Transmission problem;

[aretk]

Hello All,

(I have a 145K '99-6cly Limited) I am having some issues with my Transmission; Long story short, I had Antifreeze seep into the trans through the coolant lines (Radiator rusted through at the lines) I had the Radiator replaced and had a full flush on the Transmission. Prior to the flush, the transmission was bucking and acting very erratic. I have had some success with the flush but still after long distance driving at higher speeds, reverse gives me some hesitations and occassionally it feels like the transmission is slipping when I accelerate from a stop. I am wondering if there is still some antifreeze in the transmission? If another flush may fix it or do I need to do something else? I dont have the time to complete the fixes myself so I have to have shop do it, I am from Trenton,NJ area does anyone have recommended shops to have it checked out?

Thank you in advance for the time.

 

[nc211]

A couple of thoughts: 1. When you had the transmission fluid flushed, are you sure they use toyota oem fluid, and not some off-the-shelf stuff that comes in those big ole' barrels? You want toyota oem fluid in there only. 2. Solinoids in the transmission: you mention your radiator rusted and let some fluid escape into your lines transmission lines. I would assume some rust particles probably got in there too, and could of possibly dirtied up the some of the solenoids. But, 3: your transmission filter! I assume they thuroughly cleaned the filter within your transmission? They did drop the pan when they flushed the fluids, right? If not, then it's quite possible, and very likely, that your transmission filter is all gunked up and actually restricting the flow of your fluid, which would cause a slipping sensation, hard shifts, and make your transmission work harder (hotter).

 

[aretk]

transmission issue

Thank you nc211,

Transmission issue was completed at a Toyota Dealer, I would hope they followed protcol and provided the best service available and flush the system completely. (at least I paid for the best service available) I had asked them to replace filter but they didnt feel it was necessary. Regarding the Solenoids, they didnt mention anything about those being impacted, are these something than can be replaced without dropping the Transmission?

Thank you very much for your reply.

 

[nc211]

They probably didn't replace the filter because they probably didn't want to mess with having to drop the pan to get to it, which is typical laziness in my opinion. Even at those miles, a filter is probably due anyway, regardless of the added contaminants from the radiator. Solenoids can usually be accessed via the pan. When looking under your car, do you see the transmission pan, usually about a foot or so behind the engine, right under where your shift lever it in the car? There should also be a drain plug there too. When someone removes that pan, there are usually a series of cylinder looking solenoids, kind of like a roll of quarters. They regulate comands and shift patterns for the transmission, and can get gummed up over time, causing delayed and rough shifting. It happens quite a lot on the older LS400s around the miles you've got. It's usually the #2 solenoid in the LS that gets dirty and causes gear-holds and rough engagements. Usually a few "drain n' fills" of the transmission fluid will clear it up, as the tranny fluid acts as a cleaner as well. A drain n' fill is simply that...you drain the pan and fill what you drained with new fluid via the dipstick in the engine bay.

But, to answer you question, I would certainly take the car back to Toyota and tell them it's not fixed. Since you've already got the bill for the service, since they didn't do it right, you should be able to continue the repair under that same bill. I'd almost insist on a new filter! They'll probaby say something along the line of "we back flush the fluids which cleans the filter". Which is fine for typical dirty fluid. But if you've actually got rust particles in there, that's a bit extreme.

 

[aretk]

nc211,

thank you so much for the excellent advice. I will be on the horn with the dealer tomorrow to schedule a service to redo the flush and also suggest the solenoid issues. You mentioned LS400, does that have the same Transmission my 99 Limited 4Runner has?

Thank you for all the information.

 

[nc211]

I doubt it's the same transmission, but certainly the same DNA (Toyota). What I've found over the years of being active on the Lexus forum and now this one, is that many of the same little querks of the Lexus brand also exist in the Toyota brand, and vice-versa. Like the dreaded clunk in the driveshaft that haunts the 4runner and GX470. The stinky exhaust, the drive-by-wire hestiation issues, similiar transmisison symptoms when the fluid is either the wrong kind or worn out, thumps of the engine at start-up that indicated a worn engine mount in the Lexus brand, etc... In my opinion, there is a flat base for all Toyota products that all the cars are built from, then just tweeked for thier design characteristics. It's similiar to the good ole' days of the Mercedes cars v. the american cars in terms of platforms. MB used the same platform across several different models, and the americans used specific platforms for specific models...(or vice versa, I can't remember). Eitherway, MB clearly had it right back then, before Chrystler got their hands on them, tried to lower their manufacturing costs by implementing the american construction process...and..well...we all know what happened from there...

