TRD's w/ KDSS - Lower Ground Clearance???

[mteolus]

FWIW, my Lexus GX 460 ground clearance is 8.1”.

Yep, sounds correct. I think they would rather fudge the ground clearance numbers rather than lift it and take the gas mileage hit and the guzzler tax that comes with it.

8 or 8.1 inches, that is pathetic considering a Subaru has higher ground clearance. That's why I lifted mine. Keeps the gas guzzler tax down, you just have to factor in the cost of the lift when purchasing it.

I am pretty sure the 1" TRD Pro lift will lift the skids some, so saying all models have the same ground clearance is probably not correct.

Once lifted the front will have higher ground clearance than a Jeep's differential, but of course you will have less articulation and not as strong as a single axle. But with the 4Runner you get reliability and more room.

 

[MAST4R]

I measured mine after I bought it at the lowest part of the front skid. 8". That's how I know. Exactly where that was on the skid plate, I can't remember. Regarding the 8.5 for an non-KDSS OR I was basing this on posts I have seen on this forum for those that own one. Regarding the 9.5 for TRD PRO, I based that off of many posts saying the front end suspension on the TRD PRO gives an additional inch.

And I think I read the TRD Pro front skid plate will fit on a KDSS equipped OR. It doesn't.

Ok, that makes sense.

To repeat yet again:

TRD Offroad non-KDSS=SR5= 9.6 at front and 9.2 under oil pan.

TRD Offroad KDSS = 8.6 at front end and 8/8.2 under oil pan.

This is how all three of us are correct (you, me, and the guy from Denver).

TRD Pro skid fits on KDSS models. No problem. Mounts to exactly the same mounting spots as it does on other models. If clearance was an issue - KDSS skid would be exactly the same as every other model with the same front suspension height.

There is no question that you are the expert overall, but your numbers are wrong for the KDSS ground clearance in stock form.

It is now three of us that have measured KDSS vs non-KDSS at dealers and the conclusion is beyond doubt. It is up to you to explain why exactly KDSS models lose that much clearance.

FWIW, my Lexus GX 460 ground clearance is 8.1”.

I have NEVER trusted Toyota’s numbers because they fudge a lot. When i had my 2002 4runner, Toyota quoted 11” ground clearance......trust me, it was NOT even close to that! Toyota has always been loose with their claims.

Lexus, on the other hand, has always been conservative with their numbers.....and generally real to life.

Yes, and 470 was 8.3.

 

[thennen]

Yep, sounds correct. I think they would rather fudge the ground clearance numbers rather than lift it and take the gas mileage hit and the guzzler tax that comes with it.

8 or 8.1 inches, that is pathetic considering a Subaru has higher ground clearance. That's why I lifted mine. Keeps the gas guzzler tax down, you just have to factor in the cost of the lift when purchasing it.

I am pretty sure the 1" TRD Pro lift will lift the skids some, so saying all models have the same ground clearance is probably not correct.

Once lifted the front will have higher ground clearance than a Jeep's differential, but of course you will have less articulation and not as strong as a single axle. But with the 4Runner you get reliability and more room.

Which Subaru did you measure?

 

[Big_Cuss]

Ok, that makes sense.

To repeat yet again:

TRD Offroad non-KDSS=SR5= 9.6 at front and 9.2 under oil pan.

TRD Offroad KDSS = 8.6 at front end and 8/8.2 under oil pan.

This is how all three of us are correct (you, me, and the guy from Denver).

And to be WRONG yet again.

My KDSS measured 9.25" at the lowest part of the front skid. 8.75" at the lowest diff skid point, as highlighted in the long post by the guy further up here (he turned out to be right).

I suspect every 5th gen is thus equally at ~8.75" when new at that spot, and 9.5" or so for TRD Pro... but either way, that diff cover skid sucks, and is lower than the non-different KDSS and non KDSS skid plate clearances.

The only trucks coming in less are likely due to age related sag (ha ha) of the suspension, low tire pressure, or extra weight on their truck.

 

[MAST4R]

Which Subaru did you measure?

Any 2010+ utility Subaru will have a true 8.7" minimum ground clearance to the exhaust in the middle of the vehicle. The problem is that it is not a point, but rather a whole section at that level.

