V6 engine replacement vs head gasket repair ???

[zguy1]

Hi everyone.

About a week ago I found out that my 2008 V6 with around 296k miles has a blown head gasket. I noticed that I was loosing coolant over the past few months. Aside from the coolant loss, the truck seemed to run fine no noticeable issues or codes. I could not find a drop of coolant anywhere on the truck except for a single spot of crust near the thermostat housing. I confirmed the head gasket leak by pressurizing the cooling system and proceeded to look in each of the cylinders for coolant leaking in with an inspection camera. Both cylinders 6 and 4 are leaking.

At this point it looks like I have several options...
1) Sell the truck as is
2) Fix the head gaskets
3) Replace the motor with a used one.

I am almost tempted to try option 2 myself. However, I am pretty sure this is the most labor intensive option. Option 3 is probably the most expensive but possibly least riskiest option if a good used motor can be had. Option 3 is probably not possible for me to do simply for not having a lift or hoist.


I would like to hear what what you guys have to say...



EDITED: 12/28/22
- I ended up replacing the head gaskets. See post #135 for a summary of information, parts and tools that I used for this repair.

 

[daprotege5]

if you can wrench the head gasket job is pretty straight forward. alot of detail but simple cause theirs plenty of room compared to most cars. If you've had it for a while and know what condition you've kept the motor in why not just replace the head gaskets on this one, instead of finding something you have no clue what kind of conditon previous owner treated it.

 

[zguy1]

if you can wrench the head gasket job is pretty straight forward. alot of detail but simple cause theirs plenty of room compared to most cars. If you've had it for a while and know what condition you've kept the motor in why not just replace the head gaskets on this one, instead of finding something you have no clue what kind of conditon previous owner treated it.

I have considered doing this myself but wasn’t sure what was best choice. I can wrench but this will be probably the most detailed job I have ever taken on.

Even if I take this on, what other things should I check or change while in there?

I was also wondering about my strategy for the exhaust manifolds. I assume I should leave them bolted to the heads until they are out of the car to avoid breaking a stud due to rust issues?

Also, should I get the heads checked by a machine shop? Should I replace any seals or have them cleaned?

Thanks

 

[phatcheeks]

I have considered doing this myself but wasn’t sure what was best choice. I can wrench but this will be probably the most detailed job I have ever taken on.

Even if I take this on, what other things should I check or change while in there?

I was also wondering about my strategy for the exhaust manifolds. I assume I should leave them bolted to the heads until they are out of the car to avoid breaking a stud due to rust issues?

Also, should I get the heads checked by a machine shop? Should I replace any seals or have them cleaned?

Thanks

At your mileage since you are opening everything up I would change all seals and even replace the timing chains. Its a good idea to get the heads machined as well since its out already.
I was going to do this on mine as well and purchased all the parts and tools needed but with a 1.5 year old and me needing my car everyday I found a local mechanic who works out his garage to do it for 2k which I thought was a good deal considering the amount of work that goes into it.

Check out this video. Its almost a step by step on how to do it. There are also lots of videos on the 1grfe motor on youtube.

2006 Toyota Tundra 1GR-FE 4.0 COMPLETE HEAD GASKET REPLACEMENT STEP BY STEP 209-305-1672 - YouTube

 

[rumfoord]

Had this happen a few years ago and had the same thoughts, went with number 2 and had the head gaskets replaced by a shop, also had it machined (probably a good idea).

Trying to sell it in that condition I just figured would be tough and didn't want to deal with that or being underhanded by sticking someone with that issue.

Engine replacement is a little scary as you could end up encountering the same issue or even others.

I know the vehicle was well maintained and really liked it so figured was the most logical choice for me. Was a good chunk of change but have not once regretted the decision and still love driving the vehicle.

 

[zguy1]

At your mileage since you are opening everything up I would change all seals and even replace the timing chains. Its a good idea to get the heads machined as well since its out already.
I was going to do this on mine as well and purchased all the parts and tools needed but with a 1.5 year old and me needing my car everyday I found a local mechanic who works out his garage to do it for 2k which I thought was a good deal considering the amount of work that goes into it.

Check out this video. Its almost a step by step on how to do it. There are also lots of videos on the 1grfe motor on youtube.

2006 Toyota Tundra 1GR-FE 4.0 COMPLETE HEAD GASKET REPLACEMENT STEP BY STEP 209-305-1672 - YouTube

Thanks, I found this video a few days ago. It's the best one I found so far. I am still wondering what special tools are needed if any. I am not looking forward to sealing the timing cover or the front part of the oil pan since I would not be removing it. I am also wondering if installing the cams are tricky in practice as I have never done that before.