 

[aretk]

transmission issue

Nc211,

Update; I had the transmission looked at again...they just looked at the color of the fluid. I was advised it is dark again after 3 months of flushing and changing it. The recommended to remove and replace the transmission, they dont feel flushing the system would do me any good. Also they indicated that there is no filter in this transmission, it is just a screen. I am going to drop the pan over the weekend to see what is up, is there any tricks to dropping the pan?

I also just got a Check engine light which turns out to be the Air/Fuel sensor, it looks like a job in a half, the part alone cost over $250 and they were going to charge me $150 to put it in...I am going to attempt to do it myself on this one to...are there any tricks to this part?

Thank you for your time.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Artk, I have never seen an A/F ratio sensor that was a huge job. I can't speak to the '99 3.4L though. I would consider shopping for the A/F ratio sensor though. This is from RockAuto.com:
The 1st $ is cost, 2nd=core and 3rd is total $$$
AIRTEX Part # 5S2734 $109.79 $0.00 $109.79

A-1 CARDONE Part # 7450009 {[Mass Airflow Sensor] Remanufactured.} $88.79 $50.00 $138.79

AIRTEX Part # 5S2732 $163.79 $0.00 $163.79

ACDELCO Part # 2133355 {#19112470}
SENSOR,MASS AIRFLOW(Remanufactured)
$302.79 $28.80 $331.59


As far as the trans is concerned you're on the right track, make sure you use the correct fluid type. Good luck!
:cheers:

 

[nc211]

Man, that's just utter laziness and b/s from the dealership. I'm sorry you're dealing with such half-asses that would rather screw you over for a new transmission then to just drop the pan and clean it correctly. I swear, you can't get good service anywhere these days. If I were you, after cleaning that "screen", which acts like a "filter", and getting some good clean fluid in there, and everything is fixed, I'd print this thread out and mail it to Toytota. That's just crap. Sorry: Rant over....

Before you start taking things apart, might I suggest spending $10 bucks and a few hours downloading the manual pdf's on the car from:

https://techinfo.toyota.com/


You'll find instructions / torque settings / diagrams / how-to's for every nut, bolt, clip, seal, latch, tsb's, etc.., on your truck. I pretty much rebuilt my 95 LS with the manual I pulled down from here, and it never saw a wrench that I didn't own, from the day I found out about that site. It takes a while though to get all the Pdf files, but WELL WORTH IT!

I'm not sure if your pan has an actual gasket seal between the pan and transmission, or you use some silicone based seal around the edges "pryotec" type stuff. I'd pull the manual down first to check.

1st thing you want to do though, is drain out the fluid the best you can via the drain plug. I also recommend something with a large diameter to catch the drips from when the pan comes off. Be aware that you'll most likely encounter several more ounces of fluid in the pan when you take it off. From there, you should beable to see the screen, which I'm betting is super filthy. It should be a metal screen, and should slide out. Just rinse it off, gently dry it off with a towel "not paper towel", and let it air dry from there while you poke around. If you can, try to keep track of how much fluid comes out.

From there man, I'm gonna have to defer to the manual and more seasoned guys with your model. If your transmission isn't banging around, clicking due to missed teeth on the gear, on freakin' fire, or simply won't budge, then you're best bet is to clean that screen the best you can. On a good note though, as evidenced by continuously dirty fluid, the new fluid is doing it's job and cleaning the system the best it can. But my guess is that the screen is just too clogged up for the fluid alone to clean the system. If I am right and you find a nasty screen/filter in there, I'd recommend after you've finished to do another drain n' fill a few weeks down the road, just to make sure....

I'd try and search on here if anyone has ever successfully flushed their entire system via coolant lines. Chances are you'll have several ounces of old fluid still in the torque converter area/ or similiar. On my Mazda, it drains only 3 quarts via the plug, but holds 9 in the entire system. Same for my old LS...