Still, a Subaru has a lot of clearance to any vital parts. The issues there are the angles, not the clearance. The AA is compromised by the boxer engine and the symmetrical design. Further, the AA on Outbacks and XVs is compromised for some stylistic reasons because there is a lot of worthless front plastic that can be cut. So, you gain excellence on dirt at the expense at potential in rocks, for which Subarus are not designed anyway.

But on dirt....


As for the clearance, I have enough of that, lol, someone needs to take a tape measure to the nearby dealer and measure and take pics.
[MENTION=303056]Bayou_Pro[/MENTION] ... you are on a mission

To measure and take pic of the ground clearance under different spots of the factory engine/oil pan skids of a stock KDSS on a flat spot

 

[Offwidth]

Ok, that makes sense.

To repeat yet again:

TRD Offroad non-KDSS=SR5= 9.6 at front and 9.2 under oil pan.

TRD Offroad KDSS = 8.6 at front end and 8/8.2 under oil pan.

This is how all three of us are correct (you, me, and the guy from Denver).



There is no question that you are the expert overall, but your numbers are wrong for the KDSS ground clearance in stock form.

It is now three of us that have measured KDSS vs non-KDSS at dealers and the conclusion is beyond doubt. It is up to you to explain why exactly KDSS models lose that much clearance.


Yes, and 470 was 8.3.

Your numbers are wrong. There is no difference in clearance between RCI skids with and without space for KDSS bar.

And it is more about articulation and protection. Wife’s GLC with air suspension jacks up higher than 4Runner. It would not go nearly as far before three wheeling and getting hung. And KDSS improves articulation.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

As for the clearance, I have enough of that, lol, someone needs to take a tape measure to the nearby dealer and measure and take pics.
[MENTION=303056]Bayou_Pro[/MENTION] ... you are on a mission

To measure and take pic of the ground clearance under different spots of the factory engine/oil pan skids of a stock KDSS on a flat spot

Wait how did I get drug into yalls pissing match? [emoji1787]

Man I was just there on Tuesday getting my oil changed. I know they had one Pro on the lot and a few ORs but didn't notice of any of them had KDSS or not. I can do it but I won't have another day off until next Friday.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MAST4R]

Your numbers are wrong. There is no difference in clearance between RCI skids with and without space for KDSS bar.

And it is more about articulation and protection. Wife’s GLC with air suspension jacks up higher than 4Runner. It would not go nearly as far before three wheeling and getting hung. And KDSS improves articulation.

Thanks for bringing the RCI skid plates to prove my point.

My RCI skid dropped my front skid clearance from 9.6 to 8.75. Since you are saying that there is no difference between the two RCI skids, then you are merely confirming what I and two others already said. Stock vs stock, KDSS has less clearance. This is not a verdict on KDSS. It is a tidbit. May matter to some and not to others.

 

[Jetboy]

There must be two kdss models. I posted photos of the one im familiar with. Obviously the diff skid is lower than the engine skid. We can all see it. We don't need to argue about it.

Maybe you could post some pictures of the other version? The one where the kdss skid is lower?

 

[MAST4R]

There must be two kdss models. I posted photos of the one im familiar with. Obviously the diff skid is lower than the engine skid. We can all see it. We don't need to argue about it.

Maybe you could post some pictures of the other version? The one where the kdss skid is lower?

[MENTION=171879]mteolus[/MENTION] , [MENTION=126337]MoonStorm[/MENTION] , and I all measured brand new vehicles with kdss getting the same numbers. All others in this thread are measuring something else.

and all of us on p.2 missed that the OP measured yesterday and reported 8.7. https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3241720-post15.html

No one is arguing against KDSS here. We are talking about a tidbit.

There is no need to have [MENTION=303056]Bayou_Pro[/MENTION] kneel down under some vehicles.

Also, again: Nowhere near the advertised ground clearance

 

[Big_Cuss]

The lowest clearance is at the diff skid behind the engine, not the front skid.

That said, you put 2-3 people in a Subaru and it compresses the suspension enough to be at about 6" clearance, whereas the 4runner doesn't squat nearly as much.

