Vibration after lift and tires

[4OYOTER]

2013 SR5 4x4 - 61K miles.

Installed 5100s all around with front at 1.75" and 1" cornfed spacer in rear. Drove around 30 miles and noticed a huge improvement over squishy stock SR5 suspension. No vibrations or other post lift issues noticed.

A few days later I upgraded to P285/70R17 Falken Wildpeak AT3w's. I noticed an improvement in ride quality over E rated 275/70R17 KO2s. The Falkens balanced out well with no issues or vibrations noticed. I drove another 20 miles or so miles without noticing any issues.

A few days later I went to the Toyota dealer for an alignment, knowing I needed one after the lift. The dream team at said dealership took 2+ hours on my alignment. The advisor came back saying it "kicked their butts" and 1.6 caster was the best they could do after 2 alignments with a test drive in between. I immediately noticed my steering wheel was now annoyingly off centered to the right, but no vibrations or other ride quality issues observed.

I then handed the vehicle back to my wife, confident all was well with her vehicle, pending a better alignment to correct caster and centering of steering wheel.

A few days later I drive the vehicle again. I notice nothing odd at first other than the steering wheel being off centered. After 20 or so miles I start noticing a vibration in my driver seat and floor board. The wannna-be mechanic in me starts trying to determine cause. It starts around 30mph and stays the same up to our top speed of 80mph. The steering wheel never shakes, but I feel an almost constant "hop" in my booty and shoes. It's not bad or terrible, but to me.. obvious and noticeable. Almost like constantly driving over a portion of pot hole infested bumpy roads, but we are not and I've observed the same vibration above 30mph in many different road terrains.

My wife says she doesn't feel anything, other than the road. I also rode in the passenger seat, noticing the same annoying "hop" in my butt and shoes.

My instinct tells me it's something towards the rear of the vehicle. I double checked wheel and suspension torque. I was already aware of an existing slight vibration when braking, but this new vibration doesnt seem to be brake related. I also noticed my tie rod end bushings/boot/bellows are now wet with obvious grease. I did not touch them when installing the lift so I attribute this to the questionable dealer alignment, maybe the dream team didn't use two wrenches to adjust toe?

I want to suspect it is drive line related. So last night I busted out the grease gun. First time lubing the driveline, as I have just asked the dealer to do it during oil changes. All zerks seemed to take an appropriate amount of pumps; excect for the first spider yoke closest to the front of the vehicle. It immediately started expelling gray looking grease, while the other spiders took a few pumps before expelling black grease. Anywho, the chassis lube didn't seem to change the vibration.

Anyone have any ideas? I know I still need to get a better alignment and I guess it wouldn't hurt to have the tire balance checked again.

 

[TRUSTYAXE]

The dealer not being able to get your steering wheel strait is a red flag, I'd get that fixed pronto. I Had my lift and alignment done at the dealer also, but they kinda knew me. I've read that your lugs not being tightened in a star pattern can cause issues. That's one guess, beyond that I'd take it back and make them correct it, make sure you request a master tech, get his name, etc.

 

[1engineer]

Typically if you have a shake in the steering wheel it's front end related. Shake in the seat is rear driveline, suspension or tires.


Stop and be logical: If your vehicle was fine before and mods, then chances are usually good whatever problem you have now is the result of those mods.

1. Go get it aligned at a decent shop. Find the old guy who has been aligning stuff for 30 years. You need caster to be in spec at least which is min +2.6. Now test drive. If you still have vibration go to next easiest check which is
2. Tires. Have them re balanced. Maybe you lost a weight on the back tires. This is easy to have them checked. If you still have a vibration then
3. Your suspension mods. Everything torqued correctly? Nothing missing or installed wrong? Then and only then should you

Start methodically checking things that could cause vibration like wheel bearings, axles, gears, driveline, etc.

 

[Vinsil]

Typically if you have a shake in the steering wheel it's front end related. Shake in the seat is rear driveline, suspension or tires.


Stop and be logical: If your vehicle was fine before and mods, then chances are usually good whatever problem you have now is the result of those mods.

1. Go get it aligned at a decent shop. Find the old guy who has been aligning stuff for 30 years. You need caster to be in spec at least which is min +2.6. Now test drive. If you still have vibration go to next easiest check which is
2. Tires. Have them re balanced. Maybe you lost a weight on the back tires. This is easy to have them checked. If you still have a vibration then
3. Your suspension mods. Everything torqued correctly? Nothing missing or installed wrong? Then and only then should you

Start methodically checking things that could cause vibration like wheel bearings, axles, gears, driveline, etc.

This. With 61k miles sometimes a lift will exaggerate a problem you might not have perceived before. A u-joint that has never been lubed would be a likely suspect due to a slight increase in operating angle. Greg gave you the best list to start with.

 

[SATSTRAIL]

I also for the most part will second the comment posted by 1engineer. However, an alignment issue will typically not cause a vibration. I am a master tech at an Infiniti dealership and I perform alignments all of the time and have never come across a vibration issue related to wheel alignment. That doesn't mean it's absolutely not possible it's just very unlikely and not the most common cause. But since you need to get an alignment regardless, definitely get that taken care of.

A vibration is typically going to be caused by a rotating part, for example a driveline component or most commonly wheels/tires. A tire/wheel assembly can still exhibit a vibration issue and be 100% balanced according to the machine. This is due to excessive radial force variation (RFV). Every tire has a hard spot in it compared to the other portions of the sidewalls. Imagine that your sidewalls were made up entirely of coil springs stacked around the circumference of the wheel with the exception that at one spot where there would be a coil spring you instead placed a straight piece of rebar/steel. Every time that piece of rebar rotates around and contacts the ground it will cause a vibration (bump feeling) due to it being much stiffer than the other portions of the sidewall. The resolution to this or at least a way to decrease its affect depending on how much road force the tire has is that the machine can measure and locate the hard spot in the tire as well as the low spot in the wheel. These two points are marked and then lined up with one another (called indexing) thus canceling/minimizing their individual affect.

So as to save time many tire shops do not initially measure the radial force and index the tires on the first installation. And even if they are properly indexed on the initial installation, though it's rare, it's possible for RFV to change after being driven for a while due to the tires being warmed up and potentially even a tire slipping slightly/rotating on the wheel. I would take it back to the shop and have them check for excessive radial force and see if that resolves anything. And as was mentioned by 1engineer a wheel weight could've come off. Let us know what you find out!

A couple weeks ago I installed 275 K02's on my 16 trail with KDSS. For several days they felt pretty good though a bit stiffer, however, unless I'm crazy I've noticed they've started to ride like crap. The vibration is very much like what the OP described. Tomorrow I will be throwing them on the machine again to check for road force issues.

 

[Vinsil]

I also for the most part will second the comment posted by 1engineer. However, an alignment issue will typically not cause a vibration. I am a master tech at an Infiniti dealership and I perform alignments all of the time and have never come across a vibration issue related to wheel alignment. That doesn't mean it's absolutely not possible it's just very unlikely and not the most common cause. But since you need to get an alignment regardless, definitely get that taken care of.

A vibration is typically going to be caused by a rotating part, for example a driveline component or most commonly wheels/tires. A tire/wheel assembly can still exhibit a vibration issue and be 100% balanced according to the machine. This is due to excessive road force variation (RFV). Every tire has a hard spot in it compared to the other portions of the sidewalls. Imagine that your sidewalls were made up entirely of coil springs stacked around the circumference of the wheel with the exception that at one spot where there would be a coil spring you instead placed a straight piece of rebar/steel. Every time that piece of rebar rotates around and contacts the ground it will cause a vibration (bump feeling) due to it being much stiffer than the other portions of the sidewall. The resolution to this or at least a way to decrease its affect depending on how much road force the tire has is that the machine can measure and locate the hard spot in the tire as well as the low spot in the wheel. These two points are marked and then lined up with one another (called indexing) thus canceling/minimizing their individual affect.

