Transmission slipping after A/T filter change

[austinringding]

Howdy out there!

I'm having some A/T slipping issues and wanted to turn to the forums to see if anyone can help shed some light on what my issue is and where to go from here.

So, what happened is I hired an unemployed mechanic friend of mine to perform some routine maintenance on my truck last weekend. One of the things he recommended doing was to drain A/T pan, replace filter and pan gasket, then refill to original level.

I said fine, ordered the trans filter kit and fluid from a local Advance auto parts and gave him the green light.

Prior to this service, I've never had any issues with the transmission. Now the truck is hardly driveable as it transmission is constantly slipping and acting like it's in neutral.

Very very frustrating! Don't fix what isn't broke I guess is the lesson to be rehashed here.

Anyway, can anyone tell me why this would be happening? Is there anything I can check and /or troubleshoot?

The fluid he used was a Castrol Transmax Dexron III type that Advance sold us. I've attached a photo of the type just for reference.

Thanks in advance for any and all help, comments, and /or advice.

 

[T4R2014]

Start simple. Is the fluid level good? If you only bought a gallon then it may be low since dropping the pan and removing the filter will cause more than a gallon of fluid to drain.

 

[joshespdx]

I saw this numerous when I was a tech. A customer with a high-mileage rig would come in and want a complete trans service done. We typically frowned on it if it had never been done and the vehicle had more than 70k or 80k miles. New fluids have much better lubricity and a lot of detergents. When you remove the older fluids that are "stickier" with no detergent value left, and replace it with slick new fluid with a lot of cleaning agent you can run into your exact situation. The new fluid can expose worn parts, particularly your clutch packs. Unfortunately, there's little that can usually be done. I've seen a fair number of people do this against advice and lose there transmission in a matter of days.

Before you do anything, though, follow [MENTION=71030]T4R2014[/MENTION] 's advice. Get up to temp and check your fluid levels. I'm crossing my fingers that your fluid is only low!

 

[StreetCreeper]

I saw this numerous when I was a tech. A customer with a high-mileage rig would come in and want a complete trans service done. We typically frowned on it if it had never been done and the vehicle had more than 70k or 80k miles. New fluids have much better lubricity and a lot of detergents. When you remove the older fluids that are "stickier" with no detergent value left, and replace it with slick new fluid with a lot of cleaning agent you can run into your exact situation. The new fluid can expose worn parts, particularly your clutch packs. Unfortunately, there's little that can usually be done. I've seen a fair number of people do this against advice and lose there transmission in a matter of days.

Before you do anything, though, follow [MENTION=71030]T4R2014[/MENTION] 's advice. Get up to temp and check your fluid levels. I'm crossing my fingers that your fluid is only low!

While you may be correct, I think that might be a bit premature in the OPs case. He hardly even flushed 1/3 of the old fluid out. It was only a drain and fill, so its not as if a machine stirred up all the old crap either.

Again while you may be correct in the end, I think as TR2014 mentioned, start simple. I think more than likely the mechanic did something wrong.

I have 390,000 miles on my transmission and I did a full 16qt flush while swapping out the solenoids — and she shifts better than ever now. Perhaps I just got lucky, but that was several thousand miles ago and no issues at all.

 

[808islerunner]

Verify the fluid level is correct first. What it could also be is the he forgot to replace or install the paper/cork gasket that goes between the filter and valve body. Also need to verify if he even tightened up the filter bolts. The filter sometimes use a o-ring or rubber seal, need to check if they were imstalled

 

[The Count]

I'd say start with what has already been recommended….

- get up to operating temp and check the fluid level
- pull pan and check for proper installation of filter and verify it looks like an OEM one

That being said, I have NEVER been a fan of changing trans fluids on higher mileage (over 100K or so) vehicles. I have seen a number of them start to slip immediately after a filter/fluid change, and even more after a "transmission service machine" was used. The idea is that over time the fluid friction disk material in it, thus giving it greater "grip" and reducing the odds of the transmission experiencing slippage. Putting new fluid in, even in the case of several quarts, will make the fluid more "slick" and raise the odds of slippage. Again, this is all in theory.