I've had a lifted 3rd gen and now a stock 5th gen and ground clearance is barely an issue. The most likely place to drag is the rear hitch on steep departures. Having the low clearance diff skid near the wheels makes it easy to protect by placing one of the wheels on the protrusion to avoid it rather than around.

The only people bothered by this are rock crawlers who, lets face it, are just too lazy to go hiking or exploring and just wanna sit in a Toyota office chair while pretending to explore ;D

Oh and the KDSS skid is only marginally lower (but still not as low as the front diff skid) because of the extra droop it allows the suspension.

 

[mteolus]

Also, again: Nowhere near the advertised ground clearance

Exactly. Not great ground clearance and not as advertised. My buddies Jeep has 11" of ground clearance stock (not including the diffs). No doubt wind resistance would lower the gas mileage if the vehicle had more clearance from the factory and it wouldn't have met that magical 20 mpg highway if it was higher. Maybe the gas guzzler tax kicks in at 19 mpg.

 

[MAST4R]

Exactly. Not great ground clearance and not as advertised. My buddies Jeep has 11" of ground clearance stock (not including the diffs). No doubt wind resistance would lower the gas mileage if the vehicle had more clearance from the factory and it wouldn't have met that magical 20 mpg highway if it was higher. Maybe the gas guzzler tax kicks in at 19 mpg.

I have been in the "8.5 to 10" up front boat before and the difference in how often one hits is huge. But it is not a difference in where one gets. I have dragged and hit on 1/6 difficult trails the 4R has done so far, but that aside, all the hitting has been on moderate trails, usually where terrain switches abruptly.

At the end, I still did go for Dobinsons coils up front, which raised the RCI steel skid to 10.25. With that and 9.5 to the rear I am totally fine.

Looking at the angles at which everything is, looks like the 4R could easily have had an extra inch of clearance from factory. At least it comes with excellent rocker panel clearance from the factory.

The JK Rubicons have 9.9, very similar to our 9.6. The JL Rubicons, however, have 10.9. But again, their incredible angles are more of an advantage than that extra clearance under the axles. But I don't really care. The total of trails I would like to drive but would pass on for the time being is very small (Kane Creek, Golden Crack, Gold Bar Rim, Behind the Rocks). I don't have the CO ones on top of my head, but they won't be more than 2-4 that a/I want to do and b/feel like avoiding. I don't care to drive Holy Cross, for example.

 

[mteolus]

I don't care to drive Holy Cross, for example.

I saw some videos on Holy Cross on YouTube and it looks like you practically need a dune buggy to do that one.

I dented my skid plate on mine on Como Lake Rd. before Jaws. That was going downhill, the weak springs from the factory cause it to bounce. But yea, most Colorado 4x4 roads can be done stock. I had no problems with Yankee Boy Basin. Wouldn't be a good idea to do Poughkeepsie Gulch though.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

But yea, most Colorado 4x4 roads can be done stock. I had no problems with Yankee Boy Basin. Wouldn't be a good idea to do Poughkeepsie Gulch though.

Hoping to make the FJ Summit this year. Do you think I would have any issues with Black Bear or Poughkeepsie? I Have a TRD Pro with stock skids, additional 2" front lift/1 rear and 285s. I would probably bypass the wall though. Thanks.

 

[Jetboy]

Hoping to make the FJ Summit this year. Do you think I would have any issues with Black Bear or Poughkeepsie? I Have a TRD Pro with stock skids, additional 2" front lift/1 rear and 285s. I would probably bypass the wall though. Thanks.

You should have no problem in a stock 4runner on those trails from what I've seen. I have not done Poughkeepsie - but it's been done in a Subaru. So you should be good to go with a lift and 285s. I have run Black Bear. It should be no problem at all. I did it on my set of street tires on 20" wheels and didn't have a problem. It's mostly just bumpy, nothing really technical unless you do something stupid like drive off the edge. I'd rate it at something like a 3 or 4 out of 10 based on other trail ratings in Moab.

The trails in that area are beautiful. Well worth the trip even though they're not particularly challenging. I'm sure you'll have a great time if you go.