Get the manual! You'll be very glad you did.

For a little confidence boost, here is the link to the Mazda site where I did my first pan drop, with pictures. It was quite easy! I'm also NC211 over there as well...

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=229f24336b861cf2034388dc00a05678&topic=66369.30

PS: I almost forgot a very very very important instruction: NEVER USE ANYTHING METAL TO BREAK THE PAN AWAY FROM THE TRANSMISSION!!! You'll groove the edges and will ultimately create channels for future leaks. Buy a good PLASTIC paint scrubber if it's stuck on there, and gently tap it "wedge it" between the pan and transmission. It'll break the seal and the pan should start to drop. And don't over-tighten the bolts when putting it back on. It's been my experience and I've heard from some others that it's pretty easy to strip out the threads of a transmission. Maybe it's aluminum? I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't want to find out the hard way!

and be patient, enjoy the time, and good luck amigo!

 

[aretk]

transmission issue

Chris and nc211,

Thank you very much for all the informative feedback.

I have not had a chance to download the PDF format of the Service manual at this time, that is tonights project.

I had a chance to drop my transmission pan over the weekend and take a look into the bottom, there was sludge about 1/2 inch thick and also once I cleaned the stuff, the pan had bubbled up from the antifreeze being in there back in March/08...once I touched the bubbles, water squirted out of each one...so I had to scrape off all the lining (it looked like Teflon). Hopefully that will not make any difference. Also found a plastic locking piece from one of the solenoids in the pan, it was in good condition so I put it back on. I drained about 6 quarts but the manual I have from Haynes does not give me specific information other than drain and refill instructions when it comes to Transmissions...the book is nearly worthless for Transmission issues. After successfully replacing the pan (next time I will remove the dip stick from above so I don

 

[CJ3Flyr]

I am 98% sure that on your vintage T4R the top (closest to engine) exhaust sensor is called the A/F ratio sensor. Most of the time we'd consider your engine to have four O2 sensors; but I think it has 2 A/F ratio sensors and two O2 sensors.

:cheers:

 

[wm69]

Re: transmission issue

Chris and nc211,

Thank you very much for all the informative feedback.

I have not had a chance to download the PDF format of the Service manual at this time, that is tonights project.

I had a chance to drop my transmission pan over the weekend and take a look into the bottom, there was sludge about 1/2 inch thick and also once I cleaned the stuff, the pan had bubbled up from the antifreeze being in there back in March/08...once I touched the bubbles, water squirted out of each one...so I had to scrape off all the lining (it looked like Teflon). Hopefully that will not make any difference. Also found a plastic locking piece from one of the solenoids in the pan, it was in good condition so I put it back on. I drained about 6 quarts but the manual I have from Haynes does not give me specific information other than drain and refill instructions when it comes to Transmissions...the book is nearly worthless for Transmission issues. After successfully replacing the pan (next time I will remove the dip stick from above so I don

 

[nc211]

Good job man! I'd hate to see what your garage floor looks like though! Hahaha... Sounds like we were right about the fluid being toast afterall, and the droping of the pan was required. I went onto a website that I used to buy my oem parts for my Lexus from (www.lexuspartsonline.com). They also sell Toyota parts too. When drilling down to a 99' 4runner, V6, under the maintenance and lubrication section, it shows a transmission FILTER for $40 bucks. I think you have to actually replace the filter. Which, unfortunately, sounds like you need to drop the pan again . Since the fluild was so bad, and you had a ton of gunk builtup in the pan, I would order the filter, drive the car a few hundred miles to let what you've done already cycle through and clean somemore parts, then drop the pan and replace the filter and refill with some more fluid. I think after that, you're golden for many many many more miles of smiles. I think the transmission will no-longer be an issue for you. I'm betting the hesitation you're still feeling is the clogged filter restricting the flow of the fluid through the system. I'd just take it easy on the ole' gal for about 200 miles and then do the filter.

The dealership is obviously not worth your time, and they're just there to over-sell you crap you don't need, like a new transmission, instead of a proper flush and new FILTER.

