***UPDATE***Rear Clunk - Costing a lot more than thought

Have you gotten a second opinion or tried pulling the driveshaft?

Talking about selling over this issue seems extreme if you really do want to keep the 4Runner. I still don't really believe what the first mechanic told you. Especially since you said the problem got better after you greased it and then a year later it has gotten worse, after the initial greasing of the driveshaft has worn off.
 
Hi Unner,
Was busy at work so I haven't got the time to remove the front driveshaft or get the second opinion.
The play is in the front propeller shaft. About 20-30 degrees. Do you think changing the rear or both propeller shafts would be beneficial?
Might remove the front driveshaft this weekend if I get time. I got the u joints replaced last year. That might have helped too. Sometimes I feel the clunk and a thud sometimes I don't.
And to be honest I was looking at my options if I sell my 4runner, but nothing interesting caught my eye, except other 4runners. Lol.

Cheers
 
Hi Guys,
I was getting a rear clunk in my 2004 4runner v8 for a about couple of years . After some research in this forum and you tube videos I greased the driveshaft. But the clunk didnt go away completely. I could still feel it and It came back in about a year so so.
So I went to my mechanic and this is what he messaged me-
The clunk comes from combined in the front diff and the transfercase. there is about 20-30 degree slack to thr front driveshaft rotation before it starts moving the other connected components.
And he said that if I want to get rid of the clunk it will need overhauling or replacing of both front diff and transfer case which will cost upwards of $1000 CAD.

So, here I am right now. I don't know what to do.Would it be worth to get it fixed? I am thinking of selling my 4runner. I don't know how much to ask for it? its got 240xxx kms on it.

What do you guys think?

TIA

I agree with tuborg_15.

If you go underneath and check out all the driveshafts by trying to twist/wiggle them, and any move even a little, it could be the Ujoints that need replacing. They should be unmovable.
 
Update-
So I Got the front propeller shaft removed, put it in central diff lock and drove my 4runner. So smooth ride I forgot how it used to be.
No clunk after breaking, nothing, Nada. Drove as smooth as butter.
BUT-
When the 4runner was on lift, the mechanic hold the front where the front driveshaft goes in the transmission and wiggled it left and right we could see play in both front axle shafts. So he said that we can try and install both new front axles to see if it cures the clunk.
Better than spending several thousand $$.
What do you guys say?

TIA
 
Your mechanic is incompetent. There's no way that both your front diff and tcase are faulty. Now his diagnosis is "maybe front axles"? Find someone who knows how to work on 4wd's.

The fact that you greased the driveshafts and the noise changed is a clear sign. Check the front driveshaft U joints
 
Last edited:
That's good info that pulling the front driveshaft made the problem go away. Now you know it is on the front drivetrain somewhere.

I doubt new CV axles would do much and that would be a pricey job. They spin regardless of the driveshaft being attached, or it being in 2wd or 4wd. So if they were the problem I don't think pulling the driveshaft would have made it go away. I'd take a closer look at the front driveshaft itself, u joints, slip joint, etc.
 
I will also second that CV axles usually don't just go bad. Even cheap aftermarket ones will last as long as the rubber boots are intact.

The odds your tcase is trashed is low too. Unless you've been doing some really dumb stuff like jumping / hopping the truck? Or driving on different sized tires front and rear?

Do you still have the drive shaft off? How does the output shaft coming out the front of the tcase feel? Gear slop / radial play is ok. Up down slop would indicate a bad bearing.

Now that the front driveshaft is off, how do the ujoints feel? Is the one at the tcase side really sloppy and loose compared to the one down at the front diff?

Things it could be:
-Tcase Output bearing
-Driveshaft u-joints or slip yoke.
-front differential (pinion bearing or needle bearings where the Cv's come in)

There is no way you will need both a new diff clam shell assembly and a new tcase. That would indicate some severe abuse by you.
 
