Various performance parts opinions

[theking11863]

So now that I have a job and a consistent flow of cash refilling my bank account, I've decided I'm going to do a few upgrades while my 3.0 is apart. I was already considering doing performance cams in a half assed attempt to prevent future head gasket blows. Now with the extra money I'm thinking about doing headers too so it'll actually be solid and reliable.

So far what I've found is everyone likes Doug Thorley, no one likes DOA, and mixed reviews about NWOR and Downey. So I guess throw out your opinions. I'll make a pros and cons sheet in this post so the info is easily available. I will also do this with the cams.

Also I live in CA and intend to keep my vehicle smog legal so that info is very useful too. So goodbye LC Engineering Headers...

 

[KidVermicious]

Go with the cheapest header you can find and run with it. Any set of headers will help the reliability issue, and the gains you'll get from a high end performance setup like Thorley aren't worth the price of admission IMO. Not that they aren't good headers, they just aren't worth the money for the incremental gain you'll get.

Because just headers and cams won't help much. To see even moderate gains you'll also want a bigger intake, ported heads and throttle body, and exhaust work. By the time you've done all that you might come within shouting distance of 5VZE power, and you'll have spent more than if you'd just bought a 5VZE and conversion harness and thrown them in.

 

[theking11863]

I'm not doing this stuff for the gains. Just to reinforce the head gasket. Cams are supposed to help too. Only reason I'm looking at the thorleys is because those are the only ones I've heard are smog legal. Gotta do more research though


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[joeynational]

if you want reliability stick with OEM, not sure how cams and header will "reinforce" your head gasket. I would think it would make it more susceptible to failure with the increased duration and lift. I agree with the 5vz swap. Best of both worlds, reliability and performance increase!

 

[Wazukie]

If I were to do it all over again, I'd go with a fuel injected 5.0 Thorly headers are nice but I've got about $900 just in the exhaust system with those stupid things, lol

 

[theking11863]

if you want reliability stick with OEM, not sure how cams and header will "reinforce" your head gasket. I would think it would make it more susceptible to failure with the increased duration and lift. I agree with the 5vz swap. Best of both worlds, reliability and performance increase!

When it comes to headers, OEM is not reliable unless you live somewhere cold, and even then, it is a risk. Aftermarket headers make the engine more reliable because they eliminate the stupid placement of the OEM crossover pipe which sits between the firewall and the heads, creating unnecessary heat. Aftermarket headers either move the crossover underneath the transmission, or gives the option for dual exhaust.

Cams help by advancing the timing of the valves, causing them to open a little earlier creating less pressure and heat. This isn't an amazing solution to the head gasket problem, but it does help. Yes, 5vz swap is nice, but is a couple thousand dollar swap at least. I don't have the time or money to do that right now so I will not be looking at that route right now

If I were to do it all over again, I'd go with a fuel injected 5.0 Thorly headers are nice but I've got about $900 just in the exhaust system with those stupid things, lol

Like stated above, I'm not going to do an engine swap. I wasn't even going to get headers, but things started going my way so I said screw it lol

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

OEM was not an optimal system, the crossover pipe from the passenger's side created a lot more backpressure and had some issues with the driver's side feeding into the passenger's crossover tube, which ultimately overheats the engine by having all that extra, unbalanced, backpressure.

I'm not familiar with the 3.0 thorley headers, but I still swear by my 4cylinder thorley that's still on my truck almost 20 years later. I also had a thorley on my i6 supra and that made a VERY noticeable diffference in power and response time.

I would think that the 3vze would benefit nicely from a dual exhaust system, rather than a crossover pipe into a single exhaust, as it would allow the engine an equal-length system that flows quite easily with a good muffler.

If you want some technical info on exhausts, here's a quick reference for you:

My suggestion for the 3vze in stock form with just the headers would be 2¼" if you're going to run the crossover pipe, or 1½" if you do go with dual exhaust. And, if you're looking to go a different route, run a Y pipe about halfway down the frame (this still deletes the crossover pipe behind the engine), and run 2¼" for everything. You'll lose a slight bit of backpressure by doing this, but overall, you'll actually gain a bit more torque and have a quicker throttle response, as the engine will be under less load to get the exhaust out of the ports.

 

[KidVermicious]

Only reason I'm looking at the thorleys is because those are the only ones I've heard are smog legal. Gotta do more research though

I thought I saw Pacesetters were smog legal for the 3.0? If not, your best bang for the buck is going to be wrapping your stock crossover with header tape and moving on. Last time I looked a set of Thorleys was north of $500, and that's half a 5VZE swap if you played your cards right. The 3.0 isn't worth that kind of money.

 

[theking11863]

OEM was not an optimal system, the crossover pipe from the passenger's side created a lot more backpressure and had some issues with the driver's side feeding into the passenger's crossover tube, which ultimately overheats the engine by having all that extra, unbalanced, backpressure.

I'm not familiar with the 3.0 thorley headers, but I still swear by my 4cylinder thorley that's still on my truck almost 20 years later. I also had a thorley on my i6 supra and that made a VERY noticeable diffference in power and response time.

I would think that the 3vze would benefit nicely from a dual exhaust system, rather than a crossover pipe into a single exhaust, as it would allow the engine an equal-length system that flows quite easily with a good muffler.

If you want some technical info on exhausts, here's a quick reference for you:

My suggestion for the 3vze in stock form with just the headers would be 2¼" if you're going to run the crossover pipe, or 1½" if you do go with dual exhaust. And, if you're looking to go a different route, run a Y pipe about halfway down the frame (this still deletes the crossover pipe behind the engine), and run 2¼" for everything. You'll lose a slight bit of backpressure by doing this, but overall, you'll actually gain a bit more torque and have a quicker throttle response, as the engine will be under less load to get the exhaust out of the ports.

Thanks! Lots of good info here! I believe the Thorley's goes long with those numbers on the diameters.

I thought I saw Pacesetters were smog legal for the 3.0? If not, your best bang for the buck is going to be wrapping your stock crossover with header tape and moving on. Last time I looked a set of Thorleys was north of $500, and that's half a 5VZE swap if you played your cards right. The 3.0 isn't worth that kind of money.

I searched for 3.0 Pacesetters, but came back with only 22RE ones. Not sure they exist :/

Lowest I've seen for the Thorley's is $600, but that's without the y pipe I believe. Not sure where you've seen those estimates, but everywhere I've looked 3.4 swap is estimated at $3000-5000. Definitely don't have that kind of cash or time

 

[flyinhawaiian01]

You'd have to do the swap yourself if you wanted it below those numbers, and it would be beneficial to get a totaled vehicle with the 5vze in it, as you'll need everything complete. By doing it that way, you could part out the rest of the vehicle once you get everything you need for the conversion off.

I think that's really the only way to really do a swap on the cheap. You will never find a complete motor with everything you'll need (harness/ecu/dash cluster/misc parts under the hood/exhaust manifolds, etc.) for under a grand without just buying the complete vehicle as a totaled car. On top of all that, you're going to need some specialty parts, such as motor mounts and transmission adapter to make it all work together. I don't know if the 5vze bolts up to whatever transmission you have, but if it doesn't, you'll need an adapter or use the trans with the other vehicle.

Not trying to discourage you or anyone else in doing a swap, as its definitely worth the money in the long run! I've done several swaps now, my first was a 350 in my old '80 2wd longbed that never really got finished because I just didn't have the money and knowledge to complete the project (I was 20 when I tried doing this back in '88, you know, when there was no such thing as the internet to find info and buy parts online!!!). I'd hate to see someone go through what I went through and lose a lot of money if they aren't up to the task!

Unfortunately, its one of those things where you gotta have either really good mechanical skills or a good-sized bank account to make the 4runner a solid performance vehicle! While you'll get a slight bit more performance from the exhaust system, the 3vze is just not a powerhouse unless you spend some serious money on it, and at that point, its counter-intuitive as you could have easily swapped something else in for a lot less!

So, having said all this, my opinion of the 3vze is not very high, but I think it could still perform decently with a good full exhaust system, a little work on the intake (cold air intake and a larger/bored throttle body) and a set of injectors one step up from stock. I think this is about all I would do with the 3vze before swapping it out for something bigger and more efficient. Once you pass this point, you'll be looking at standalone ecu and head/valve work with cams, and that alone will push you several grand into the hole!

 

[theking11863]

You'd have to do the swap yourself if you wanted it below those numbers, and it would be beneficial to get a totaled vehicle with the 5vze in it, as you'll need everything complete. By doing it that way, you could part out the rest of the vehicle once you get everything you need for the conversion off.

I think that's really the only way to really do a swap on the cheap. You will never find a complete motor with everything you'll need (harness/ecu/dash cluster/misc parts under the hood/exhaust manifolds, etc.) for under a grand without just buying the complete vehicle as a totaled car. On top of all that, you're going to need some specialty parts, such as motor mounts and transmission adapter to make it all work together. I don't know if the 5vze bolts up to whatever transmission you have, but if it doesn't, you'll need an adapter or use the trans with the other vehicle.

Not trying to discourage you or anyone else in doing a swap, as its definitely worth the money in the long run! I've done several swaps now, my first was a 350 in my old '80 2wd longbed that never really got finished because I just didn't have the money and knowledge to complete the project (I was 20 when I tried doing this back in '88, you know, when there was no such thing as the internet to find info and buy parts online!!!). I'd hate to see someone go through what I went through and lose a lot of money if they aren't up to the task!

Unfortunately, its one of those things where you gotta have either really good mechanical skills or a good-sized bank account to make the 4runner a solid performance vehicle! While you'll get a slight bit more performance from the exhaust system, the 3vze is just not a powerhouse unless you spend some serious money on it, and at that point, its counter-intuitive as you could have easily swapped something else in for a lot less!

So, having said all this, my opinion of the 3vze is not very high, but I think it could still perform decently with a good full exhaust system, a little work on the intake (cold air intake and a larger/bored throttle body) and a set of injectors one step up from stock. I think this is about all I would do with the 3vze before swapping it out for something bigger and more efficient. Once you pass this point, you'll be looking at standalone ecu and head/valve work with cams, and that alone will push you several grand into the hole!

That is exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm 19, and don't have the knowledge or bank account to afford a swap. Hell, I don't even have the skills or money to do what I 'm doing with the head gasket and the headers!

Would love to do a 3.4 swap but that's years down the line. I can't have another vehicle (doner) in my driveway and I just miss my runner. I'm a month and 5 days short of it being the 1 year anniversary of my 4runner getting sidelined. I could care less about performance. Like I said before, this is to make the engine reliable so I don't have to make it sit for another long stretch of time.

Also I got some proving to do! Gotta show the dudes on Tacoma World what's up!