Valvoline Maxlife Drain-and-Fills (WS Compatability)

[Lindenwood]

I hadn't been able to answer this specific question through searching (drain and fills compatability). Whatever opinions you may hold on the drain-and-fill concept, just know that Valvoline says it is safe to do with their synthetic fluid over the top of the factory WS.

I have a 2016 Toyota 4Runner that uses the WS fluid. It has 45,000 miles. I was going to do a complete switch to your Maxlife synthetic ATF, but would it be safe to simply do a series of drain-and-fills with the Maxlife, perhaps over the course of a few weeks? My main concern would be any issues with mixing the Maxlife and WS fluid. Thanks!

Sir, thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support. Valvoline MaxLife ATF is 100% compatible with your factory WS fluid, and is safe to use for mixture or replacement as you have described.

 

[1000MPH]

Thanks.
There’s a thread in the 4th gen section.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/226817-toyota-ws-atf-vs-valvoline-maxlife-v8-2004-a.html

 

[Lindenwood]

Yeah I actually read that thread in my searches, but beyond a couple anecdotes there wasn't much in the way of direct confirmation that Maxlife can be mixed in with WS.

 

[ridefast]

:rtfm:

The owners manual is very specific on this topic. These transmissions are well proven in the reliability department with WS ATF. I think 4Runners have been using WS since 2004 ish. Don’t fix what’s not broke unless you are willing to pay for possible consequences. In this case it’s the tranny. $$$
Valvoline is going to say whatever they have to to sell more product. The Dex iii days are long gone.

 

[1000MPH]

At least the WS isn’t completely crazy expensive like the TC fluid. You should be able to get at less than $10/qt.

 

[Lindenwood]

:rtfm:

The owners manual is very specific on this topic. These transmissions are well proven in the reliability department with WS ATF. I think 4Runners have been using WS since 2004 ish. Don’t fix what’s not broke unless you are willing to pay for possible consequences. In this case it’s the tranny. $$$
Valvoline is going to say whatever they have to to sell more product. The Dex iii days are long gone.

It isnt a matter of supposing Maxlife is "better" than WS, just that is costs half as much and certainly does have a growing body of evidence supporting it as at least a perfectly acceptable alternative.

In any case, I have no intention of following Toyota's recommendation to never change the ATF. And, funny, if I did, and my transmission started slipping at 250k, I'm sure Toyota wouldn't spend a damn cent backing up their assertion that the fluid doesn't need to be changed .

 

[ridefast]

Easy there

I never mentioned running the ATF for the lifetime of the 4Runner. Ill service mine at some point but I've still got under 20k miles and all is good for a long time considering our use of the vehicle.

What performance are you looking to get out of a ATF change? Lets be honest there are no performance gains to be had here.

Are you really trying to save $50 on maintenance? We both paid quite a bit of $ for our 4Runners skimping on this is crazy.

Drain and fill methods are a waste of $$$ as the new blends with the old and you inherently loose some of the new ATF with the subsequent drain and fills. Just replace it all.

 

[wfo9]

The recommendation is to change at 100k before that is throwing money away, Unless you beat it really hard. After the first 100K it probably good to change it ever 50-60k. The mixing idea just seems problematic.

Changing on a 40k or whatever mile truck is a complete waste of time and money. I would personally stick with Toyota ATF WS, but the other stuff might work fine (really hard to say for sure). I think changing less often and doing a full exchange with the factory approved fluid would be the better idea, but to each his own.

 

[1000MPH]

There are many who believe that partial changes are the better way to go. I'm not sure if there's real evidence either way but that's most likely what I will do. In the other thread, it was mentioned that Toyota specifies this method for the new Tacoma.

 

[Lindenwood]

What performance are you looking to get out of a ATF change? Lets be honest there are no performance gains to be had here.

Are you really trying to save $50 on maintenance? We both paid quite a bit of $ for our 4Runners skimping on this is crazy.

Intending to take both of my 4Runners to >300k miles, I fully believe that, especially with respect to wear items like transmission clutches, every little bit of care you put in on the front end helps on the back end. Toyota might feel completely confident that their transmissions will go 120k miles on the factory fluid with no problems, and there is no question that this is the case. But, would you argue that a 300k mile transmission that has had one or 2 fluid changes would have no more wear than one with 6?

Also, I did a lot of digging before now and there is absolutely no evidence that Maxlife is or would be any worse for our transmissions than WS (to include fluid analyses). So, it might be a bit presumptuous to call using Maxlife "skimping" .

 

[2016 4Runner SR5]

I'll be doing 50K transmission and transfer case services just like I do 5K engine oil changes and diff fluid changes every 30K. I also get under it and grease everything I can at every service. Why? Why not, cheap insurance. Your fluids can never be too fresh or too clean. Is it a waste? Maybe, maybe not, I don't care either way.

 

[ridefast]

Intending to take both of my 4Runners to >300k miles, I fully believe that, especially with respect to wear items like transmission clutches, every little bit of care you put in on the front end helps on the back end.

I fully agree with you. "you get what you give"

I am not going to speculate on a 300k mile transmission based on how many ATF changes I do. Rather I am going to service the tranny with the product that the manual calls for just as I serviced my 3ed gen (Dex iii).

Vehicle manufacturers have created a proprietary word of parts and fluids that I am not willing to take the risk and buy after market ATF, coolant and spark plugs (basically all of the items that call out a specific part # in the manual). It's your choice entirely.
I would say the general consensus is going to side with Toyota WS.

 

[wfo9]

I'm surprised more people don't mention dropping the pan and changing the filter. I have not had one in my hands to see what the media is like, but it is replaceable. Might be worth it for the super paranoid.

 

[wfo9]

There are also 4 magnets in the pan that most likely become useless over time, so it would make sense to drop the pan and clean those also. After watching this video I'm convinced it is totally worth dropping the pan and doing it right. It will be a PITA on my truck since my Y pipe has to be removed and my 02 sensors have to come out.. Still think it will be worth the effort every 100k. With a regular crossover pipe out of the way, it would hardly take any time.

https://youtu.be/4FflypYGgh8?t=4m52s

 

[Rmack]

There are many who believe that partial changes are the better way to go. I'm not sure if there's real evidence either way but that's most likely what I will do. In the other thread, it was mentioned that Toyota specifies this method for the new Tacoma.

This is what I have been taught by the old school guys growing up. Reasoning has something to do with not introducing too much fresh fluid (detergent properties) into the tranny at one time. Too much supposedly cleans and suspends the clutch and metallic particles into the new fluid, possibly clogging filters or small orifices. I did have this happen on my 05 GMC Z71. New synthetic fluid (changed for towing) clogged my new filter in 15k miles. The new fluid had a lot higher detergent properties and the filter has a paper type element. truck started spitting fluid out of the overflow. Old school tranny guy at a local shop diagnosed it for me.

I'll be doing 50K transmission and transfer case services just like I do 5K engine oil changes and diff fluid changes every 30K. I also get under it and grease everything I can at every service. Why? Why not, cheap insurance. Your fluids can never be too fresh or too clean. Is it a waste? Maybe, maybe not, I don't care either way.

This is spot on. I do all of my vehicles the same way. Just because it will last 150k with their recommended procedures, I would like to go 300k. Plus, why do folks not blink an eye at $4,000 modifications but want to "save money" on the regular maintenance?

I'm surprised more people don't mention dropping the pan and changing the filter. I have not had one in my hands to see what the media is like, but it is replaceable. Might be worth it for the super paranoid.

I dropped mine at 20k miles and changed the screen. I only did the drain and fill method, just like all 3 of my GMC trucks. I cleaned everything including the magnets. It was dirty even at 20k. The screen is metal and there is no filter material so I will not change it every time but I will drop the pan and clean it every other time. If you never drop the pan how do you know what kind of material is sticking to the magnets? How do you get the pan (dirtiest part) clean?

I quit trying to convince others on regular fluid changes at increased intervals. To each their own. I do my own thing based on 40 years of building hot rods and being trained and certified in oil and fluid analysis. Maybe its just my OCD and ADD and I am the only one

 

[wfo9]

I quit trying to convince others on regular fluid changes at increased intervals. To each their own. I do my own thing based on 40 years of building hot rods and being trained and certified in oil and fluid analysis. Maybe its just my OCD and ADD and I am the only one

That works, but you just have to keep in mind that much has changed in 40 years. The materials and fluids are all completely different now and it is really hard to argue against mfg maintenance schedules.

 

[1000MPH]

You drop the pan and only a few qts come out? Good to know.
Edit: Duh, sorry wfo, I forgot you posted this in the other thread.

Would be nice to see a little write-up from someone doing the pan drop.
Also, what gaskets are needed and any problems with leaks afterwards.

 

[1jzgte]

I dropped mine at 20k miles and changed the screen. I only did the drain and fill method, just like all 3 of my GMC trucks. I cleaned everything including the magnets. It was dirty even at 20k. The screen is metal and there is no filter material so I will not change it every time but I will drop the pan and clean it every other time. If you never drop the pan how do you know what kind of material is sticking to the magnets? How do you get the pan (dirtiest part) clean?

I'm wondering how to go about this too. Spray debris off metal screen with water. Allow it to completely dry then soak it in the cheapest ATF you can find at walmart to displace any possibility of water that's still on the filter. Sounds like an overnight procedure.

If the entire filter and housing material is made of metal, then why cant we clean and reuse?

 

[Rmack]

I'm wondering how to go about this too. Spray debris off metal screen with water. Allow it to completely dry then soak it in the cheapest ATF you can find at walmart to displace any possibility of water that's still on the filter. Sounds like an overnight procedure.

If the entire filter and housing material is made of metal, then why cant we clean and reuse?

You can clean and re-use. I do not even plan on cleaning it next time, just going to do a drain and fill. Every other time it will get either cleaned and re-used or replaced. Mainly to drop the pan and inspect the magnets.

 

[Rmack]

That works, but you just have to keep in mind that much has changed in 40 years. The materials and fluids are all completely different now and it is really hard to argue against mfg maintenance schedules.

Yes I agree things have changed over the years, a lot. I have changed with the times and technology mostly. Having been extensively trained in fluid analysis and testing many types, I will always default to an increased change interval for my own piece of mind.

Like I said, it is not for everyone. I will never let a vehicle go for 10k on the same oil or 75k on tranny fluid. That is just me, not trying to convince anyone else. It is just me and my OCD