I'm dreading the upcoming transmission fluid change I'm facing with my 05', that is sealed. I don't care what they or anyone says about lifetime fluids....I don't buy it for a second. BMW said the same thing about their 3 series, until they started getting a flood of failed transmissions at the 70k mark. Anything that takes a beating like that, can't survive forever.

On you're other problems, I'm sorry, I have no idea how to do that stuff yet. But I would recommend scraping that book and downloading the manual from the site I mentioned earlier. It's FAR BETTER for your car! Plus, you get all the TSB's ever issued on your car, so you know what upgrades/updates/fixes have been issued for it from Toyota! It's probably one of the main reasons why I stayed with Toyota when replacing the LS. I knew I could fix it myself, or if I couldn't, I could print off the instructions and take it to a mechanic and say "this is what I want done, only".

 

[CJ3Flyr]

Good job man! I'd just take it easy on the ole' gal for about 200 miles and then do the filter.

:iagree:

Originally posted by nc211
I'm dreading the upcoming transmission fluid change I'm facing with my 05', that is sealed. I don't care what they or anyone says about lifetime fluids....I don't buy it for a second. BMW said the same thing about their 3 series, until they started getting a flood of failed transmissions at the 70k mark. Anything that takes a beating like that, can't survive forever.

I totally agree, change the fluid. Toyota even says to 'do it' for the people that tow. I consider city driving, 4wheeling etc enough justification for a 60k fluid change.

Don't sweat doing it. It's very easy. It's slightly more procedural in the sense you have to get the trans warmed properly. Get a little hand pump for your Toyota WS or Royal Purple fluid and it's easy! I haven't done mine yet but I did adjust the fluid level in association with my trans cooler install. My old Troopy had the same type of 'sealed' trans, it's really no big deal

There's a sticky with some good links at the top of Maint Section. There's some good reading that may be a nice supplement to the shop manual.

:cheers:

 

[aretk]

transmission issue/Air Fuel Sensor

CJ3Flyr, nc211, WM69;

thank you much for your thoughts and comments on my little-ole issues.

Just as an update, the tranny still has some hesitation at light gas peddal from take-off, but man when I come to a stop at a light from lets say a 50-60 mph driving speed, I feel a "thump" underneath the truck like someone hit me in the back!!! Is this because the gears are droping from 4th to 1st?

I will redo the transmission fluid in about a weeks time, I have already put 300 miles since the change, I will at that time replace the filter, I am hoping this will do the trick, otherwise I need to see those people at Aamco for a trans overhaul...I am hoping they will be straight up and not overcharge like the Good Ole boys at the Toyota dealer I went to.

CJ3Flyr; I am 98% sure that on your vintage T4R the top (closest to engine) exhaust sensor is called the A/F ratio sensor. Most of the time we'd consider your engine to have four O2 sensors; but I think it has 2 A/F ratio sensors and two O2 sensors.

and

WM69;This wouldn't be a mass air flow sensor would it? That's a common problem on 3rd gen 4runners and takes about 2 seconds to replace.......easy job.

the Air Fuel sensor part number is 89467-35011, (is there a website I can cross referrence the part number and possibly see where it is located) of course the dealer did not want to show me where this thing goes b/c they wanted to make $150 in labor for replacing it. If it is the upper sensor on the exhaust, that should not be a problem to replace. My concern is replacing the wrong one.

Thanks all and happy fixing.

Aret

 

[CJ3Flyr]

The text pretty much confirms it's an O2 sensor...


Mechanical Catalog
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
8946735011 $206.83 $0.00 $165.46
Electrical - Powertrain control - Oxygen sensor
Oxygen sensor, tacoma, 4 cylinder, front, all 2001 - 2004

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Collision Catalog
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
8946735011 $206.83 $0.00 $165.46
Emission system - Emission components - Sensor - Air fuel ratio
Air fuel ratio - 3.4 liter 2001-02 2001 - 2002

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8946735011 $206.83 $0.00 $165.46
Emission system - Emission components - Sensor - Air/fuel ratio california
Auto trans - 3.4 liter 1996-2000 1999 - 2000

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OEM Catalog
Item Number MSRP Core Price Price
8946735011 $206.83 $0.00 $165.46

SENSOR, AIR FUEL RAT

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:cheers: