Transmission fluid change, Good or bad idea for 2010 Sr5 I want to take to 250K miles

[83Mule]

Why would you need to check the dipstick? It's a sealed system, so unless there is a leak, the fluid level will not change.

Keeps people from pouring random crap in a bottle they find at autozone into the very robust and reliable A750F.
Prevents people overfilling their engine oil while checking their trans dipstick.
Trans fluid color and smell are not really very good indicators of modern synthetic oil, so it keeps the old school, change oil every 3000 mile, types from messing with it.

The radiator is a sealed system.......I still want a cap. Those of us who have experience working on vehicles don't put fluids in the wrong holes! You can lose fluid to the transfer case, radiator or over time to vaporization out the vent so rather than lay under the truck at exactly 103 degrees etc. to see if it drips out, I like the time honored ''graduated stick'' method just fine! :shrug:

 

[mountainair26]

Wow, thanks for all the input everybody. Really appreciate it, I'm new on the forum. I like working on my vehicles whenever I can and always changes the coolant, spark plugs, and such myself. But I'm currently really busy in graduate school, so I tend to buy my own oil and have professionals do the actual change since I don't have the time or the luxury at the moment to get in there and do it myself.
That being the case, what sorts of questions should I ask the transmission guy to see if he understands the correct process? I've heard of the dealership process harming the transmissions on these models before. There's opinions all over the place from never change the fluid ever, to flush it, to replace it 2qts at a time etc...
They guy I'm thinking of using spoke to me for a while on the phone and seems to be genuine, knowledgeable, and old school, which I like. He went over lots of reasons not to do it, and how it could cause possible problems. But said it's a good idea if it doesn't have any issues already, so he'd give it a good inspection and then go ahead if it looked alright. It doesn't have any issues while I've driven it for the past 10kmiles or so. Any idea if all mechanics use that dealership process or what I should ask him beforehand? That process in the link would normally be doable for me, but at this point I'm willing to pay someone else for the time and knowledge if the job turns out right, instead of me using a whole weekend or more while he can do it in about a day. $160 seems more than reasonable compared to others if he knows what he's talking about. Its a transmission specific shop, not a Toyota specific one though, but he did seem very familiar with the model and the transmission.

 

[SATSTRAIL]

Just follow the manufacturers interval guideline for replacing the transmission fluid as posted in your owners manual. This can be done by pulling the drain plug on the pan and refilling, letting it run for a few moments. Repeat the process a few times and on the final pass bring the fluid level to its proper point. No need for a machine. I am an Infiniti Tech at a dealership and this is the procedure I use for all of the transmission flush services that I do (similar procedure is involved). I don’t bother with the machine because it’s more work and hassle than what it’s worth and I still get the same results doing the several drain and fill steps. It is in reality a fluid exchange not a flush. The term flush is deceptive and adds no additional benefit. You are simply exchanging/swapping out the old fluid for new.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

Just follow the manufacturers interval guideline for replacing the transmission fluid as posted in your owners manual. This can be done by pulling the drain plug on the pan and refilling, letting it run for a few moments. Repeat the process a few times and on the final pass bring the fluid level to its proper point. No need for a machine.

Otherwise known as a "rotation drain". I've used this method for years on vehicles that have no drain plug on the converter and these days that would be the vast majority of them.

 

[Schargedtaco]

Wow, thanks for all the input everybody. Really appreciate it, I'm new on the forum. I like working on my vehicles whenever I can and always changes the coolant, spark plugs, and such myself. But I'm currently really busy in graduate school, so I tend to buy my own oil and have professionals do the actual change since I don't have the time or the luxury at the moment to get in there and do it myself.
That being the case, what sorts of questions should I ask the transmission guy to see if he understands the correct process? I've heard of the dealership process harming the transmissions on these models before. There's opinions all over the place from never change the fluid ever, to flush it, to replace it 2qts at a time etc...
They guy I'm thinking of using spoke to me for a while on the phone and seems to be genuine, knowledgeable, and old school, which I like. He went over lots of reasons not to do it, and how it could cause possible problems. But said it's a good idea if it doesn't have any issues already, so he'd give it a good inspection and then go ahead if it looked alright. It doesn't have any issues while I've driven it for the past 10kmiles or so. Any idea if all mechanics use that dealership process or what I should ask him beforehand? That process in the link would normally be doable for me, but at this point I'm willing to pay someone else for the time and knowledge if the job turns out right, instead of me using a whole weekend or more while he can do it in about a day. $160 seems more than reasonable compared to others if he knows what he's talking about. Its a transmission specific shop, not a Toyota specific one though, but he did seem very familiar with the model and the transmission.

