Treaty Oak Off-road KDSS leveling kit

SnowYeti

SnowYeti

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I found them on a Land Cruiser forum, never heard of them before. Good reviews

I have the Blackgate Customs rear KDSS spacers and honestly, they are perfect. The fit was perfect, the quality, they could not be better.

But I have lean that is coming from the front right. I could adjust my rear springs preload, or the perch on the front but this seems like a bandaid that is not ideal. Their front KDSS spacer seems like the right fix. Plus I would guess less wear on the lower bar bushings. You will be able to order just the front soon I am told.

Blackgate is working on a solution as well, which I am sure will be excellent but no timeline yet.

Anyway here is a link.

Discussion on!


KDSS Spacer Kit | Treaty Oak Offroad
 
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The maker of these does not understand hydraulic pressures. This will not fix the lean if the KDSS system is properly balanced internally having similar pressure in the upper and lower chambers. It is inherently uneven because of the physical properties of the pistons being single ended and the system being run pressurized. The spring pre-load is the correct fix and likely the only long term fix. Offset spacers is not going to fix it.

You cannot physically have neutral force on the KDSS piston (not pushing down causing the lean) and also have balanced system pressure in the upper and lower chambers. If anyone can figure out how - you'll win a nobel prize in physics.

In the end - if you have KDSS - you have additional spring force on the driver's side that you don't on the passenger side. Adding a spring force via preload to the passenger side to balance is a bandaid. In a perfect world it would use 4 pistons and they'd all be double ended with balanced force in both directions. That's what McLaren does on its cars and in some sense what the LX570's AHC system does. But in an imperfect world, a coil spring adjustment is close enough.
 
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What's the issue? When you lifted your truck, the geometry between the hubs where the KDSS sway bars connects and the frame where the sway bars connect got changed. Putting spacers between the frame and swaybar on that match the lift will restore the factory geometry.
How is this different from extending your sway bar links on a non KDSS vehicle to accomplish the same goal?
 
I have a Dobinsons Lift on my 2018 4runner with KDSS. I used the KDSS specific springs front and rear and have ZERO lean. One day I will add the spacers to put the KDSS sway bars back closer to the factory geometry.
 
They were designed by the same person. Try searching for it on here, if not I can try and find it later (out of time right now)
 
I put these on when I lifted mine. I know some people say they don’t experience the KDSS lean after install, but I didn’t want to run the gamble. You will need to chop the crap out of your stock skid plate, though.
 
So if you do spacers in the front then you have to do same spacer on the skid plate.. kinds of defeats the purpose of a lift.

Spacers in the back aren't for the lean but for clearing the panhard bar which the KDSS bar would come in contact with. The marketing on that page seems off, there is a ton of info about KDSS spacers on the this forum going to way before these existed.

There is also this:
KDSS Compatible Rear Panhard Bar - Suits Lexus GX470/GX460/2010+ Toyota 4Runner
 
Question for the group. Why wouldn’t I get a front spacer for both sides. I keep running through it in my head, and it seems like have 4 spacers would do a better job of making sure the balance of the system is as close to stock after a lift. Otherwise, the front piston will need to be in a more extended position and I would assume this would create an opposite retraction of the rear piston.

Am I thinking about this correctly?
 
I4CUTigers said:
Question for the group. Why wouldn’t I get a front spacer for both sides. I keep running through it in my head, and it seems like have 4 spacers would do a better job of making sure the balance of the system is as close to stock after a lift. Otherwise, the front piston will need to be in a more extended position and I would assume this would create an opposite retraction of the rear piston.

Am I thinking about this correctly?
Click to expand...

The front spacer is to correct a lean to the passenger side which is why the front only comes with one spacer. Stock kdss equipped 4runners typically have a little bit of lean if you measure it and it can be exaggerated as you modify it depending on which route you go.

I'm not the know it all expert here so by all means do your own research, but I think some spring sets compensate for the lean - I think even the factory springs do.

