if thats how it is worded, then they didnt false advertise, right? the air injection system isnt part of the exhaust?
**UPDATE** - DT has made right - Buyer Beware - Doug Thorley Headers
- Thread starter Marfy
- Start date
if thats how it is worded, then they didnt false advertise, right? the air injection system isnt part of the exhaust?
Marfy
New member
In the interest of keeping facts straight, that isn’t worded anywhere. Go to the product page yourself. It’s very simple. It has a photo of the headers and material is specified as stainless steel.
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Charlievee
Senior Member
If only Kooks made headers for the 4runner.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
From their website for the 05'-09':
"Stainless Steel Shortie Headers
2005-09 Toyota 4Runner
2005-09 Lexus GX470"
"Header Style: Shortie Headers
Material: T304 Stainless Steel
Finish: Silver Ceramic Coated"
"These stainless steel shortie headers are a fantastic way to work some extra horsepower out of your 4Runner."
Same for their Tri-Y 05'-09' headers:
" This kit includes ceramic coated, T304 stainless steel long tube tri-y headers and O2 sensor extensions (CEL will still need to be address for best performance). To make these headers last, we built them using industry leading 14-gauge T304 stainless steel tubing with 3/8" thick flanges."
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Marfy
New member
Install too ... it isn’t a walk in the park. Buy these plus tax, shipping and install, that’s a decent investment despite the value...
Marfy
New member
Googled ‘California false advertising’ and found this:
“California law prohibits advertising that is untrue or misleading. Untrue advertising is advertising that makes an untrue statement. Advertising that a shirt is made from cotton when it is actually made from polyester is an example of untrue advertising.
Under California law, advertising is misleading if it would likely deceive a reasonable consumer. Whether an advertisement is misleading depends upon the overall impression that the advertisement conveys, including the words and images used.”
Seems to fit the bill quite well...
“California law prohibits advertising that is untrue or misleading. Untrue advertising is advertising that makes an untrue statement. Advertising that a shirt is made from cotton when it is actually made from polyester is an example of untrue advertising.
Under California law, advertising is misleading if it would likely deceive a reasonable consumer. Whether an advertisement is misleading depends upon the overall impression that the advertisement conveys, including the words and images used.”
Seems to fit the bill quite well...
Charlievee
Senior Member
Just need to get this off my chest. If you are running stock, you are running exhaust manifolds. Not headers. Just saying.
Spriter
New member
So for those who have already purchased this product, and are unhappy with the reality that it was misconstrued to be of one type of high quality metal, and instead was made of separate types for cost savings, regardless of whether it has thrown a CEL or any other issues, this falls under misleading/false advertising.
In this sort of case where the payout is not worth going to court, i recommend small claims court. In San Diego and most of the state and in fact most states in general, the fee is tiny (like $30) and you represent your self (in fact, representation is usually not permitted, which is good for you as you cant get snowballed out of court cus the other party is rich and has powerful lawyers).
Here is the link for the SD Small Claims court where they have an advisor that can help prepare your case. (This case would be pretty cut and dry due to how blatantly it was misconstrued meaning it will likely go through court fairly quickly)
Small Claims
If you are not in SD CA, there are similar pages for all small claims court in most states as far as i understand, a quick search will turn it up, and hopefully result in an re-acquisition of your money.
This is the best way to prevent corporations from stomping all over your rights as a consumer and emptying your wallet.
Those who bought this particular header should seek damages in small claims. Its a lot easier than it seems, and it can help us all prevent corporations from trying to abuse enthusiasts like us.
In this sort of case where the payout is not worth going to court, i recommend small claims court. In San Diego and most of the state and in fact most states in general, the fee is tiny (like $30) and you represent your self (in fact, representation is usually not permitted, which is good for you as you cant get snowballed out of court cus the other party is rich and has powerful lawyers).
Here is the link for the SD Small Claims court where they have an advisor that can help prepare your case. (This case would be pretty cut and dry due to how blatantly it was misconstrued meaning it will likely go through court fairly quickly)
Small Claims
If you are not in SD CA, there are similar pages for all small claims court in most states as far as i understand, a quick search will turn it up, and hopefully result in an re-acquisition of your money.
This is the best way to prevent corporations from stomping all over your rights as a consumer and emptying your wallet.
Those who bought this particular header should seek damages in small claims. Its a lot easier than it seems, and it can help us all prevent corporations from trying to abuse enthusiasts like us.
jbtvt
New member
It's not an opinion, it'a a fact. Neither you, nor your "70 year old friend who's been wrenching for 112 years" have a clue what you're talking about. I work with aluminum daily as a commercial glazier. If not anodized, which these covers are not, it will oxidize in no time, add a little salt to the mix and all bets are off. I recently pulled a set of heads of a '97 engine that were absolutely covered with thick oxidation, factory manifolds were still fine. Briefly owned and sold an '04 V8 that was rotting away from prior owner's neglect, manifolds were fine. Current GX 4.7 manifolds are fine, despite plenty of oxidation in just a few years since bringing back from TX. Rust doesn't crack manifolds - expansion and contraction from drastic temperature changes, etc does. Rust DOES eat through thin wall tubing like that on the injection pipes though. I get that you've had issues. Bound to happen to some of us, and sucks when it's you. You are definitely not helping the cause you think you're helping here though, and you're doing even more damage to your credibility than you are to your cause.