I once busted a trans cooler line on an old Chevy car that was fairly built with a TH350 trans running a 10in convertor. It was late at night and it began slipping on my way home. I figured "f***-it, I can make it home". I made it a block from home and walked from there. The next day I called the guy who built the transmission and he said NOT to change the fluid that was in the transmission, EVER. Just fill it back up and leave it alone. It took 7 quarts to fill and looked dark as hell. But it is still in the car and AFAIK it has never been serviced.

 

[Drcoffee]

Do job again, but this time use an OEM toyota filter. I have seen comparisons of aftermarket filters that have problems seating correctly to the inlet port of the transmission, allowing air to suck in rather than ATF.

So long as the trans fluid is compatible, it should be fine. I prefer valvoline max life ATF.

But since you mention it slipped right after the filter change, that would be my call.

Just for the record, the trans filter isn't a filter. Its a screen that stops chunks from recirculating. It can't filter effectively simply because its a suction not a pressure port. If the screen was effective it would clog and starve the trans of fluid. There is no reason to ever change that screen. However, if you want a filter, install a Magnefine filter 3/8" port in the cooler line where its actually under pressure to effectively filter the fluid. I swear by them and have one on each of my four vehicles. Also one on the power steering line as well.

 

[RockUHard]

I did the tranny filter change with flush and used 8 quarts. I bet you are just low on fluid. Make sure you shift throw all the gears with it being warm up.

 

[Drcoffee]

I did the tranny filter change with flush and used 8 quarts. I bet you are just low on fluid. Make sure you shift throw all the gears with it being warm up.

Shouldn't we assume me he knows how to use a dip stick. Low fluid would have been obvious. But hey, he hired an out of work mechanic to work on his truck.

LOL

Rules of Life:

Rule #1
Never, and I mean Never hire a friend to do work for you. It will result in the loss of that friendship. You cant get pissed at them, nor hold them financially responsible for the errors. Just dont do it.

Rule #2
Never, and I mean Never LOAN friends money. Just give it to them.
If they pay you back great. If they dont, you wont ruin your friendship. And you will learn quickly to never give them money again.

 

[mtbtim]

I've never heard of not changing the trans fluid on a higher mileage transmission for fear it would cause slipping with the new fluid. However, I've never done a full flush either. I always just did the drain and refill on my vehicles. I had a Honda Accord that had around 220,000 miles on it when the trans started to slip on long drives and at a incline. I drove it another 20,000 miles avoiding longer drives and then donated it. I currently have a Subura Outback with 320,000 miles and I drain and refill the trans every 10,000 miles. I have hard shift from second to third but no slipping with the Subaru and I've driven the car hard it's whole life.

I've been doing the same with my 2000 4runner, draining the pan and replacing around 5 quarts every 10,000 miles. My theory is if I do it every 10,000 miles, I will effectively renewed the fluid every 30,000 miles since I remember the capacity is somewhere around 15 quarts. When I learned the filter under the pan was just there to filter out big chunks, I decided to not waste my time and money on dropping the pan and replacing the filter. I did get an opinion from an experienced mechanic who has owned his own shop for 20+ years and he also said just do the drain and refill and not waste time with dropping the pan and replacing the filter.

Possibly this is an issue where the fluid wasn't changed for a very long time causing excessive wear to the trans, and then when new fluid is introduced, you get the slipping phenomena that people are describing. I have a hard time believing a well-maintained higher mileage trans would have problems when you drain and refill it with fluid on a regular interval.

Anyway, interesting discussion. Hope the OP's trans gets to live a longer life.

 

[808islerunner]

Need to disagree here on the whole filter doesn't filter thing. Regardless it's a screen type, paper or cloth it does filter out even small particles of clutch and metal, not just "chunks". Anyone who did a trans service will obviously notice a glitter look to the fluid, that's because bushings, thrust washers and clutch material do wear out, but enough of it still gets thru the filter without clogging so the trans still functions. Hondas have internal filters built in the trans and the reason they slip is the filter just becomes too clogged with clutch material or metal. Not having to change trans fluid ever is also ridiculous, it breaks down just like any oil. If you have to keep topping off, then you obviously have a leak. Always use the recommended fluid. The filter was replaced then it started to slip, so verify either the gasket or o-ring was placed on the filter when he did the service, I mentioned this along with someone else.