Mine has the Icon stage 7 billet package on it with adjustable front coil overs, handles great and I have zero issues with KDSS or the rear pan hard bar touching anything - note that the Icon bar has a bend in it and is adjustable to help prevent that. I do not have a front spacer and there is no noticeable lean.

There are also some benefits to the rear extensions to help the kdss piston out. Whether it's to prevent things from colliding in the rear, to prevent the piston from over extending, or to increase rear articulation is all up for argument where I'm not knowledgeable enough to get involved in.
 
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NorthPark said:
The front spacer is to correct a lean to the passenger side which is why the front only comes with one spacer. Stock kdss equipped 4runners typically have a little bit of lean if you measure it and it can be exaggerated as you modify it depending on which route you go.

I'm not the know it all expert here so by all means do your own research, but I think some spring sets compensate for the lean - I think even the factory springs do.

Mine has the Icon stage 7 billet package on it with adjustable front coil overs, handles great and I have zero issues with KDSS or the rear pan hard bar touching anything - note that the Icon bar has a bend in it and is adjustable to help prevent that. I do not have a front spacer and there is no noticeable lean.

There are also some benefits to the rear extensions to help the kdss piston out. Whether it's to prevent things from colliding in the rear, to prevent the piston from over extending, or to increase rear articulation is all up for argument where I'm not knowledgeable enough to get involved in.
Click to expand...

No I get that, but in theory, let’s say the stock configuration has both KDSS pistons equalized at a 7 inches and the fixed link at 7 inches, sitting level. Then we lift and put a fixed link extension in, so now the fixed side is at 9 inches, but the position on the KDSS side has to extend to compensate for the difference. This would have to have an opposing effect on the rear piston I would assume.

Where as in the same scenario, if a spacer is on all four links, it should in theory get it close to stock configuration in both where it balances the system, and in articulation.

Hope that makes sense.
 
How much lift would indicate one should use the KDSS spacers? I only lifter mine about 3 inches in front and 1 1/2 in the back to be level.
I haven’t had any lean or issues when off reading.
Thanks for your opinion. ����
 
MartinMankat said:
How much lift would indicate one should use the KDSS spacers? I only lifter mine about 3 inches in front and 1 1/2 in the back to be level.
I haven’t had any lean or issues when off reading.
Thanks for your opinion. ����
Click to expand...

two trains of thought here:

1. if you have binding that occurs when you suspension flexes (sway bar to panhard bar) due to extended travel shocks or long travel, then you will probably need this.

or

2. If you are one who believes that your suspension works like a system, and want to get all the pieces of your suspension back into OEM angles after the lift because thats how the suspension was designed (i.e. lean, resetting sway bar, less stress on sway bar bushings, etc), even if its a small improvement by itself, they do add up to improving your suspension as a whole.
 
I got the spacer kit from Treaty Oak and only installed the rear spacers because I have extended travel rear shocks and don't want my panhard bar to contact the KDSS sway bar at droop. I also installed a Eimkeith PCK to move the panhard bar back to horizontal OEM angle which provides even more clearance, centers my axle left to right, and raises my roll center back to stock handling characteristics. I did not install the spacer on the front KDSS swaybar because I do not have a significant amount of lean that needs correcting.
 
Kamalani Mahie said:
I got the spacer kit from Treaty Oak and only installed the rear spacers because I have extended travel rear shocks and don't want my panhard bar to contact the KDSS sway bar at droop. I also installed a Eimkeith PCK to move the panhard bar back to horizontal OEM angle which provides even more clearance, centers my axle left to right, and raises my roll center back to stock handling characteristics. I did not install the spacer on the front KDSS swaybar because I do not have a significant amount of lean that needs correcting.
Click to expand...

i just want the ability to reset the KDSS sway bar to neutral so the bushings on the front LCA's arent constantly jacked up.
 
Awesome - thanks.
I may add a spacer just to keep geometry as was designed. I think the engineers were smart about the design.

Good advice.
 
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