FTR, I wasn't on OP's side at all until he mentioned that they were sold as being all stainless, and posted the sheet showing that - no mention of carbon steel. Rust happens - but not if you're buying something that's supposed to be stainless. That's some BS and absolutely class action lawsuit material. What were they thinking??
I just got a mailing from these guys the other day from some other unrelated class action I joined a while back, no affiliation, but I'd shoot them or someone else an email if I was in your shoes - Case Evaluation - Clarkson Law Firm
Toyrundrive
New member
Even though I have a 2003, I now regret supporting these guys. Far too often I've discovered that If you are going to pay someone to do something, the WILL **** it up.
Get on that better business bureau, consumer protections... etc. from what I understand the california state hammer hits pretty ****ing hard
Get on that better business bureau, consumer protections... etc. from what I understand the california state hammer hits pretty ****ing hard
Terminator03
New member
Absolutely! Someone with better IT skills than me needs to mirror the relevant pages to preserve them as they ARE, not how DT is likely going to modify them!
This seriously sucks though because we asked for a product that no one else produced, and they came through. Now we are discussing class action lawsuits that could bankrupt them. Obviously it’s their fault for cutting corners and not spelling it out in the advertising, but it’s still an unfortunate situation all around. I’m also fairly certain that even if they correctly advertised the facts of construction, most would still buy them anyway! This is where the “what were they thinking?” comment being thrown around in this thread is especially relevant. People would still buy them because they have a problem that needs to be solved, want better performance, etc. Honestly, most of the long tube headers I’ve ever bought (and there have been many) were NOT made of stainless at all. To prevent rust, I would sandblast then either coat them with VHT, or send them for ceramic coating. They lasted fairly well, occasionally needing to be redone, but we are talking primary tubes here, not those tiny air tubes. I know for a fact that they could have easily sourced that tubing in stainless as well since that is what the OEMs use to prevent warranty problems. All they had to do was be honest about what we were buying, (or use stainless) and this discussion wouldn’t exist. Very sad...:nono:
Terminator03
New member
Why wait? You have an ‘03, so this really has no relevance for you, other than maybe the flanges will discolor and rust after several years. They are 3/8” thick though, so will still outlast your truck. If this is out of principle, then I understand, but for us ‘03-‘04 guys, it’s still a decent (and the ONLY) option out there. Besides, if this ends up going the legal route, they may pull the products entirely and you won’t have ANY options... Not only that, but you live in AZ where rust isn’t even an issue. I doubt even the air tubes would rust, but even if they did, would probably last 20 years anyway.
trd_v8_sport
New member
well this sucks. i have the headers in my living room ready to install when i have the time, now im worried and pissed. i live in chicago so this is a huge concern to me. i agree, i would have been ok if they didnt say the headers were all stainless. but since they advertised it that way, i bought these in good faith that i wouldnt have these issues, and to now here that they wont cover installation costs or anything like that? thats som BS. granted, im doing them myself, but still, i bought these thinking that its an incredibly small chance that id have to do these again because of the lifetime warranty. they need to make good on this otherwise i can see this going very wrong for them..
Toyrundrive
New member
not necessarily. They could always admit their mistake and change their design and apologize to the community. Design flaws happen, although this was a bit ridiculous. They probably did it to squeeze a little profit out of the product, although I'm sure if they explained that there would be a $40 increase because of the air injection tubes for the later models everybody would have said, "oh, that makes sense." I doubt $40 or whatever would dissuade people. These ARE really nice headers at an incredible price. Especially considering that they are coming out of California.
They could even produce a new air injection tube to replace the rusty ones and make it a serviceable part with light modification. I am not an engineer or a pro fabricator but If it's really stainless steel under that coating then it shouldn't hurt to tap the stainless and scratch the coating in that one spot... I don't have the redesigned engine so I don't really know how it is interconnected.
If this header situation hurts them, it's because they made a major design flaw. They agreed to make the product. They delivered a product that WILL fail. That's on them.
Just don't be unnecessarily hostile or others might not ever get their prefabbed snorkels or whatever.
ARB doesn't have the greatest reputation for 4th gens anyway. their bumper could easily include side protection for the wiring/washer bottle but they refuse to re-release that bumper, or make an ungodly overpriced add-on, which is more their style anyway... $500 LED trail lights? HA! good one.
What I'm saying is the way this community reacts will determine future support from this and other vendors. But if the vendor sucks, watch 'em sink!
Toyrundrive
New member
I take it you have air injection tubes? call them and reference the issue here and ask them nicely to explain what is up. Ask them what they will do when their mild steel rusts. If it is unused they may be legally obligated to accept a return. If they agree to cover the air injection tubes get it in writing/ email. IDK about Illinois but in this case i don't believe you would have to inform them that you were recording them on a phone call in california. 1 party consent if you suspect them of committing a crime, like fraud, in cali.
since they're off you may be able to get the tubes coated to at least save your own ass.
Marfy
New member
Definitely call. They should know there’s more than one angry person . The more of us the better.
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