 

[_YoYi_]

Rules of Life:

Rule #1
Never, and I mean Never hire a friend to do work for you. It will result in the loss of that friendship. You cant get pissed at them, nor hold them financially responsible for the errors. Just dont do it.

Rule #2
Never, and I mean Never LOAN friends money. Just give it to them.
If they pay you back great. If they dont, you wont ruin your friendship. And you will learn quickly to never give them money again.

Totally agree.

 

[Jhelms]

Verify the RIGHT filter screen assembly was used. They are different between 2wd and 4wd. Also, the non OEM strainers are a joke and not built properly (even ones from my favorite aftermarket filter companies)

I have done countless strainer / filter / pan cleanings with fluid changes on high mileage vehicles. I have never had an issues. The key is cleaning the pan right, cleaning the magnets, using the proper parts. My 4gunner restore and rework post in my sig has details and photos of proper transmission maintenance on a 4runner (both of mine performed well past 200K miles without issue)

 

[joshespdx]

[MENTION=1318]austinringding[/MENTION] What's the latest on your transmission?

 

[austinringding]

I finally got around to driving the vehicle again today and drove it 12 miles.

Once hot, i checked the transmission fluid with truck running.

Fluid level was waaaaaay below even the COLD marking.

I drove to O'reillys and got some Dexron III fluid and a transmission fluid funnel and added a 1/4 qt.

It seems to have made a HUGE difference.

It's weird because we measured the fluid that came out and replaced almost exactly that much; but it was still low in the end.

Either way, i'm going to monitor it over the next week and add more as needed.

Thanks for all the great insight!

 

[diverscale]

I finally got around to driving the vehicle again today and drove it 12 miles.

Once hot, i checked the transmission fluid with truck running.

Fluid level was waaaaaay below even the COLD marking.

I drove to O'reillys and got some Dexron III fluid and a transmission fluid funnel and added a 1/4 qt.

It seems to have made a HUGE difference.

It's weird because we measured the fluid that came out and replaced almost exactly that much; but it was still low in the end.

Either way, i'm going to monitor it over the next week and add more as needed.

Thanks for all the great insight!

if its way below the cold level, you need to put more than 1/4 quarts!

Driving with your transmission this way, you WILL damage it.

When the truck is cold, add oil to ''cold'' level, then go drive normally for 20 minutes or more.

Go back home and add oil until it is located in the ''hot'' level if it is not already.

 

[mtbtim]

Even though the OP could have easily figured out this problem with a simple check of the transmission fluid dipstick, like [MENTION=71030]T4R2014[/MENTION] suggested on the first reply, I did learn something from this thread from the members commenting.

Also, there was no need to drive the vehicle around to heat up the transmission to find out the level was low. That's why there's cold and hot level marks on the dipstick. I'm guessing if the OP would have checked the level when it was cold, it wouldn't have even registered on the dipstick. Like somebody already noted, you're probably going to have to add more than 1/4 quart to get it to full capacity. Add some, wait a little bit, recheck. Repeat until it's full.

And, since we can't assume this is common knowledge, always check your fluid levels on a level surface. If the vehicle is at a slant, the fluid level reading will not be accurate.

 

[RockUHard]

Nice to know my cmemt help!

 

[amalik]

Rules of Life:

Rule #1
Never, and I mean Never hire a friend to do work for you. It will result in the loss of that friendship. You cant get pissed at them, nor hold them financially responsible for the errors. Just dont do it.

Rule #2
Never, and I mean Never LOAN friends money. Just give it to them.
If they pay you back great. If they dont, you wont ruin your friendship. And you will learn quickly to never give them money again.

I haven't experienced Rule #2 yet, but you sure hit the head on rule #1.

I had a friend do some work on my house and let's just say he ****ed it up pretty bad, both the work and the unfair compensation he charged me for that ****ed up work, and let's just say, you're spot on when you say we aren't friends anymore.

Especially sucks because he lives less than 5 minutes away from me.

 

[BoomSticks]

Fluid level was waaaaaay below even the COLD marking.

Occam's Razor applies to working on cars, too.