Update-
So I Got the front propeller shaft removed, put it in central diff lock and drove my 4runner. So smooth ride I forgot how it used to be.
No clunk after breaking, nothing, Nada. Drove as smooth as butter.
BUT-
When the 4runner was on lift, the mechanic hold the front where the front driveshaft goes in the transmission and wiggled it left and right we could see play in both front axle shafts. So he said that we can try and install both new front axles to see if it cures the clunk.
Better than spending several thousand $$.
What do you guys say?

TIA

This post needs to get a lot more specific. Don't interpret this as me being a jerk, please, I realize not everyone knows all the terminology of everything.

There is no shaft into or out of the transmission that can be seen while the system is assembled. The front and rear propeller shafts mount onto the transfer case (t-case). The transmission's output shaft us buried inside the housing between the t-case and trans. The transmission is bolted to the engine, the t-case is bolted to the transmission. The t-case is in the rearmost position of the chain. rear shaft comes out the back of it, front shaft comes out the offset drop into the front diff.

If there's play in the front output shaft on the t-case, i.e. that it moves L/R, then yes, the bearing that holds that in place is toast. All other diagnostics can stop here. That mount should be completely stationary with only a tad bit of axial (in and out) and wobble (L/R & up/down) play. If it moves a lot then that's what's banging around. I think Randy's fielded this in prior posts.

The front half shafts (between the front diff and the wheels) tend to scream bloody murder if for some bizarre reason they have enough wear in the cages to allow freeplay/slop. There's oodles of contact surfaces in their design that having them wear out to the point of notable rotational slack (where one end is stationary and the other can be freely rotated), prior to them breaking or the bellows being blown out and vomiting grease everywhere... is virtually impossible. I'd ashamed to admit I drove my 3rd gen 40,000km with a half shaft bellows torn wide open and no real amount of grease likely in it. And it didn't make a peep of a noise or have any play in it. It seems entirely unlikely this is the issue.

Rotating the input shaft of the front diff should make the wheels spin. There's no ADD systems on the V8 (full time), so both wheels should spin the same direction when you rotate the input. You should feel there is a tad bit of play available in the diff's input, but just a little little bit. If it feels like the pinion clunks into the ring gear when it changes direction then yeah, that ain't right. The kind of play it should have is like the thickness of a piece of paper, in and out and rotationally.

If it were my rig, after looking at these things and it all seems okay, replace the front drive shaft. The shaft needs to change length slightly as everything moves together. If the extension tube has worn itself a ridge in the sleeve, it'll catch on the ridge, build pressure, then release, as it's compressed (hence, a light clunk under braking). I recall reading that the Toyota shafts have very tight tolerances, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take much to have this happen.

All speculation, though.

If you can get under the truck and take a video of it, that would help us make better wild speculations.
 
This post needs to get a lot more specific. Don't interpret this as me being a jerk, please, I realize not everyone knows all the terminology of everything.

There is no shaft into or out of the transmission that can be seen while the system is assembled. The front and rear propeller shafts mount onto the transfer case (t-case). The transmission's output shaft us buried inside the housing between the t-case and trans. The transmission is bolted to the engine, the t-case is bolted to the transmission. The t-case is in the rearmost position of the chain. rear shaft comes out the back of it, front shaft comes out the offset drop into the front diff.

If there's play in the front output shaft on the t-case, i.e. that it moves L/R, then yes, the bearing that holds that in place is toast. All other diagnostics can stop here. That mount should be completely stationary with only a tad bit of axial (in and out) and wobble (L/R & up/down) play. If it moves a lot then that's what's banging around. I think Randy's fielded this in prior posts.

The front half shafts (between the front diff and the wheels) tend to scream bloody murder if for some bizarre reason they have enough wear in the cages to allow freeplay/slop. There's oodles of contact surfaces in their design that having them wear out to the point of notable rotational slack (where one end is stationary and the other can be freely rotated), prior to them breaking or the bellows being blown out and vomiting grease everywhere... is virtually impossible. I'd ashamed to admit I drove my 3rd gen 40,000km with a half shaft bellows torn wide open and no real amount of grease likely in it. And it didn't make a peep of a noise or have any play in it. It seems entirely unlikely this is the issue.

