V8 fuel econ questions....

[Schmatt]

Im looking into getting a 4Runner, but it sounds like 15-17 mpg is pretty typical for a V8 4x4. I was thinking of a few things to improve the economy (even 1 or 2 mpg helps) and wanted to see if anyone has done these things.....

1. Electric fan conversion.....even GM has done away with the crank powered fan in favor of the electric fan.....more HP, better mileage...quieter. Probably easy to do also. I was kinda surprised to see the 4Runner is behind in this aspect....

2. Any computer chips or programs that can be uploaded to pick up mileage?

3. It also seems that the full time 4x4 is a mileage killer as well.....Has anyone figured out a way to get the 4x4 V8 to run in 2x4? I assume that the transfer case is the only different piece between the V6 4x4 and the V8 4x4, so maybe someone with a little ingenuity could come up with a solution......God forbid anyone would want to do a half decent doughnut with one of these things....

Intake and exhaust, of course, but that's an easy one...

Just thinking out loud......Im coming from a 50 mpg VW TDI, and thinking that 15 mpg is pretty pathetic.

Anyone routinely break 20 mpg (hand calculated) with a V8 4x4? Tips?

 

[Ducman]

Happy V8 Owner

If 15-17 mixed city/highway mpg is not gonna cut it for you, you probably shouldn't get one.

That being said...

I did an electric fan conversion on my 302 Mustang and it picked up 1 mpg easy and a nice little bit of torque. I gotta think it would help on the 4Runner too (although I haven't done it)

Exhaust and intake may gain you another 1 mpg but I wouldn't' count on much more than that.

One thing I have noticed is that gas milage on the V8 really drops off after 60 mph.

I have gotten 23 mpg highway going 60 mph (200 mile trip), but never above 20mpg when going 70 mph (same 200 mile trip).

I typically get around 14-15 mpg when driving around town (100% city &winter fuel).

 

[Climb14er]

Just thinking out loud......Im coming from a 50 mpg VW TDI, and thinking that 15 mpg is pretty pathetic.

My recommendation is to stay away from the V8 4Runner.

I have an '07 V8 Sport and if you're coming from 50mpg and wanting to buy a 4Runner that gets 15mpg in city driving, or lower, especially when using winter blend 10% ethanol, you will not like the comparatively expensive fill ups.

It's your money but I think you've already answered the question re: relatively low mpg yourself.

For me, a V8 that gets the mpg of the 4Runner, I'm satisfied with the purchase. :

Oh... BTW, how do you like your VW? Is that the turbo charged diesel? Any problems? Did you get the manual tranny?

That's a vehicle I'm looking at re: a higher mileage commuter car.

 

[Schmatt]

I am very aware of the mileage difference.....I am just mostly annoyed with Toyota because they seem to be a half-decade behind when it comes to fuel economy technology in the 4runner. The 4runner gets the same mileage as a larger, more powerful, heavier Tahoe. Of course you cannot compare the build quality, but it is aggravating to think that Toyota is behind GM in this aspect. Just think.....if Toyota did cylinder deactivation, electric fans, part time 4x4 and a few other small things, the 4runner could be getting 15% or better mileage.

I may wait for the Jeep GC CRD to come down in price, but then you are still stuck with a Jeep......maybe build quality is better now, I dunno.

As far as the TDI goes.....Yes, it is a turbo diesel, 5 speed. From the factory, it made 90HP and 155 ft lb. I spent $200 on injectors and $300 on tuning and now it makes 130 HP and 250 ft lb...and the mileage actually improved (assuming I don't use the power all the time). My best tank was just shy of 51 mpg. It is great to drive, but it is a car...no dirt roads or hauling stuff, etc. I want to have my cake and eat it too. I can afford the fuel, no problem, but I am just pissed with our government, automakers, public, etc because we have such poor choices when it comes to buying vehicles like this. The turbo diesel would be an excellent fit with the 4runner...

Maybe Ill have to do with a 4runner what I did with my Suzuki Sidekick......put a diesel engine in it.

 

[Climb14er]

I want to have my cake and eat it too. I can afford the fuel, no problem, but I am just pissed with our government, automakers, public, etc because we have such poor choices when it comes to buying vehicles like this. The turbo diesel would be an excellent fit with the 4runner...

Maybe Ill have to do with a 4runner what I did with my Suzuki Sidekick......put a diesel engine in it.

I come from a diesel background, both business and pleasure and yes, the 4Runner should have been offered with a turbo-diesel many years ago. In fact, I cannot understand for the life of me why now, with the diesel 'advances', Toyota still doesn't offer an inline turbo diesel option.

In fact, the more I think about the 'oil problem' here in the U.S., advanced diesel technology and usage makes more sense than ever before.

I'd opt for a turbo diesel quicker than I would for a current generation hybrid.

I appreciate the description of your VW diesel experience... don't see many of these for one reason or another here in Colorado.

 

[progress4m]

I am very aware of the mileage difference.....I am just mostly annoyed with Toyota because they seem to be a half-decade behind when it comes to fuel economy technology in the 4runner. The 4runner gets the same mileage as a larger, more powerful, heavier Tahoe. Of course you cannot compare the build quality, but it is aggravating to think that Toyota is behind GM in this aspect. Just think.....if Toyota did cylinder deactivation, electric fans, part time 4x4 and a few other small things, the 4runner could be getting 15% or better mileage.

I have a V8: gets 17.5 mpg 50/50 Hwy City. 19.5 on hwy. That V8 is amazing.

IMO If you already annoyed by Toyota it is not a good start to think about getting one

 

[Atlanta_man]

I'm used to getting almost 19 hwy but have quite a mystery going on from the past weekend's trip.

I filled up in Alabama and after the pump shut off I did a top off and managed to get another 2.2 Gal into the tank !
Still no overflow but pump nozzle would (finally) let no more go in.

After almost 3 hours of steady I-20 at mostly 75mph cruise control, 10 miles of it was 55mph construction zone, and 15 more miles stop-and-go through the suburbs I stopped to gas up and check mileage.
Again doing the complete top off although the nozzle would let only about a half gallon more from the first click off.
Bottom line,
7.5 gal 175 miles = more than 23 mpg.

I don't believe it of course. Obviously the 2nd fillup was still somewhat short in spite of my best efforts.

(67000 mi, stock tire size, V8, A/C on but not working very hard, 2005 Limited, 2wd, Mobile I, gas pumps both said 10% ethanol)

 

[Will816]

If you could afford the cost of converting one to a 4x2, you are defeating the purpose of getting better mileage. Any improvements in mileage will never recover the cost of converting it.

Try to stay at 60 or under when cruising. I get around 23 mpg at 60 and about 17-18 mpg at 70....

I would not recommend changing the chip, that's a personal preference as I have seen many vehicles die as a result of bad chips and programmers (mostly diesels, but several gas vehicles as well).

It sounds like the rest of your ideas are pretty good, but if you're really looking for good mileage is the 4Runner the best choice for you? I have one because I need to tow, need 4WD for the snow and to go up rutted old mining roads for hunting, camping, and hiking.

My wife has the Hghlander Hybrid, she spends most of her time driving in stop and go traffic and she can hit 40+ mpg in Seattle's downtown. If you want an SUV, maybe something like that would be a better choice for a fuel conscience buyer?

 

[geoagent]

True record

62 mph
100 miles trip

 

[Schmatt]

Every single thread I have read about the on board mileage calculator says that it is at least 10% optimistic.

I just cannot believe how poor the mileage is on these things.....granted, they run great and the truck is a pleasure to drive......I just can't get over the mileage issue.

For comparison sake.....About 2 years ago I drove my truck (2002 GMC 2500HD 4x4 crew cab DIESEL) truck for a full tank @ 65 cruise control. Used the AC and climbed some decent hills (including the Tejon pass, fir you Southern Californians)......The truck got 22.6 mpg....the thing is literally a 6800 lb brick with 400 HP...why in the world are we given such crappy choices for SUV's and mileage!!?!?!??! I know the answer, just pissed.

 

[Schmatt]

I have a V8: gets 17.5 mpg 50/50 Hwy City. 19.5 on hwy. That V8 is amazing.

IMO If you already annoyed by Toyota it is not a good start to think about getting one

 

[stanglover37]

Full time 4wd silly? Like every single subaru? I live in the pacific northwest and I can BARELY find them. On auto trader I cant find one within 150 miles of seattle. Only search criteria is 05 v8. Does the chevy have any kind of variable valve timing?

2009 Chevrolet C15 Silverado 2WD 8 cylinder 5.3 liter R (L4) Auto 14 20

 

[BlairB]

One thing everyone needs to realize is the 4runner is using technology from before 2003, there has been very little changes with the v8.

Wait for the next generation and if it does not offer a new/more efficient power plant- then you can complain

 

[Will816]

One thing everyone needs to realize is the 4runner is using technology from before 2003, there has been very little changes with the v8.

Wait for the next generation and if it does not offer a new/more efficient power plant- then you can complain

It still gets good mileage, compare it against other body on frame midsizes and it is on the high side

 

[progress4m]

Your 4r is a 4x4 model? I also think it is real silly to offer a 100% full time 4x4 option.....at least let the user select between full time 4x4 and 2x4.....as you can do with some Jeep 4x4 vehicles....otherwise it is just a mileage killer (10%, according to EPA estimates)...I hate it when someone designs something that attempts to 'save me from myself.' Especially at that efficiency penalty!

I just really like the 4runner and would like to be able to have a truck that is comfortable, well built and dependable...and the 4runner fits the bill, except for the efficiency concerns. Now, it is really not a big deal, but I think fuel may be back at $4+ in the next 10 years...Others must be thinking like me, because 4runners can be found for dirt cheap right now.....(10-12k for a 03 V8 SE)

I would also have to differ with you on the 5.3L chevy....that is a good engine IMO.

Yes, I have 4x4 V8.

Coming from 2-nd and 3-rd gen of 4Runners and when I was looking for new one I also wasn

 

[4RunnerFromSTi]

I drove from 7000ft ASL to 13000ft ASL through Mountain passes and open highway (I-25 for my Coloradians) at about a constant (cruise controlled) 60 mph (Mountain Passes) up some monster hills and about 77 mph (Interstate) there and back. I averaged 19.6 mpg for the trip (Hand-Calculated) at 350 miles distance.

I have an 2004 V8 Sport Edition (Full-Time AWD).

It sounds like you want the body but not the heart. If gas is such a turn-off for you, just stick to your turbo-diesel/hybrid stuff. It'll make you feel better in the end. I mean, I hear the Highlander Hybrid Limited is quite nice...

 

[Schmatt]

I drove from 7000ft ASL to 13000ft ASL through Mountain passes and open highway (I-25 for my Coloradians) at about a constant (cruise controlled) 60 mph (Mountain Passes) up some monster hills and about 77 mph (Interstate) there and back. I averaged 19.6 mpg for the trip (Hand-Calculated) at 350 miles distance.

I have an 2004 V8 Sport Edition (Full-Time AWD).

It sounds like you want the body but not the heart. If gas is such a turn-off for you, just stick to your turbo-diesel/hybrid stuff. It'll make you feel better in the end. I mean, I hear the Highlander Hybrid Limited is quite nice...

High altitude driving is a real advantage for two reasons....you get to push a vehicle through air that is significantly thinner and modern gas engines cut fuel supply because of less available oxygen....so you kinda get two benefits.....of course you also get a pretty good decrease in power...but that is impressive mileage.

I want the Toyota, with the power, with the body on frame, etc. The Highlander does not cut it for me, not a hybrid fan. I have been totally spoiled by turbo diesels I guess.

Only other half viable option at this point is the Jeep GC CRD. 215 HP and 400 ft lb. Only problem: it is a Mercedes motor wrapped in a Chrysler body....and they are still a bit high in price.

So no one has tried to do the electric fan mod? If it is worth 5-10% it's payoff could come as early as a year. No computer tuning either? I've done that a lot with diesels and know of a lot of people with GM gas cars/trucks have been very happy with it as well...

Thank you all for the help....I am still on the fence. I suppose I could look into the V6, but the difference only amounts to $200 / yr or so and you never hear anyone say "I wish I hadn't gotten the V8.'

 

[eskimochaos]

High altitude driving is a real advantage for two reasons....you get to push a vehicle through air that is significantly thinner and modern gas engines cut fuel supply because of less available oxygen....so you kinda get two benefits.....of course you also get a pretty good decrease in power...but that is impressive mileage.

I want the Toyota, with the power, with the body on frame, etc. The Highlander does not cut it for me, not a hybrid fan. I have been totally spoiled by turbo diesels I guess.

Only other half viable option at this point is the Jeep GC CRD. 215 HP and 400 ft lb. Only problem: it is a Mercedes motor wrapped in a Chrysler body....and they are still a bit high in price.

So no one has tried to do the electric fan mod? If it is worth 5-10% it's payoff could come as early as a year. No computer tuning either? I've done that a lot with diesels and know of a lot of people with GM gas cars/trucks have been very happy with it as well...

Thank you all for the help....I am still on the fence. I suppose I could look into the V6, but the difference only amounts to $200 / yr or so and you never hear anyone say "I wish I hadn't gotten the V8.'

The fan only runs when it is really hot out like >95 outside.

 

[progress4m]

.. No computer tuning either? I've done that a lot with diesels and know of a lot of people with GM gas cars/trucks have been very happy with it as well...

'

It is hard to tune or improve something that already tuned.

 

[stanglover37]

Im sure the fan is operated through a clutch tuned to a specific temperature. There is no need to swap in electric fans. There is also no way that it would effect things by 5-10% that could be as much as 30 lbs torque. If this were so toyota would never have missed that opportunity.

As far as tunability, this is never a simple operation with gasoline engines. A lot of work has to be put in to coordinate cam lobes with the vvti lobes to yield greatest area under your torque curve. It is the vvti that allows these engines to grasp high torque at low rpms and then also produce good hp at higher rpms. Changing anything other than shoving more fuel and air into the combustion chamber is not going to yield much better results. Doing that, which im assuming you are hinting at, like changing your fuel tables or something, will just ruin fuel economy further. Having said that, diesels are a completely different deal. They run on a different thermodynamic process and are incredibly easy to alter performance on.

I think this discussion is a little out of hand though. There are too many variables that are too easy to change to argue about 1 or 2 extra mpg per different vehicle. If you want smooth power with the ability to do some towing go with the v8. If you cant deal with the extra parasitic loss of all time 4wd get the v6.

20000miles/16miles per gallon x 4 dollars per gallon = 5000 dollars

20000miles/21miles per gallon x 4 dollars per gallon = 3809 dollars

from economic standpoint, thats what your dealing with if you drive that much. I think I am leaning towards pretty poor conditions in all cases.