Had this happen a few years ago and had the same thoughts, went with number 2 and had the head gaskets replaced by a shop, also had it machined (probably a good idea).

Trying to sell it in that condition I just figured would be tough and didn't want to deal with that or being underhanded by sticking someone with that issue.

Engine replacement is a little scary as you could end up encountering the same issue or even others.

I know the vehicle was well maintained and really liked it so figured was the most logical choice for me. Was a good chunk of change but have not once regretted the decision and still love driving the vehicle.

I am in the Chicagoland area and would need to find a good or trust worthy machine shop to bring the heads to if I decide to get them checked. I would like to buy a newer 4Runner but I am not in a position to do that this year. My next one will be a 5th get TRD pro in green if I can find one for the right price.

 

[lidstrom]

I did this about 2 years ago, all by myself as someone isn’t super techy.

The hardest part was definitely installing the timing cover, there is an o-ring on the bottom that falls out super easy. Would recommend installing a little bit of gasket maker on that o-ring and letting it dry before doing the whole thing.

The cams weren’t too difficult. I left the top chains on and lifted both sets of cams off, preventing misalignment. Just have to keep track of the buckets, they need to go back on the correct spot.

Only other recommendation is to keep the exhaust headers on when you take off the heads, just disconnect the pipes down stream. This allowed me to heat up the header nuts, I didn’t break a single one.

The only special tool you need is the head bolt tool: https://a.co/d/dy0d6A6

I would consider getting one of the flexible head radiator clamp tools:
https://a.co/d/d6EUkHI

Parts:
Water pump: More Information for AISIN WPT802
Gasket kit: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272981676847
Toyota FIPG: Amazon.com: Genuine Seal Packing (FIPG) 103 Liquid Oil Pan gasket 0029500103 : Automotive
Head bolts (x16): #90910-02162

Here’s a dump of what I used / needed when I did it:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/174451-new-member-need-help-p304-misfire.html
Timing chain stretch: '07 4Runner
https://youtu.be/pIbeoMpGxEc
https://youtu.be/UR50da0sDOc
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/199408-head-gasket-repair-photos.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGq72QGa-Bk
http://4runnerclub.com/i/4r_files/...fe/enginemechanical/engineunit_reassembly.pdf
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?s...nner.org/showthread.php?t=201498&share_type=t

 

[zguy1]

I did this about 2 years ago, all by myself as someone isn’t super techy.

The hardest part was definitely installing the timing cover, there is an o-ring on the bottom that falls out super easy. Would recommend installing a little bit of gasket maker on that o-ring and letting it dry before doing the whole thing.

The cams weren’t too difficult. I left the top chains on and lifted both sets of cams off, preventing misalignment. Just have to keep track of the buckets, they need to go back on the correct spot.

Only other recommendation is to keep the exhaust headers on when you take off the heads, just disconnect the pipes down stream. This allowed me to heat up the header nuts, I didn’t break a single one.

The only special tool you need is the head bolt tool: https://a.co/d/dy0d6A6

I would consider getting one of the flexible head radiator clamp tools:
https://a.co/d/d6EUkHI

Parts:
Water pump: More Information for AISIN WPT802
Gasket kit: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/272981676847
Toyota FIPG: Amazon.com: Genuine Seal Packing (FIPG) 103 Liquid Oil Pan gasket 0029500103 : Automotive
Head bolts (x16): #90910-02162

Here’s a dump of what I used / needed when I did it:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/174451-new-member-need-help-p304-misfire.html
Timing chain stretch: '07 4Runner
https://youtu.be/pIbeoMpGxEc
https://youtu.be/UR50da0sDOc
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/199408-head-gasket-repair-photos.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGq72QGa-Bk
http://4runnerclub.com/i/4r_files/...fe/enginemechanical/engineunit_reassembly.pdf
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?s...nner.org/showthread.php?t=201498&share_type=t

Sorry for the delay in responding. I wanted to look at all of the information that everyone has provided so far before asking more questions. I really think I am going to tackle this job.

It seems like some folks suggest replacing the timing chain but I might just disassemble the motor first before changing any chains, guides or tensioners. I am guessing this is debatable.

Some of the links attached in the prior post are no longer active but I the rest were very helpful.

I plan on removing on cams together to avoid removing the bolts from the cams themselves as those seem to be very tight.

The following items I am still a little unsure about.

1) Head bolt tool
- I found the CTA tools head bolt tool but I want to be sure that will fit well as I do not want to round out any head bolts. Any reason not to use this one? Anyone use the Toyota tool, 09013-7C310?