Rotating the input shaft of the front diff should make the wheels spin. There's no ADD systems on the V8 (full time), so both wheels should spin the same direction when you rotate the input. You should feel there is a tad bit of play available in the diff's input, but just a little little bit. If it feels like the pinion clunks into the ring gear when it changes direction then yeah, that ain't right. The kind of play it should have is like the thickness of a piece of paper, in and out and rotationally.

If it were my rig, after looking at these things and it all seems okay, replace the front drive shaft. The shaft needs to change length slightly as everything moves together. If the extension tube has worn itself a ridge in the sleeve, it'll catch on the ridge, build pressure, then release, as it's compressed (hence, a light clunk under braking). I recall reading that the Toyota shafts have very tight tolerances, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take much to have this happen.

All speculation, though.

If you can get under the truck and take a video of it, that would help us make better wild speculations.

Yes, I should have made a video of it when my 4runner was on the lift and the mechanic was rotating the metal where the front of the front propeller shaft is connected. Would've been easy to understand. Ill try to make a video tonight when I get home. I have attached a pic( credit-backlitcoyote) showing which part I am referring to. Highlighted in red. There was a play of about 20-25 degrees. I will post a video as well.

IMG_0724 copy by https://www.flickr.com/photos/161463459@N03/
 
I will also second that CV axles usually don't just go bad. Even cheap aftermarket ones will last as long as the rubber boots are intact.

The odds your tcase is trashed is low too. Unless you've been doing some really dumb stuff like jumping / hopping the truck? Or driving on different sized tires front and rear?

Do you still have the drive shaft off? How does the output shaft coming out the front of the tcase feel? Gear slop / radial play is ok. Up down slop would indicate a bad bearing.

Now that the front driveshaft is off, how do the ujoints feel? Is the one at the tcase side really sloppy and loose compared to the one down at the front diff?

Things it could be:
-Tcase Output bearing
-Driveshaft u-joints or slip yoke.
-front differential (pinion bearing or needle bearings where the Cv's come in)

There is no way you will need both a new diff clam shell assembly and a new tcase. That would indicate some severe abuse by you.

Hi,
I have never off roaded. Never abused my runner. And always ran same size tires.
The driveshaft is back on the 4runner now but it looked ok from both ends. If there was something wrong with the driveshaft there wouldn't be play in the front diff.

Thats what I am concerned with. I will post a video of the play in the front diff soon so that you all can see what's wrong with it. I.will try and post it today.

Thanks
 
This post needs to get a lot more specific. Don't interpret this as me being a jerk, please, I realize not everyone knows all the terminology of everything.

There is no shaft into or out of the transmission that can be seen while the system is assembled. The front and rear propeller shafts mount onto the transfer case (t-case). The transmission's output shaft us buried inside the housing between the t-case and trans. The transmission is bolted to the engine, the t-case is bolted to the transmission. The t-case is in the rearmost position of the chain. rear shaft comes out the back of it, front shaft comes out the offset drop into the front diff.

If there's play in the front output shaft on the t-case, i.e. that it moves L/R, then yes, the bearing that holds that in place is toast. All other diagnostics can stop here. That mount should be completely stationary with only a tad bit of axial (in and out) and wobble (L/R & up/down) play. If it moves a lot then that's what's banging around. I think Randy's fielded this in prior posts.

The front half shafts (between the front diff and the wheels) tend to scream bloody murder if for some bizarre reason they have enough wear in the cages to allow freeplay/slop. There's oodles of contact surfaces in their design that having them wear out to the point of notable rotational slack (where one end is stationary and the other can be freely rotated), prior to them breaking or the bellows being blown out and vomiting grease everywhere... is virtually impossible. I'd ashamed to admit I drove my 3rd gen 40,000km with a half shaft bellows torn wide open and no real amount of grease likely in it. And it didn't make a peep of a noise or have any play in it. It seems entirely unlikely this is the issue.

Rotating the input shaft of the front diff should make the wheels spin. There's no ADD systems on the V8 (full time), so both wheels should spin the same direction when you rotate the input. You should feel there is a tad bit of play available in the diff's input, but just a little little bit. If it feels like the pinion clunks into the ring gear when it changes direction then yeah, that ain't right. The kind of play it should have is like the thickness of a piece of paper, in and out and rotationally.