Ok 1st off if your really asking us what kind of questions need to be asked to your tranny guy so he doesn’t mess up your tranny your at the wrong shop and are playing Russian rullet with your 4runner. Years back when I didn’t know any better I went to a mom and pop tranny auto shop with a practically brand new lifted Chevy. Shortly after my tranny started slipping. Turns out they didn’t put correct filter in and fluid type was different. I’ve heard the horse stories on flushing. What I hate about my Acura dealers/cars is they only drop pan. Have to pay for 4 services to get all old fluid out. My Toyota’s o psi 140.00 at Toyota they do a fluid exchange. My last two bought with 127k fluid looked brown on 3rd gens. They replaced all of it. Sold the trucks with about 250k and the fluid still looked good and trannies bulletproof. Sure there’s always that 1 car out of 300 that has been severely neglected that problems arose after a flush but that truck wasn’t going to prob last another 100k anyway. If your avoiding the dealer with properly trained techs who can do your flush with there eyes closed and obiviously if everyone was coming back with tranny issues after there service they wouldn’t be in business long. I’d take that risk over your old school mechanic who probably won’t even put in the correct fluid even if he does do the job correctly. Your not going to save much money n the end. Just make sure you’ve got about 4K stashed away if it goes south.

 

[Wild_Bill_Kelso]

...so it keeps the old school, change oil every 3000 mile, types from messing with it.

Actually no - we'll do the research, buy the proper equipment, and change the fluid to spec. The new Colorado (my last truck) uses the same procedure as the Toyota more or less. It was fairly easy once you do it the first time.

Regarding trannies in general, if I regularly tow, I change it every two years including the filter to ensure tranny survivability. Heat kills..... I'll install an auxillary trans cooler inline with the factory cooler as well.

 

[mountainair26]

Considering I'm not really having any symptoms, I just want to do it for maintenance, how crucial is dropping the pan? After I do the first round of the flush and get ~2qts or however much out, will I be able to look at it and judge based on how dirty or burnt up it looks to see if the pan needs to be dropped and cleaned? Or just suck it up and do it? I dont have jack stands anymore unfortunately and that would make the process alot more difficult if it's not necessary.

 

[Lester Lugnut]

The only way to know how dirty it is inside the pan is to pull it. There may be magnets in the bottom that will have the lion's share of particles, if so equipped. I have not pulled my 4R pan yet.

First time I drained my 4R transmission pan I got 3 qts. out; then a 4th by elevating the front as high as it would go. I may have mentioned this further up in the thread already.

Be sure to check the fluid level using procedure(s) in the FSM. I like the small paper clip method. It's cheap and documented in the FSM.

Lots of yacks about this at tacomaworld.com in the 2nd Gen forum. Same transmission as 5th Gen 4Rs.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/how-to-drain-refill-automatic-transmission.63851/

 

[83Mule]

I would drop the pan for the ability to put a fresh filter in the system, now that all the flashing, sealant and disc ''swarf'' have broken loose and been trapped in the filter. Also, you can clean the pan and magnet so the new fluid will stay new longer than the original fluid did.

 

[Jeffy]

Considering I'm not really having any symptoms, I just want to do it for maintenance, how crucial is dropping the pan? After I do the first round of the flush and get ~2qts or however much out, will I be able to look at it and judge based on how dirty or burnt up it looks to see if the pan needs to be dropped and cleaned? Or just suck it up and do it? I dont have jack stands anymore unfortunately and that would make the process alot more difficult if it's not necessary.

I wouldn't consider it "crucial" by any means. It would be helpful, but not necessary. However if you DO decide to drop it, do yourself a favor and use a torque wrench when putting it back on. I stripped out 3 separate bolts trying to do it "by feel" because I was in a hurry and didn't have a torque wrench handy. That wasn't fun.

 

[Rmack]

Considering I'm not really having any symptoms, I just want to do it for maintenance, how crucial is dropping the pan? After I do the first round of the flush and get ~2qts or however much out, will I be able to look at it and judge based on how dirty or burnt up it looks to see if the pan needs to be dropped and cleaned? Or just suck it up and do it? I dont have jack stands anymore unfortunately and that would make the process alot more difficult if it's not necessary.

Dropping the pan is a good idea at least once after break in. I did mine at 20k and there was enough material on the magnets to make me feel it was worth the effort. I cleaned everything real good, installed a new screen and gasket, and put it all back together.

The only way to know how dirty it is inside the pan is to pull it. There may be magnets in the bottom that will have the lion's share of particles, if so equipped. I have not pulled my 4R pan yet]

Yes there are magnets in the bottom of the pan.

I would drop the pan for the ability to put a fresh filter in the system, now that all the flashing, sealant and disc ''swarf'' have broken loose and been trapped in the filter. Also, you can clean the pan and magnet so the new fluid will stay new longer than the original fluid did.

There is no filter, just a screen. It is only there to stop larger particles, unlike filters in my GM trucks.

 

[83Mule]

The screen is the filter.....but the point is to get the break - in junk out and get a fresh one in as things will have settled in and will produce less junk going forward.

 

[mountainair26]

I understand the reasoning for going with OEM fluid of course, but there seems to be some posts on here and bobistheoilguy claiming benefits of Amsoil ATF instead. Since they generally make great synth fluids, and the claims of gained mpg and other benefits seem legit, does anyone have any strong reasoning/opinions on performing this fluid swap procedure with Amsoil sig series or another reputable Amsoil ATF that's compattable with Toyota WS? I'm probobly only going to do this once over the remaining life of the vehicle (but possibly in 1 to 3 stages of draining, 3-4 qts at a time), since it's a daily driver 2wd. Anyone see a problem with mixing in Amsoil with whatever is in there now? (presumably factory ATF). If I'm gonna do it once, I figure why not use the best synth fluid possible as logn as it doesn't pose any undue risks. Thoughts on the replacing the fluid in stages method with Amsoil instead of OEM? Thanks!

 

[Lester Lugnut]

Thoughts on the replacing the fluid in stages method with Amsoil instead of OEM? Thanks!

Known in some circle as a rotation drain.

I've used this approach on every car I've owned that did not have a drain plug on the torque converter and that would be all but one. Purchased new, I do two of these every 30K. A man who posts at tacomaworld.com and who has rebuilt over 4000 trannies in his life(tranny shop owner) gave this method his blessing. This is also accompanied by removing and cleaning the pan and washing out the screen filter. If replacing the screen filter is your preference, then do so. Ignore people who tell you that you are wasting time/money. How you maintain your vehicle is none of their business.

Now as to the mixing of unlike tranny fluids, I'll throw in my 2 cents. I have a 2006 Toyota Avalon that also called for Toyota's WS ATF fluid. I used Toyota WS up through about 160K miles; then switched to Walmarts Dex-VI which carries a WS rating on the bottle. I did not do a full flush, but rather 3 rotation drains. 65K later, all is well. Wally Worlds version of WS shifts this cars tranny as smooth as Toyota's WS. If there were a problem with it, I would have experienced it by now, especially since the tranny had miles on it when I switched out ATF brands.


So...I'd bet a buck your Amsoil plan will fly just fine. There are countless people at tacomaworld.com who have either flushed or done rotation drains using fluid other than Toyota's WS w/o failure. 2nd Gen Tacoma and 5th Gen 4R use the same tranny. A750E-2WD A750F-4WD.

 

[1jzgte]

2015 Camry with 60k:
I did a flush because my 4th gear was slipping from 3rd to 4th or 5th to 4th. It basically couldn't get into gear until the rpms dropped about 500rpm. I thought there's no friggin way at 60K my fluid was already bad, especially this "lifetime" ws fluid. I thought for sure my transmission clutches were just worn to shit.

Decided to try a trans flush anway with Valvoline Maxlife from walmart. bought 2 gallons and had 1 quart of old WS fluid that i had stored away. I flushed from the transmission cooler 2 quarts at a time. Filled up w/ 2 quarts of fresh maxlife. Repeated the process until I got flushed out the max capacity amount as per the owners manual. The fluid coming out was still a light reddish purple instead of the bright candy apple red from the bottle. Debated whether I wanted to spend another 18 dollars to achieve a more thorough flush. I settled with the purplish red as I had no idea whether this would fix my 4th gear slip. It was definitely better than what originally came out, a super dark blackish purple however without any burnt smell.

I added the extra quart of Toyota WS because I had it laying around. I didn't want to deal w/ repeating the process of adding more fluid after I had things leveled out and had the wheels back on. So i basically overfilled it by ALOT.

I used a bubble leveler on the bottom of the transmission pan and leveled out the rear and front of the vehicle. Adjusted it w/ a jumper pin on OBD plug. This process was not as bad as I imagined it to be. That extra quart nearly came out an extra quart.

Torqued things down, striped my ****in 6mm drain hex bolt under the pan. Don't know if it was my fault or not. I read it happens if the hex key isnt inserted all the way? So far its not backing out or leaking puddles in my garage. I'll JB weld a bolt head to it and use that instead. It was only 30lbs/ft on my camry anyway.


Test drove afterwards, and 4th gear engagement was solid. No more slipping from 3rd or 5th. I could not replicate the issue! I can feel the gears engaging. Some might consider this rough shifting but im just glad its grabbing.

My conclusion, dont wait til 100k to change your fluid. Don't get too caught up in brands as long as its WS approved or recommended. It's basically a low velocity ATF.

At around 100k i plan on doing a more thorough flush w/ an extra gallon to try to acheive a cherry red but for now i'm totally happy. My 4runner is at 75K and that's next on my list.

My thoughts on the original factory fill: Break in materials contaminate the fluids heavily: The clutches, the wear metals. This leads me to believe that the fluid was so slippery from all the floaties, if you will that 4th gear couldn't bite down.

Why was it only 4th gear? I have no friggin idea. Maybe the RPMs going into that gear from 5th to 4th was too high? But what about 3rd to 4th? Maybe the ratio was too far apart from 3rd to 4th?

Thanks for listening

 

[85GT-79FJ40]

I did 2 "spill and fill" changes on my 05 tacoma V6 (same transmission) using Valvoline maxlife after doing it once before with WS. I did it every 25k miles after buying the truck with 116k and sold it at 190k. No issues ever. I'm going to do my 2011 once it warms up and it has 41k on it and I know it's never been touched. I have no issues but I consider this preventative maintenance.

 

[arehman11]

2015 Camry with 60k:
I did a flush because my 4th gear was slipping from 3rd to 4th or 5th to 4th. It basically couldn't get into gear until the rpms dropped about 500rpm. I thought there's no friggin way at 60K my fluid was already bad, especially this "lifetime" ws fluid. I thought for sure my transmission clutches were just worn to shit.

Decided to try a trans flush anway with Valvoline Maxlife from walmart. bought 2 gallons and had 1 quart of old WS fluid that i had stored away. I flushed from the transmission cooler 2 quarts at a time. Filled up w/ 2 quarts of fresh maxlife. Repeated the process until I got flushed out the max capacity amount as per the owners manual. The fluid coming out was still a light reddish purple instead of the bright candy apple red from the bottle. Debated whether I wanted to spend another 18 dollars to achieve a more thorough flush. I settled with the purplish red as I had no idea whether this would fix my 4th gear slip. It was definitely better than what originally came out, a super dark blackish purple however without any burnt smell.

I added the extra quart of Toyota WS because I had it laying around. I didn't want to deal w/ repeating the process of adding more fluid after I had things leveled out and had the wheels back on. So i basically overfilled it by ALOT.

I used a bubble leveler on the bottom of the transmission pan and leveled out the rear and front of the vehicle. Adjusted it w/ a jumper pin on OBD plug. This process was not as bad as I imagined it to be. That extra quart nearly came out an extra quart.

Torqued things down, striped my ****in 6mm drain hex bolt under the pan. Don't know if it was my fault or not. I read it happens if the hex key isnt inserted all the way? So far its not backing out or leaking puddles in my garage. I'll JB weld a bolt head to it and use that instead. It was only 30lbs/ft on my camry anyway.


Test drove afterwards, and 4th gear engagement was solid. No more slipping from 3rd or 5th. I could not replicate the issue! I can feel the gears engaging. Some might consider this rough shifting but im just glad its grabbing.

My conclusion, dont wait til 100k to change your fluid. Don't get too caught up in brands as long as its WS approved or recommended. It's basically a low velocity ATF.

At around 100k i plan on doing a more thorough flush w/ an extra gallon to try to acheive a cherry red but for now i'm totally happy. My 4runner is at 75K and that's next on my list.

My thoughts on the original factory fill: Break in materials contaminate the fluids heavily: The clutches, the wear metals. This leads me to believe that the fluid was so slippery from all the floaties, if you will that 4th gear couldn't bite down.

Why was it only 4th gear? I have no friggin idea. Maybe the RPMs going into that gear from 5th to 4th was too high? But what about 3rd to 4th? Maybe the ratio was too far apart from 3rd to 4th?

Thanks for listening

FYI Camry's have a TSB out there for issues with slipping. The torque converter will be replaced. My dad just had this done on his 2013. Has nothing to do with waiting for mileage, just a defective part.

 

[catrains]

IMO I am using Toyota tranny fluid .. I will not change the OEM and mix with another.
cost is the same also . I can pick it up at dealership order it in advance .toyota fluid has no issues very good .
no other costs...

I did dump GM dexron III on my GM vehicles back in 1999.. reason is GM OEM spec was defective . report stated GM dexron III turns to acid in 20K miles. so I used mobil synthetic tranny fluid dex/mercon spec..

Toyota fluids have odd ball additives in them ..
Transfer case fluid same deal not gonna use non OEM in it..

good luck.

 

[t6pilot]

I’am new to 4runners but not Toyota’s having 2 FJ Cruisers before
On each FJ I had dealer change the fluid each 50000 miles, not sure of the method used. Mechanic said it was a smart move and would save me money in the long run

Jim

 

[1jzgte]

I did 2 "spill and fill" changes on my 05 tacoma V6 (same transmission) using Valvoline maxlife after doing it once before with WS. I did it every 25k miles after buying the truck with 116k and sold it at 190k. No issues ever. I'm going to do my 2011 once it warms up and it has 41k on it and I know it's never been touched. I have no issues but I consider this preventative maintenance.

what color was the fluid each time you drained? Did it gradually maintain closer color to bright red?