2) Gasket sealer
- Regarding sealing the front timing cover and front part of the oil pan. Is the Toyota FIPG sufficient for both?

3) Replacement head gaskets and seals for timing cover and oil pickup
- Are all of these gaskets part of one kit? If so, does anyone have a part number handy?

4) Head studs
- It seems like the consensus is to replace them. I plan to just go with the OEM ones.

5) Checking heads
- My goal is to find a reputable local machine shop here in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. Once I do, am I just asking for them to check and clean up with heads or do I need to be more specific in what I want? Also, should I attempt to remove the exhaust manifolds prior to bringing them to he machine shop or should I have them do it? I am in a rust belt state.

6) Water pump and thermostat
- I will most likely replace these but will wait for disassembly to check first. I will most likely use the ASIN version for both from Rock Auto.

7) Valve adjustment and check
- Is this a concern? If the machine shop does clean up and resurface the heads will this cause an issue with clearance?

thanks!

 

[phatcheeks]

1) Head bolt tool
- I found the CTA tools head bolt tool but I want to be sure that will fit well as I do not want to round out any head bolts. Any reason not to use this one? Anyone use the Toyota tool, 09013-7C310?
I used the snap-on version. Just make sure its a good quality tool because those bolts are on tight. Id use either toyota or snap on. Not sure about CTA quality.

2) Gasket sealer
- Regarding sealing the front timing cover and front part of the oil pan. Is the Toyota FIPG sufficient for both?
I believe its the same. Aisin sells a FIGP which i believe is the same as the toyota one. Its good for timing cover and valve cover.

3) Replacement head gaskets and seals for timing cover and oil pickup
- Are all of these gaskets part of one kit? If so, does anyone have a part number handy?
04112-31720 is what I used.


4) Head studs
- It seems like the consensus is to replace them. I plan to just go with the OEM ones.
I used fel-pro but OEM is always the best.

 

[zguy1]

1) Head bolt tool
- I found the CTA tools head bolt tool but I want to be sure that will fit well as I do not want to round out any head bolts. Any reason not to use this one? Anyone use the Toyota tool, 09013-7C310?
I used the snap-on version. Just make sure its a good quality tool because those bolts are on tight. Id use either toyota or snap on. Not sure about CTA quality.

2) Gasket sealer
- Regarding sealing the front timing cover and front part of the oil pan. Is the Toyota FIPG sufficient for both?
I believe its the same. Aisin sells a FIGP which i believe is the same as the toyota one. Its good for timing cover and valve cover.

3) Replacement head gaskets and seals for timing cover and oil pickup
- Are all of these gaskets part of one kit? If so, does anyone have a part number handy?
04112-31720 is what I used.


4) Head studs
- It seems like the consensus is to replace them. I plan to just go with the OEM ones.
I used fel-pro but OEM is always the best.

Thanks for the info! I was looking at the service manual and it mentions using seal packing when installing the new head gasket. Unless I am missing something, I don't recall that being mentioned in any videos or threads that I read. Am I missing something?

1GR-FE ENGINE MECHANICAL – CYLINDER HEAD

 

[daprotege5]

Thanks for the info! I was looking at the service manual and it mentions using seal packing when installing the new head gasket. Unless I am missing something, I don't recall that being mentioned in any videos or threads that I read. Am I missing something?

1GR-FE ENGINE MECHANICAL – CYLINDER HEAD

on some info it says to put a little on the front where the cams lay, but most people don't. i didn't when i installed my new engine.

 

[lidstrom]

I used the exact same Toyota FIPG on the head gasket as I did the timing cover. You aren’t doing the whole gasket, it’s just a tiny bit towards the front on both sides.

Here is the gasket kit I used. Had everything that was needed plus some small extras.
2003-2009 Toyota Valve Grind Gasket Kit 04112-31720 | Toyota Parts

The gasket kit comes with valve seals, which I had the shop replace and the total with the clean, resurface, and valve seals came to $318. Who knows if it was needed but I did it anyways.

I was able to get the headers off no issue after soaking them in pb-blaster and then some heat. I didn’t attempt without any of that, so who knows if it was needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zguy1]

I used the exact same Toyota FIPG on the head gasket as I did the timing cover. You aren’t doing the whole gasket, it’s just a tiny bit towards the front on both sides.

Here is the gasket kit I used. Had everything that was needed plus some small extras.
2003-2009 Toyota Valve Grind Gasket Kit 04112-31720 | Toyota Parts

The gasket kit comes with valve seals, which I had the shop replace and the total with the clean, resurface, and valve seals came to $318. Who knows if it was needed but I did it anyways.

