Tranny siezed?

[TABrecke]

Hey all, new to the forum but have been lurking for a couple of months as problems have arisen with my 1996 Runner Limited 3.4 with 295,000 miles.

Bought the car a couple of months ago with plans on fixing it up and using it as a third car to keep at a lake house. When I bought it, it has clear cosmetic imperfections that I planned to have fixed. However, a few mechanical problems have come up that have taken priority and been fixed. But now I have an issue that two shops have given a differing diagnosis. Here's whats happening...

When driving the truck at slow speeds and coming to a slow stop or rolling in traffic, and lightly applying the brakes, a loud clanking noise comes from under the truck, which shakes the hole car and it will come to a halt. Sometimes the wheels lock up completely. Again this only happens at very slow speeds, less than 5mph. Also, it only happens after the car has been driven for a little. Say, if I'm running 4 errands, the issue won't occur until I've been driving all day.

It's hard to describe the feeling and sound but its a skidding/clanking/clunking/shuttering coming from under rhe car. The noise is loud. Sometimes when I go to accelerate after it happens, the engine revs for a second, the clank sound happens and the car goes into drive. And lastly, after it happens and the car starts rolling again, it feels as if there is resistence to its forward momentum, without the brakes being applied. This happened today and it also felt as if there was some swaying or leaning to the left front side of car. That did go away.

Hopefully I described the problem well enough. Like I said, two shops have looked at it. The first place specialized in trans and they said no tranny issue, need a front brake rebuild, and I was grinding metal on metal. Well I knew that wasnt true because first thing I did when this started was check the calipers and pads, both fine. I replaced pads myself anyway. They also could not get the car to do what I just described, probably because it needs to be driven awhile for it to happen. The other shop said check trans at a trans service shop, they would not touch it bec of high miles.


So...has anyone experienced this or have a clue what I'm trying to describe? I'm convinced its a trans problem, the sound is coming from under the car. Also, its a mess under the car...see pics. Something is leaking badly it appears. Btw, trans fluid is gross looking. Thanks in advance!

 

[Myrunr2010]

Your post doesn't say, but I assume you are talking about an automatic transmission? I had an old f150 that had similar issues to what you are describing. I checked the trans fluid and it was all sorts of nasty, I did a drain and refil several times and put some Lucas transmission fix stuff it in. It helped some but ultimately the damage was already done. Might be worth a shot to do a drain and refil if it looks nasty or perhaps take it somewhere and have it flushed.

 

[TABrecke]

Your post doesn't say, but I assume you are talking about an automatic transmission? I had an old f150 that had similar issues to what you are describing. I checked the trans fluid and it was all sorts of nasty, I did a drain and refil several times and put some Lucas transmission fix stuff it in. It helped some but ultimately the damage was already done. Might be worth a shot to do a drain and refil if it looks nasty or perhaps take it somewhere and have it flushed.

Thanks for the reply...Yes, it's auto.

 

[Morphyne]

Thanks for the reply...Yes, it's auto.

If this was my ride, first thing I would do is do a fluid exchange on the transmission fluid and see how that does. if it still is acting weird, do a flush and fill but this time put some tranny additive in it.

 

[T4R2014]

Does the diff spin freely?

 

[Toy2play]

Hey all, new to the forum but have been lurking for a couple of months as problems have arisen with my 1996 Runner Limited 3.4 with 295,000 miles.

Bought the car a couple of months ago with plans on fixing it up and using it as a third car to keep at a lake house. When I bought it, it has clear cosmetic imperfections that I planned to have fixed. However, a few mechanical problems have come up that have taken priority and been fixed. But now I have an issue that two shops have given a differing diagnosis. Here's whats happening...

When driving the truck at slow speeds and coming to a slow stop or rolling in traffic, and lightly applying the brakes, a loud clanking noise comes from under the truck, which shakes the hole car and it will come to a halt. Sometimes the wheels lock up completely. Again this only happens at very slow speeds, less than 5mph. Also, it only happens after the car has been driven for a little. Say, if I'm running 4 errands, the issue won't occur until I've been driving all day.

It's hard to describe the feeling and sound but its a skidding/clanking/clunking/shuttering coming from under rhe car. The noise is loud. Sometimes when I go to accelerate after it happens, the engine revs for a second, the clank sound happens and the car goes into drive. And lastly, after it happens and the car starts rolling again, it feels as if there is resistence to its forward momentum, without the brakes being applied. This happened today and it also felt as if there was some swaying or leaning to the left front side of car. That did go away.

Hopefully I described the problem well enough. Like I said, two shops have looked at it. The first place specialized in trans and they said no tranny issue, need a front brake rebuild, and I was grinding metal on metal. Well I knew that wasnt true because first thing I did when this started was check the calipers and pads, both fine. I replaced pads myself anyway. They also could not get the car to do what I just described, probably because it needs to be driven awhile for it to happen. The other shop said check trans at a trans service shop, they would not touch it bec of high miles.


So...has anyone experienced this or have a clue what I'm trying to describe? I'm convinced its a trans problem, the sound is coming from under the car. Also, its a mess under the car...see pics. Something is leaking badly it appears. Btw, trans fluid is gross looking. Thanks in advance!

Are you sure it is coming from the tranny? What you said reminds me of when my rear axle seal leaked and my brake shoes were soaked in gear oil. Everything would act normal for a little while, then at low speeds the engine would rev and I would get a thud noise and shuttering sort of feel that I thought was the tranny. Basically what was happening, after a bit of driving the brake shoes would swell up and basically feel like the brakes were applied. I would only feel it at low speeds and when I was stopped, trying to get going again. High speeds everything seemed fine. You could have one side locked up which is causing it to sway to one side.

