1-2" of sag, and 1-2" of sag with a 4000 pound trailer behind you. It's not just the tongue weight or the effect on the steering and braking while you're static, it's what happens when you jam the brakes. If that 4000 pounds pushing forward on your hitch isn't level with the hitch, it doesn't just push forward on the hitch, it also pushes down or up depending on the angle it started at. Your 1-2" inches of sag can become 5-6" inches of sag really quickly, and that has a huge effect on your steering and braking, and at the worse possible time.
I saw a guy with way too much tongue weight get passed by his trailer when he panic braked on the freeway. The weight of the trailer pushing down on the hitch removed so much weight/traction from his front tires that he got sideways at 40mph and ended up rolling several times, his trailer disconnected and rolled past him into traffic.
I can't say that's what would happen if you panic braked with your current setup, I think he didn't have trailer brakes for one. But the potential is there, and it only costs a couple hundred to remove it and get your trailer and truck level.
Anyway, not calling you out, it's your truck and you know it better than I do. Hope I provided some food for thought though.
This is why I love this forum... Great discussion from some well informed folks. Mostly agree with what you are saying... I guess my point is, even if you have the proper set up you make see over an inch more of sag with 890's and that's ok. If the trailer is level, tongue weight is less than 500 (which would be equivalent to two adults in the rear), must have trailer brakes with heavier trailers, and the t4r doesn't have more than 1/2-1" of neg rake you should be fine?? That sound reasonable? Agian proper set up is key. I have about 3/4" positive rake when unloaded with the 890's.... When towing I'm about level. I have a hitch drop to keep the trailer level... Tbu, tranny coolers etc... I guess my whole point it to say with a proper set up, you could tow with the 890's.
vanion2
New member
Sorry. What I should have pointed out is that is what Toyota recommended. You are more than welcome to do as you feel comfortable with.
I agree that 1000 lbs seems over cautious but trailer brakes just makes things a whole lot easier and with the towing I have done I won't do it any other way.
To the aspect of tongue weight I am completely in agreement.
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4Runner4TW
New member
I have the OME 906 in the rear of mine and I pulled a 4000lb trailer from AZ to WA and then back a few months later. Only sagged about 1 inch. Never have a problem stopping either. If I was going to tow regularly I would invest in trailer brakes but just pulling on the highway was fine.
I was very happy with the OME performance. They soak up the bumps real nice.
I was very happy with the OME performance. They soak up the bumps real nice.
slapdappy
Banned
air bags
what i think i know is:
10-15% of trailer weight on tongue. So 1000 lbs of trailer + load = 100-150 lbs tongue weight.
I have a 99 ltd. About a month ago I towed my 700+ lbs snowmobile + 300 lbs trailer from Denver to Steamboat, + my gear/luggage (100 lbs?), + me 180 lbs.
Returning to Denver I added my bro law, sister, niece and nephew (420 lbs) plus the rear cargo area literally packed to the ceiling with their gear/luggage (200 lbs?).
So, 600 lbs of passengers. 300 lbs gear in rear. 1000 lbs of trailer.
I have stock springs, bilstein 4600 shocks, and AirLift 1000 airbags. Truck handled everything just fine.
Normally I have them as deflated as possible. Before loading one pumps them full up to 35 psi. Load the truck, attach trailer, etc. Release psi from bags as needed to lower rear of truck to level desired. I think in this case I had 32 psi which had the rear slightly raised.
Last weekend I had 4 mt bikes hanging off the back on a trailer mounted bike rack. Thats probably 200 lbs on a lever hanging five feet off the rear. Pumped up the bags, nice level truck, easy drive through the Rockies back to Denver.
I recommend installing air bags.
They are @ $100, simple to install, simple to use, and should solve you rear sag issue.
what i think i know is:
10-15% of trailer weight on tongue. So 1000 lbs of trailer + load = 100-150 lbs tongue weight.
I have a 99 ltd. About a month ago I towed my 700+ lbs snowmobile + 300 lbs trailer from Denver to Steamboat, + my gear/luggage (100 lbs?), + me 180 lbs.
Returning to Denver I added my bro law, sister, niece and nephew (420 lbs) plus the rear cargo area literally packed to the ceiling with their gear/luggage (200 lbs?).
So, 600 lbs of passengers. 300 lbs gear in rear. 1000 lbs of trailer.
I have stock springs, bilstein 4600 shocks, and AirLift 1000 airbags. Truck handled everything just fine.
Normally I have them as deflated as possible. Before loading one pumps them full up to 35 psi. Load the truck, attach trailer, etc. Release psi from bags as needed to lower rear of truck to level desired. I think in this case I had 32 psi which had the rear slightly raised.
Last weekend I had 4 mt bikes hanging off the back on a trailer mounted bike rack. Thats probably 200 lbs on a lever hanging five feet off the rear. Pumped up the bags, nice level truck, easy drive through the Rockies back to Denver.
I recommend installing air bags.
They are @ $100, simple to install, simple to use, and should solve you rear sag issue.
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I need to chime in here--I have a 1999, SR5, V6 and I tow an aluminum trailer and golf cart. Trailer weighs 300 pounds and cart weighs 800, per manufacturers data sheets.
At 270K miles I am looking at a suspension rebuild--I am original owner. Currently it has an ARB front bumper but no winch. Also planning to go to Tundra brakes.
It is more an off pavement vehicle than an off road. Towing is in the blue Ridge mountains of VA and NC. So I want to maintain good road manners, et c. I would like a minimum lift (less than 3") but there are too many options and claims.
This thread is one of the best and most balanced that I have read; I welcome your input.
Thank you all---DED&DED
At 270K miles I am looking at a suspension rebuild--I am original owner. Currently it has an ARB front bumper but no winch. Also planning to go to Tundra brakes.
It is more an off pavement vehicle than an off road. Towing is in the blue Ridge mountains of VA and NC. So I want to maintain good road manners, et c. I would like a minimum lift (less than 3") but there are too many options and claims.
This thread is one of the best and most balanced that I have read; I welcome your input.
Thank you all---DED&DED
KidVermicious
New member
[MENTION=94063]slapdappy[/MENTION], which airbags are you using? Do you have them tied together or are they plumbed individually?
slapdappy
Banned
the AirLift 1000.
individually plumbed.
happen to be holes on underside of my bumper that are tailor made for the valves.
brother recently got some for towing a 27' boat with his Sequoia. No sure if his are AirLift or Firestone.
Airlift says to keep at least 5 psi minimum at all times. I run less as daily driver.
Interesting thing I've learned is how they work. I assumed an air bag inflates and supports the weight of the vehicle, thus relieving the springs of the burden. I've realized pumping up the air bags causes them to expand outward inside the spring coil, kind of bulging a bit between the coils. This inhibits the ability of the coil to compress. Basically, it's friction. The more psi, the more resistance the coils need to overcome to compress. Quite clever, imho. Seems to have the same effect as stiffer springs.