I was able to get the headers off no issue after soaking them in pb-blaster and then some heat. I didn’t attempt without any of that, so who knows if it was needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks. That helps. I checked my local dealer and the kit is over $400. I've decided to just replace the head gaskets and seals when doing the job. Plus new head bolts. I do not plan to touch the chains, tensioners or anything else unless something looks problematic once I get everything apart. I will replace the water pump and thermostat when putting everything back together. I also spoke to a Toyota tech at my local dealer and he said they would only replace the gaskets and head bolts plus reseal everything. He said with that kind of mileage he wouldn't change anything else that wasn't broke. He actually recommended replacing the motor instead of doing the head gaskets. Since I plan to do the work myself I will give the head gaskets a try.

I still need to find a local reputable shop here in the Chicagoland area. I plan to call a local Corvette speed shop on Monday and see if they can recommend a place.

 

[gaber6]

Option 2 for sure.

I did mine at 150k miles and is now at 225 with no problem other than the generic water pump and thermostat that just failed last month in 115 degree heat. I went oem this time.

All OEM parts except one cam timing sensor on one bank that I broke on install and it's holding up.

Be very careful to clean out the head bolts to seat the tool and you'll be fine. I almost rounded one.

I kept my original chain and guides as my engine looked new inside and it all still lined up exactly.

I used AutoZone.com for the repair manuals and torque specs and YouTube for other ideas.

Consider getting a new exhaust manifold with cats if you are going this far and plan on keeping it for another 200k miles.

Best of luck!

 

[zguy1]

I appreciate all the information from everyone so far. It's been helpful.

I started working on the truck yesterday evening. I am moving pretty slow so far. I am working on the intake and I am having a hard time with several of the connectors in back of the intake. All of the electrical connections, vacuum lines and bolts are out. I'm just fighting these remaining two connectors in the back. I'm just tempted to break them.

Here is one of the clips...

[/IMG]

Here is the other one. I believe there was one similar to this type that I removed already and that one separated where the arrow labeled as "1" is pointing too.

I took a screenshot of one of the videos I am referencing but they don't mention how to remove those.

My FSM doesn't even mention those connections. I wonder if I just have a crappy one.


UPDATE: I was able to get the intake off. Ended up breaking the big plastic clip in the 1st picture that hold the two heater hoses.

 

[MikeinNH67]

A bit of PB blaster or similar goes a long ways on these things. Cleans out the dirt and makes them slide easier. Or you could break them then zip tie later.

 

[zguy1]

So I made some more progress tonight. I was able to remove the lower intake and the passenger side valve cover. It's definitely slow going for me. I am trying to take pictures of everything so that I can figure out where everything goes when I put it back. I also loosened the harmonic balancer bolt by bump starting the truck while using a breaker bar. This was a bit sketchy but it turned out to be very easy.

This is where I ended up tonight. I got stuck on trying to remove the clips that are noted with the 2 red arrows in the bottom of the picture.

[/IMG]

A close up of one of the clips on the power steering pump. I am tempted to break that off.

[/IMG]

My intake looks pretty greasy and oily. Is that normal for a truck with almost 300k miles?

[/IMG]

 

[Heather]

I have a ?. Ok so apparently I like hunting deer but only with my truck and not a gun. Anyhow, so I used a tree,tractor,and chain to straighten the frame a bit in order to get the new headlights in. Accomplished. Then after roughly 800 miles I heard this knocking sound from inside the cab. I pulled over got out and immediately shut off the truck. I narrowed it down to the front passenger side of the truck. Pulled the top end to find that the lobes on the cam on the passenger side were making contact with the underside of the cover housing. So how do I get it right? I'm not sure why eventually it started making contact. Do I just need to replace the cam and bearings and do the timing and pump on top of it considering it's right at 250,000 miles? Should I be concerned of any further damage? Like valves or anything? This is the deepest I've ever had to break down an engine. And it's my only vehicle, but I love her. Help!!!?

 

[zguy1]

Heather

Not sure if I can help. Never heard of anything like that. With a tree, tractor and a chain, it sounds like you got a lot of stuff going on. I would suggest starting a new thread.

 

[lidstrom]

The cars recirculate the breather tube from the valve covers into the intake, so I believe that’s why it looks like that. Can’t remember exactly what mine looked like.

Those clips are definitely a PITA. I think I stuck a screw driver or pick into them and was able to pull them off.

Looking good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk