V8 4runner with low compression

[rfe1dotcom]

Greetings Toyota Aficionado's!

I have a BMW/Mercedes shop in Scottsdale, AZ and I have to confess I have never worked on Toyota's...My daughter decided to buy a used 4 runner off eBay that matched her exact color combination and specs - and she did. The 2003 Limited 4 runner V8 came in on a carrier looking pretty. It started right up, drove fine. She put about 250 miles on it when she noticed a little hesitation. Put another 20 miles on it and the check engine light started flashing. She brought it to "daddy's shop". My first diagnostic showed a P0310 missfire in Cylinder 1. I went the easy way, new plugs and coils and re-set. Instant check engine light again - flashing, car runs rough, but runs and drives if needed...Pressure test - Cylinder 1, maybe barely pushing 20 - 30 Psi...Everything else healthy pressure. Car has 93 K miles on it, dealer maintenance including timing belt at 91K. No white smoke, no contamination of oil...What do you guys suggest at this point? Stuck/Bent valve? I don't want to swap engines because this one is not that sick in my opinion...Any input greatly appreciated!

 

[satanos6668280]

Any valve train noise? The valve cover is not that hard to pull to check for a stuck valve or broken spring. Always a leakdown test also.is the plug black?

 

[rfe1dotcom]

No valvetrain noise, the plug looks good.

 

[satanos6668280]

I would definitely do a leak down test to see where that air is going

 

[V8Man]

I bought a 2003 knowing it had an oil pressure problem. These V8's run with only 5lbs of oil pressure at idle. At idle the oil light flickered. I got it cheaper than a wrecked one and swapped my engine and transmission out of my totaled one.
The Carfax showed the first owner leased it and no service or oil changes. The original dealer then sold it at 89,000 miles sold it without changing the timing belt. The new owners ran it to 154,000 miles and changed the oil every 3 to 4 thousand miles. The oil pickup screen, and lower pan was completely sludged. I dropped the lower pan and cleaned everything up. I was driving it for a week before I did a timing belt. Everything was great. No valve train or lower end noise. Then the bolt holding the cam pulley broke. I am guessing the sludge in the upper end gummed something up. So I would check under the valve cover, then the lower pan too. My guess is a bent valve.

 

[rfe1dotcom]

Do you guys know if there is a central database where Toyota can access service records on the vehicle? I tried my local Toyota and they mentioned that their system only checks their database...I would like to see if the odometer reading from the last known service matches the number on the car.

 

[DC runner]

There is no such things as a centralized service database. Toyota only tracks service done at Toyota dealerships and that only started sometime in the last decade.

That said, you can go to the Toyota website and sign up as an owner. Input the VIN and see what has been done by Toyota. As far as mileage, pull a carfax, that is as close as you will get to being able to determine if the mileage was tampered with.

That said, it is EXCEPTIONALLY difficult to tinker with mileage on these cars. Not saying it can't happen, but that data is stored in a secure part of the cars ECU and does not allow for external writing or accessing of the data. You would almost have to switch the ECM or somehow disable the speed mileage sensor, both of which would have tale tell signs.


That said, as someone who has bought cars via ebay; you never buy sight unseen. Never have is shipped, always fly to meet it and do one final inspection before you take delivery.

If you can prove what is considered extreme or large major mechanical damage was present BEFORE purchase and was not disclosed, EBAY has a buyer protection program. You own a shop and I am assuming an ASE or equivalent certified mechanic if you own a shop.

DO not drive the car ANYMORE and start to carefully diagnose the issues. Have your daughter contact EBAY once you come to the conclusion that the vehicle was likely shipped with a major mechanical issue that was not disclosed. Ebay will start a process and investigate.

 

[rfe1dotcom]

We pulled a Carfax and it checked out fine. My son-in-law flew to Florida and saw the vehicle and test drove it before paying. eBay's insurance service only applies to vehicles that are newer than 10 years. The reason I was trying to see if the miles are correct is exactly that - my only way out would be to prove odometer fraud.

 

[rfe1dotcom]

Ok - so today they brought in the 4Runner to the shop on a tow truck. Of course, the "issue" just got more interesting. I noticed the tow truck operator fumbling a little too long with the car outside and I checked with him. He mentioned the car started fine and drove up on the tow truck - but now it seemed to have a weak battery because it didn't start. He tried his jump box, but the starter kept making the "click" "click" noise not turning the engine - to me, that is the sound of the THE END, basically the engine locked up. I didn't try to turn it manually tonight, but I will in the morning. What is odd is the starter, it will no longer click or anything when you give it power. It's almost as if there is a short in the system - if you hook up the battery terminals to the battery, there is no power. If you remove the terminals, the battery shows normal voltage? Is there a fusible link in the 4 runner on the terminal - or this is a sign of starter failure also?

 

[satanos6668280]

Check for power in the fuse box and be sure the body and engine grounds are clean and tight

 

[MikeInNH]

We pulled a Carfax and it checked out fine.

Just because Carfax checked out fine...doesn't mean it is. By carfax's own admission they can only collect less then 20% of all possible accidents and repairs. In fact some analysis think that number is closer to 5% If carfax says there's a problem...then there probably is one...but the problem with carfax is when they say there ISN'T an issue. Their ability on getting it right lies somewhere between 5% and 20% accuracy....that's damn low if you ask me.

 

[MikeInNH]

but the starter kept making the "click" "click" noise not turning the engine - to me, that is the sound of the THE END, basically the engine locked up.

I wouldn't go jumping to conclusions just yet....There are several possibilities besides an engine locked up.

. Not a good connection connection from jumper cables.
. Not good jumper cables.
. Bad battery (one that won't take a charge).
. Bad starter.

just to name a few.

 

[DC runner]

Yea, more than once I have tried to jump start a SUV and gotten nothing. Usually a bad connection.

As for the starter. I discovered just recently when my battery went south, that our Runners appear to have under voltage protection on the starter. Since our runners have a "hold" ability with the starter it appears to not even attempt to engage the starter if the battery is below min power requirement. \


The 4runner will automatically hold the starter for 20 seconds, to try and start it. Usually is catches immediately, but you don't have to keep the key turned.

When my battery went south, it was reading 11.4-11.6 volts. Just under the 12.4-12.6 it should use. When I went to start the car, nothing. There was no click, no slow starter roll.

The 4runner appears to not even attempt a start. I have a v8, so no idea if the v6 is the same.

 

[Toivul]

Leak Down Test

I'd be interested in your leak down test numbers. The engine in my 2003 just dropped a cylinder with bad scoring. I've done leak down tests on two junkyard motors with right around 100K on the them and the results weren't what I would consider good. Anywhere from 2% to 55%. I borescoped all cylinders and found more scoring.

For grins I did a leak down test on my motor with 214k on it and got worse results but not by much.

I also found that almost every cylinder had exhaust valve leaks.

 

[CXS]

Do you guys know if there is a central database where Toyota can access service records on the vehicle? I tried my local Toyota and they mentioned that their system only checks their database...I would like to see if the odometer reading from the last known service matches the number on the car.

The Toyota Owners Website would have a record of service done at any Toyota dealer. It's only good I'd the PO used Toyota for service but should help see what mileage records they do have.

Toyota Owners Official Web Site