If it were my rig, after looking at these things and it all seems okay, replace the front drive shaft. The shaft needs to change length slightly as everything moves together. If the extension tube has worn itself a ridge in the sleeve, it'll catch on the ridge, build pressure, then release, as it's compressed (hence, a light clunk under braking). I recall reading that the Toyota shafts have very tight tolerances, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take much to have this happen.

All speculation, though.

If you can get under the truck and take a video of it, that would help us make better wild speculations.


Hi
Here's a video I made of the front drivehshaft-
2004 4runner clunk in propeller shaft - YouTube
 
Hi
Here's a video I made of the front drivehshaft-
2004 4runner clunk in propeller shaft - YouTube

Whaaaooo... yeah, that's alotta wiggle there.

What's the situation with the front diff's fluid? Have you drained it yet to see if it's got a fancy metal-coat sheen?

If it vomits out chunks of spider gear, you've found the problem.

Because it appears that the half-shafts (diff to the wheels) are remaining stationary when the input shaft is rotated back and forth on its free-play; and if that's true, I'd estimate the problem is localized inside the front diff. Spider gears are toast, or the ring gear and pinion aren't engaging correctly anymore, can be caused by the crush sleeve getting... well... crushed. I'm sure there's other things that can cause that sort of free play, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can jump in as well.

The fluid condition in the transfer case... Ya know, I just have a hard time thinking something could go wrong so badly to make that sort of dramatic free play in the transfer case and it would still run smoothly (in 2WD with the front driveshaft removed). With the full time 4WD, it's all gotta spin, so I would have assumed if something got ground up, it'd let ya know with a lot of racket when you drive it.

Thanks for posting a video. I think the condition of the diff fluid is the only thing that could confirm definitely if the front diff is definitely blown up without doing any more exploratory surgery.

I'm certain there's some Toyota 4x4 exclusive shops around Calgary that would know in a moment what the issue is. It really pays to have a guy who knows specifically about this particular vehicle.
 
Yes. But the thing is I don't know the total cost of repair till the mechanic opens the T-case or front diff and check out the worn parts.
It would be good if I know the cost of repair first, instead go for it and next thing I know, I am spending 4k-5k or more on it. That's my main concern here.

The only other way is getting other quotes from different mechanics. That way you'll know if this one is guessing or is onto something.

But, sometimes that's the only way -- open her up and see. Then you can decline the repair if it's too much, but you'll pay for labor to diagnose.
 
From what I see in the video, it's the backlash on the front diff. Somehow, thru either lack of maintenance or excessive abuse (either by you or the PO owner), the backlash has opened up the spacing between the ring and pinion gear. I'd either get one used out of a local upull or buy a replacement from ECGS.


East Coast Gear Supply
 
From what I see in the video, it's the backlash on the front diff. Somehow, thru either lack of maintenance or excessive abuse (either by you or the PO owner), the backlash has opened up the spacing between the ring and pinion gear. I'd either get one used out of a local upull or buy a replacement from ECGS.


East Coast Gear Supply

car-part.com lists 5x front diffs in Calgary, and many more around Alberta

Thanks
 
Hi,
I was searching car-part.com for the front diff but couldn't see anything. What should I put.in the search? Diff carrier or ?

TIA

I used "Carrier (see also Differential)" to get a list of results.

For whatever reason, "Differential" doesn't find anything. I guess in the parts system it may think of the diff as the ring and spiders, and its frame, etc. But the housing assembly is the carrier?

Speculation anyway.

Whenever I've shopped wreckers for parts, calling all of them saves me a tonne of money. One place quoted me $1300 for a new trans. Paid $600 somewhere else. Throttle body: $450 at one place... showed up and paid $100 for it somewhere else.

Prices can vary wildly and some outfits think they have gold.
 
After watching the video I went out and checked my front drive shaft "slop" and it's not too far off what his showed. I have an '03 V8 AWD, not too worried about the "slop" if it's not good it will show up in future, but no problems now that I can tell.
 

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