So as to save time many tire shops do not initially measure the road force and index the tires on the first installation. And even if they are properly indexed on the initial installation, though it's rare, it's possible for RFV to change after being driven for a while due to the tires being warmed up and potentially even a tire slipping slightly/rotating on the wheel. I would take it back to the shop and have them check for excessive road force and see if that resolves anything. And as was mentioned by 1engineer a wheel weight could've come off. Let us know what you find out!

A couple weeks ago I installed 275 K02's on my 16 trail with KDSS. For several days they felt pretty good though a bit stiffer, however, unless I'm crazy I've noticed they've started to ride like crap. The vibration is very much like what the OP described. Tomorrow I will be throwing them on the machine again to check for road force issues.

Mine were off. Not enough that we noticed but after a rotation it was very apparent. Had them balanced again and thy were all off by quite a bit, but the rears which now are on the front and you could really tell.....

 

[wanderMT]

When steering wheel isn't centered, have to really wonder about toe setting.
A bad new tire will often show up after some use, and as mentioned, a rotation can isolate tire/balance problems.

 

[TRDORmike]

I also for the most part will second the comment posted by 1engineer. However, an alignment issue will typically not cause a vibration. I am a master tech at an Infiniti dealership and I perform alignments all of the time and have never come across a vibration issue related to wheel alignment. That doesn't mean it's absolutely not possible it's just very unlikely and not the most common cause. But since you need to get an alignment regardless, definitely get that taken care of.

A vibration is typically going to be caused by a rotating part, for example a driveline component or most commonly wheels/tires. A tire/wheel assembly can still exhibit a vibration issue and be 100% balanced according to the machine. This is due to excessive radial force variation (RFV). Every tire has a hard spot in it compared to the other portions of the sidewalls. Imagine that your sidewalls were made up entirely of coil springs stacked around the circumference of the wheel with the exception that at one spot where there would be a coil spring you instead placed a straight piece of rebar/steel. Every time that piece of rebar rotates around and contacts the ground it will cause a vibration (bump feeling) due to it being much stiffer than the other portions of the sidewall. The resolution to this or at least a way to decrease its affect depending on how much road force the tire has is that the machine can measure and locate the hard spot in the tire as well as the low spot in the wheel. These two points are marked and then lined up with one another (called indexing) thus canceling/minimizing their individual affect.

So as to save time many tire shops do not initially measure the radial force and index the tires on the first installation. And even if they are properly indexed on the initial installation, though it's rare, it's possible for RFV to change after being driven for a while due to the tires being warmed up and potentially even a tire slipping slightly/rotating on the wheel. I would take it back to the shop and have them check for excessive radial force and see if that resolves anything. And as was mentioned by 1engineer a wheel weight could've come off. Let us know what you find out!

A couple weeks ago I installed 275 K02's on my 16 trail with KDSS. For several days they felt pretty good though a bit stiffer, however, unless I'm crazy I've noticed they've started to ride like crap. The vibration is very much like what the OP described. Tomorrow I will be throwing them on the machine again to check for road force issues.

Have you had any luck? I am having a big issue with my brand new 2017 TRD Off Road w/KDSS. Have 410kms on the clock and it has had a steering wheel shake at 60-65 mph or so since I first picked it up. Have balanced the tires and swapped one that needed road force on rf to lr so get the vibe in the back if its that wheel/tire but it is still the same. I don't know what to do and I don't want some rookie at the dealer messing with my truck for warranty yet. Should I try to increase caster with an alignment? Do you have any idea if this is even possible with stock CAs?.

 

[df662]

Have the tires checked for out of round condition. Had issues at discount tire twice with this. You would think they would check the tires prior to installing..... The first time It was a set of michelin tires I bought from them. I kept on feeling vibrations. After the third time of me going back for rebalancing, they realized one of the tires was out of spec on the roundness. Second time was a few weeks ago. Same issue with bfg ko2's. Both tires were exchanged.

 

[TfourR]

Have the tires checked for out of round condition. Had issues at discount tire twice with this. You would think they would check the tires prior to installing..... The first time It was a set of michelin tires I bought from them. I kept on feeling vibrations. After the third time of me going back for rebalancing, they realized one of the tires was out of spec on the roundness. Second time was a few weeks ago. Same issue with bfg ko2's. Both tires were exchanged.

There is no way for them to check the tires for out of round condition prior to installing. Nor do they have the time to check every single tire they have in stock. Good thing is they're a good company who stand behind their products and replaced them without hassle.

 

[df662]

There is no way for them to check the tires for out of round condition prior to installing. Nor do they have the time to check every single tire they have in stock. Good thing is they're a good company who stand behind their products and replaced them without hassle.

They can see it on the road force balancing machine, can they not? Excessive out if round condition is covered under mfg warranty.

 

[TfourR]

They can see it on the road force balancing machine, can they not? Excessive out if round condition is covered under mfg warranty.

Having it road forced balance is an option for you if you would like to purchase the service, it's not a routine free service. However if a person is having issues with their tires they will then check it on that machine. If they checked every vehicles tires on the road force machine when someone got new tires it would take hours on top of hours for vehicles to be competed. Then I'm sure that would be a complaint from people about how it took too long. No win situation.


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[df662]

Having it road forced balance is an option for you if you would like to purchase the service, it's not a routine free service. However if a person is having issues with their tires they will then check it on that machine. If they checked every vehicles tires on the road force machine when someone got new tires it would take hours on top of hours for vehicles to be competed. Then I'm sure that would be a complaint from people about how it took too long. No win situation.


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That is all they use in my area, road force balancers, they have no other machines. They made a switch last year, or so they said.... So either the person that was using it was not properly trained or chose to ignore the out of round condition.

 

[TfourR]

That is all they use in my area, road force balancers,

Interesting. They have the road force machines here but they also serve as a regular balancer. They have to switch into the road force mode in order to utilize it. If they are not in that mode then it is just a regular balancer.

But again, if they checked every new tire for out of round it would take a long time.


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[df662]

That is all they use in my area, road force balancers,

Interesting. They have the road force machines here but they also serve as a regular balancer. They have to switch into the road force mode in order to utilize it. If they are not in that mode then it is just a regular balancer.

But again, if they checked every new tire for out of round it would take a long time.


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Its possible that is what happenned. I specifically ask for road force balancing every time I go in.

 

[TfourR]

Its possible that is what happenned. I specifically ask for road force balancing every time I go in.

Yeah that's the only way to go IMO. I'm glad they found the out of round tires.


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[SATSTRAIL]

Have you had any luck? I am having a big issue with my brand new 2017 TRD Off Road w/KDSS. Have 410kms on the clock and it has had a steering wheel shake at 60-65 mph or so since I first picked it up. Have balanced the tires and swapped one that needed road force on rf to lr so get the vibe in the back if its that wheel/tire but it is still the same. I don't know what to do and I don't want some rookie at the dealer messing with my truck for warranty yet. Should I try to increase caster with an alignment? Do you have any idea if this is even possible with stock CAs?.

Unfortunately, much to my dismay and irritation I have not been able to resolve my vibration. After I road forced all of my tires again I did find that the right rear had very high road force at approximately 20 kg. I took the truck into discount tire and they warranteed the right rear tire for me. Had to pay an $18 labor charge since I purchased the tires from tire rack and did the install myself. No problem. I was really hoping this would resolve my vibration issue however it did not.