Easy way to check is to pull the rear drums off and inspect if there is any oil. These 4runners are known to have leaky seals in the rear axle.

 

[TABrecke]

Are you sure it is coming from the tranny? What you said reminds me of when my rear axle seal leaked and my brake shoes were soaked in gear oil. Everything would act normal for a little while, then at low speeds the engine would rev and I would get a thud noise and shuttering sort of feel that I thought was the tranny. Basically what was happening, after a bit of driving the brake shoes would swell up and basically feel like the brakes were applied. I would only feel it at low speeds and when I was stopped, trying to get going again. High speeds everything seemed fine. You could have one side locked up which is causing it to sway to one side.

Easy way to check is to pull the rear drums off and inspect if there is any oil. These 4runners are known to have leaky seals in the rear axle.

I know for a fact the rear axle seal is leaking on the drums, that was diagnosed last week. Maybe start with the seal repair and rear brakes?

 

[TABrecke]

If this was my ride, first thing I would do is do a fluid exchange on the transmission fluid and see how that does. if it still is acting weird, do a flush and fill but this time put some tranny additive in it.

Is there any risk to doing the exchange at such a high mileage?

 

[Myrunr2010]

Is there any risk to doing the exchange at such a high mileage?

There are always stories out there of "I changed my trans fluid and it ruined my transmission!" I think the big concern is that new fluid has fresh detergents in it that could break some crud loose and end up plugging flow holes, or something along those lines. That being said, I did my old f150 and my wife's protege5, both over 200,000 miles, after it hadnt been changed in a very long time (if ever), and I didn't experience any issues. I think if a fluid change "breaks" your transmission you probably had a bigger underlying issue that wasn't noticed before.

 

[Toy2play]

I know for a fact the rear axle seal is leaking on the drums, that was diagnosed last week. Maybe start with the seal repair and rear brakes?

This actually might be your problem. I would bet money on it. Yes I would start with this, quite dangerous if you are having braking issues. Does it ever happen in reverse? For me it did not.

There are always stories out there of "I changed my trans fluid and it ruined my transmission!" I think the big concern is that new fluid has fresh detergents in it that could break some crud loose and end up plugging flow holes, or something along those lines. That being said, I did my old f150 and my wife's protege5, both over 200,000 miles, after it hadnt been changed in a very long time (if ever), and I didn't experience any issues. I think if a fluid change "breaks" your transmission you probably had a bigger underlying issue that wasn't noticed before.

I would have to disagree. There is a warning for a reason, I have experienced this first hand. Changed the transmission fuild in my dad's Camry which came out black. It had 240k miles on it and I doubt it was ever changed. No slipping or anything wrong with the tranny before, and then did a drain and fill twice and started slipping within a few days. The level was checked and had the proper amount. Tried putting in the lucus no slip stuff which helped a little bit. The tranny was never the same after that. Finally sold it for basically junk. One good thing came out of it, he bought a 4runner.

I would have thought the same thing, but when it happens to you personally, you sing a different tune. I am careful to give any advice on that situation because it happened to me. I'm not saying it will happen, but just saying there is a chance.

 

[Myrunr2010]

I would have to disagree. There is a warning for a reason, I have experienced this first hand. Changed the transmission fuild in my dad's Camry which came out black. It had 240k miles on it and I doubt it was ever changed. No slipping or anything wrong with the tranny before, and then did a drain and fill twice and started slipping within a few days. The level was checked and had the proper amount. Tried putting in the lucus no slip stuff which helped a little bit. The tranny was never the same after that. Finally sold it for basically junk. One good thing came out of it, he bought a 4runner.

Example. Always a story of "I changed my transmission fluid and it broke my transmission". I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely nothing wrong with your transmission that was running on the original oil after 240k and that it was the new fluids that messed it up. Opinion/theory vs. lived experience though.

Moral of the story....drive a manual! : p

 

[alumarine]

Check fluid level in rear diff. If it's empty from the leak then maybe it's shot as well.
If a rear seal is leaking you will have to fix it and replace the pads on that side.

Are you by any chance driving it in 4WD on pavement?

 

[TABrecke]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to repair seal and rear brakes. I will report back with the outcome.

 

[alumarine]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to repair seal and rear brakes. I will report back with the outcome.

Are you using 4WD on pavement?

 

[TABrecke]

Check fluid level in rear diff. If it's empty from the leak then maybe it's shot as well.
If a rear seal is leaking you will have to fix it and replace the pads on that side.

Are you by any chance driving it in 4WD on pavement?

Right, I'll be checking all that and replacing brakes, drum, shoes on each side. Figure I'll just get that all done while I'm down there.

And no, I do not use the 4WD on pavement. I have never used it at all. Only had the car a few months and was supposed to be the summer car at the lake house, but not comfortable putting kids in it until this issue is resolved.

 

[Toy2play]

Example. Always a story of "I changed my transmission fluid and it broke my transmission". I find it hard to believe that there was absolutely nothing wrong with your transmission that was running on the original oil after 240k and that it was the new fluids that messed it up. Opinion/theory vs. lived experience though.

Moral of the story....drive a manual! : p

Perhaps something eventually would of happened to the tranny, but in no way was it slipping or having any issues shifting before the change. I regularly went in his vehicle to the store when he would visit out of town. It goes to show how tough these Toyota's are built. I mean it was blacker than black. For a second, I thought I was draining the engine oil. What else do you blame it on when the only thing we did was drain and fill, literally that is it. Didn't slip before, then slipped afterwards. To each their own.

Yes a manual would definitely curb this problem. Too bad I'm lazy and perfer an auto when off-roading.