 

[Bayou_Pro]

You should have no problem in a stock 4runner on those trails from what I've seen. I have not done Poughkeepsie - but it's been done in a Subaru. So you should be good to go with a lift and 285s. I have run Black Bear. It should be no problem at all. I did it on my set of street tires on 20" wheels and didn't have a problem. It's mostly just bumpy, nothing really technical unless you do something stupid like drive off the edge. I'd rate it at something like a 3 or 4 out of 10 based on other trail ratings in Moab.

The trails in that area are beautiful. Well worth the trip even though they're not particularly challenging. I'm sure you'll have a great time if you go.

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[MAST4R]

I saw some videos on Holy Cross on YouTube and it looks like you practically need a dune buggy to do that one.

I dented my skid plate on mine on Como Lake Rd. before Jaws. That was going downhill, the weak springs from the factory cause it to bounce. But yea, most Colorado 4x4 roads can be done stock. I had no problems with Yankee Boy Basin. Wouldn't be a good idea to do Poughkeepsie Gulch though.

Hoping to make the FJ Summit this year. Do you think I would have any issues with Black Bear or Poughkeepsie? I Have a TRD Pro with stock skids, additional 2" front lift/1 rear and 285s. I would probably bypass the wall though. Thanks.

You should have no problem in a stock 4runner on those trails from what I've seen. I have not done Poughkeepsie - but it's been done in a Subaru. So you should be good to go with a lift and 285s. I have run Black Bear. It should be no problem at all. I did it on my set of street tires on 20" wheels and didn't have a problem. It's mostly just bumpy, nothing really technical unless you do something stupid like drive off the edge. I'd rate it at something like a 3 or 4 out of 10 based on other trail ratings in Moab.

The trails in that area are beautiful. Well worth the trip even though they're not particularly challenging. I'm sure you'll have a great time if you go.

Now this is a discussion!

Yes, the Wall on Poughkeepsie Gulch is the only obstacle in the entire Ouray-Silverton area. Imogene is eroded a lot but that's only by the comparatively mild standards of the area. I read on JeepTheUSA that a legal bypass of the Wall was built. If so, that much the better.

Bear in mind that the ultra scenic routes there do not require Poughkeepsie . It is just a connector from Mineral Creek aka Lower Engineer to Lake Como/Hurricane/California.

[MENTION=118321]Jetboy[/MENTION] , if you are referring to a Blue Fox video from a few years ago, no he did not complete the trail. He drove through the boulder field and to the Wall but never attempted it. He has now put a dual range gearbox from Australia via a friend of mine so he might give it a go. But I do not follow the Foz forum anymore.

He did Black Bear twice as well as Mineral Creek but only downhill. I have driven 19 "4x4" trails in my Outback there but not Black Bear or Imogene. Governor Basin was the only rated difficult that I did. I am not sure why it is rated difficult (it does have a super narrow spot but the surface outside Sydney Basin is mild).

That said, don't make Black Bear one of your first trails there. And watch out for gotchas on the easier sections. I think three folks rolled over their IFS rigs on a seemingly mild spot last summer. Including an FJ.

 

[Offwidth]

Thanks for bringing the RCI skid plates to prove my point.

My RCI skid dropped my front skid clearance from 9.6 to 8.75. Since you are saying that there is no difference between the two RCI skids, then you are merely confirming what I and two others already said. Stock vs stock, KDSS has less clearance. This is not a verdict on KDSS. It is a tidbit. May matter to some and not to others.

You are wrong. There is not difference between two versions of that skid. There is not difference in general, as that bar is not the lowest point. And my KDSS RCI skid did not drop clearance as you claim it does. I have no idea what you measured, but I have compared my vehicle, to my friend's without KDSS, and they have same clearance before and after various mods.

Can't remeasure it now as have a minor lift and aftermarket skids, and bumper and stuff.

 

[Offwidth]

There must be two kdss models. I posted photos of the one im familiar with. Obviously the diff skid is lower than the engine skid. We can all see it. We don't need to argue about it.

Maybe you could post some pictures of the other version? The one where the kdss skid is lower?

They obviously measured it all wrong, as you are right ant that part is NOT the lowest point.