manofsteele2003
New member
I upgraded from 5100's (.85) to 6112's (1.85") the alignment guy was able to get it in the green for caster but he said the adjustment was maxed out. Rides and drives good but I'll probably upgrade the UCAs at some point.
Trying to avoid buying UCA's with lift
- Thread starter Dirtrider216
- Start date
Presa Canario
New member
I tried to get around having to buy new UCA's and all it did was cause me issues. Just consider it part of the lift just like the springs/shocks. I have the 6112's set on the highest setting with T-13's in the rear with Icon shocks. When I installed it and got it aligned the caster was just below spec at 2.4 & 2.3 I think. It drove "ok", but I knew it wasn't right. Ive lifted every truck Ive ever owned and I know how they should handle. I ordered the new style SPC adjustable control arms for $390 shipped. They have a grease-able/replaceable ball joint. After getting these installed my caster is now at 4+ on both sides and could probably get as high as 6 (if there was a need for it). It drives/handles like a completely different vehicle now.
Presa Canario
New member
If its worth your time (or anyone looking), you can contact that vendor directly and he will sell them for $390 shipped.
Same, UCA installs weren't that bad. It would be hard without an extra set of hands, however. One person to push the bolt through and another to hold the UCA.
The passenger side bolt has a lot of crap in the way inside the engine bay and can be a big of a pain. Drivers side is laughable how much easier it was.
TEujunga
New member
Lots of opinions being presented as fact here. Maybe I'm the lone dissenter, but I'm perfectly happy with the way my T4R drives with 2 inches of lift and stock UCAs. My caster numbers are 2.4º / 2.8º, which is below spec, but I notice no twitchiness or tendency to wander. It feels very solid and planted on center to me. YMMV.
TEujunga
New member
I think you may be onto something. 2" is probably pretty safe, 2.5" may be borderline, and 3" is likely to feel scary to drive with stock UCAs.
It's hard for me to picture how as little as one tiny degree of caster could affect the handling so dramatically, though. It seems like such a trivial amount.
CajunYota
New member
I hear BFGoodrich KO2s are great in the snow, and apparently they do pretty well offroad as well.
dorkmagus
New member
I haven't lifted our 4Runner yet but my 2012 Tacoma has a 3" lift with stock UCAs and I was barely able to get the alignment in spec. Well camber and toe I got dead nuts and caster was in the green and almost dead on. It drives no different than stock. Someday I will get control arms but for now it's fine. I have also seen some tacomas that have a 3" lift and couldn't get aligned so it's rolling the dice. I assume 4runners are pretty much the same way.
BlackWorksInc
New member
A lot of people like the KO2's we throw them on a lot of our vehicles at the dealership. One of the biggest reasons is that they're a good compromise between on-road, off-road, and they have the bonus of being winter rated so the compound is more inline for winter.
I personally run a set of Toyo Open Country R/T's and have been liking them, they're not snow rated (no snowflake) but they do pretty well in the slush and powder. I would stay away from any Mud Terrians unless they are specifically Winter Rated because while the compound is usually soft, they lack a lot of siping for icy/wetter roads you'd see in winter. I know some people like getting them siped at Les Schwab, but usually they start tearing up pretty quick after you do that from what I've seen.
Basically you're options are a good AT/RT tire that is winter rated so you're sort of a "jack of all trades, master of none" or you'll want to get a set of good off-road AT/RT/MT's and a set of dedicated winter runners (I got a guy who has a Tacoma who runs KO2's during non-winter and a set of studded beefy guys in the winter since it gets icy out here).
Presa Canario
New member
I thought the very same thing. However on MY vehicle, going from 2.3 up to 4+ on caster made a huge difference in how it handled. I suppose a lot of it is subjective to the individual behind the wheel.
Would be curious as to the typical stock caster specs?
I had my Dunpop's replaced with KO2's for our yearly summer trip to Utah. I had them check the alignment on my 7 month old 4runner. My factory caster was 2.5-2.7.
DeadMarshall
New member
They do seem to be a popular tire on this forum in general, but i have come across a couple posts about them wearing out quickly. Guy at Discount recommended Nitto's for mine over the BFG's for the wear issues without me prompting him. I haven't made my decision yet though. Noticed Overland Expedition and Dirt Every Day on youtube both have had General Grabbers and they are growing on me the more i see them.
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Think about it this way, you set Toe to hundreths of a degree (that's .01 not .10) and a difference of as little as a tenth or two between left and right Toe is enough to cause your steering wheel to be off center and the vehicle to pull; at near half a degree you're scraping the edges of those tires off pretty aggressively and you'll feel it drag a tire.
It's also about suspension geometry as well, but that gets a bit more complicated.
"Twitchiness" is a very subjective thing, the thing about bumping up Caster is you get more control and steering feel. What people think that means is that the vehicle will drive straighter and never want to go away from straight and you don't really have to touch the steering wheel ever. The reality is closer to it being more sensitive in feel where turning is more responsive and return to center is easier, but conversely you'll notice the vehicle will want to follow imperfections a bit more (different from pulling as if you're on a straight level road the vehicle will track straight, where as a pull it will not). This gets a bit more exaggerated with wider tires. The lower the caster, the more the steering feels sporadic and almost wobbly like a shopping cart wheel just jittering about as you push it down the parking lot.
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So what is ideal caster for a lifted 4Runner? Where I had mine aligned, their specs said about 3.3 was "dead center" which is exactly where they set mine. It looks like the max it can go is 4.10 while still being in the green..
Jhalko
New member
The general consensus around here is push as close to 4 as you can. I think mine is running 3.6 and drives great. Personally if it's within spec, you don't have any rubbing issues, and it drives great I wouldn't even give it a second thought.
Thanks...was thinking of having it checked before I put a lift on and just matching it. I'm happy with how it drives on the highway now.