I have personally road force balanced all of my tires three times now and played around with indexing the tire to the rims. This has resulted in my highest road force reading being only 7.5 kg and none of the tires appear to be excessively out of round. Two of the tires are even around 3 to 4 kg which is amazing for an all-terrain truck tire. None of these road force reading should be causing a vibration which is why I am very frustrated with this. I feel that my truck rides like absolute garbage especially on the freeway with there being a constant repetitive vibration type of feel in the seat and body and intermittent steering wheel shimmy. These conditions are present regardless of what freeway I'm driving on… i've played around with a variety of different tire pressures ranging from 34 psi to 40 PSI and while the lower pressures feel a tad softer in the ride, it does not seem to reduce the vibration.

Yesterday I had a friend bring his SR5 into my shop with the goal of swapping wheels and tires from vehicle to vehicle to truly determine if it's my wheels and tires for my vehicle that is causing the vibration. Unfortunately we found out that almost all of his Lugnuts which are aftermarket spline style have been damaged by discount tire and therefore we didn't get to do the wheel swap because I didn't want to risk damaging his wheel lock key and Lugnuts any further and leaving his vehicle undrivable. This whole thing has me really frustrated and not being able to enjoy my new truck very much. It has less than 3000 miles on it. I want to get this vibration figured out so I can install my lift. I don't want to install my lift with the chance that there may actually be something wrong with my truck rather than the tires because of course the dealership will then blame it on the lift.

Anyone else running BFG K02 275s on a KDSS equipped truck and feel that it rides like absolute garbage??

 

[TfourR]

Unfortunately, much to my dismay and irritation I have not been able to resolve my vibration. After I road forced all of my tires again I did find that the right rear had very high road force at approximately 20 kg. I took the truck into discount tire and they warranteed the right rear tire for me. Had to pay an $18 labor charge since I purchased the tires from tire rack and did the install myself. No problem. I was really hoping this would resolve my vibration issue however it did not.

I have personally road force balanced all of my tires three times now and played around with indexing the tire to the rims. This has resulted in my highest road force reading being only 7.5 kg and none of the tires appear to be excessively out of round. Two of the tires are even around 3 to 4 kg which is amazing for an all-terrain truck tire. None of these road force reading should be causing a vibration which is why I am very frustrated with this. I feel that my truck rides like absolute garbage especially on the freeway with there being a constant repetitive vibration type of feel in the seat and body and intermittent steering wheel shimmy. These conditions are present regardless of what freeway I'm driving on… i've played around with a variety of different tire pressures ranging from 34 psi to 40 PSI and while the lower pressures feel a tad softer in the ride, it does not seem to reduce the vibration.

Yesterday I had a friend bring his SR5 into my shop with the goal of swapping wheels and tires from vehicle to vehicle to truly determine if it's my wheels and tires for my vehicle that is causing the vibration. Unfortunately we found out that almost all of his Lugnuts which are aftermarket spline style have been damaged by discount tire and therefore we didn't get to do the wheel swap because I didn't want to risk damaging his wheel lock key and Lugnuts any further and leaving his vehicle undrivable. This whole thing has me really frustrated and not being able to enjoy my new truck very much. It has less than 3000 miles on it. I want to get this vibration figured out so I can install my lift. I don't want to install my lift with the chance that there may actually be something wrong with my truck rather than the tires because of course the dealership will then blame it on the lift.

Anyone else running BFG K02 275s on a KDSS equipped truck and feel that it rides like absolute garbage??

What kind of wheels are you running? I have a 16 TE KDSS with 2.5 inch in the front and 2 inch in the rear lift with KO2 275s and mine rides extremely smooth. No vibration. The ride is a little stiff but I knew that was going to happen with the lift and E rated tires. I'm running 42 psi cold and that seemed to help the mpg. I also have the trd pro wheels. Did any weights fall off?

 

[SATSTRAIL]

I have the factory Trail wheels that came on it. It's a 2016 Trail edition and everything is bone stock other than the tires. It's not a wheel weight that has fallen off. I've personally balanced the tires 3 times on a freshly calibrated Hunter wheel balancer at my dealership. I really would like to drive a similarly equipped truck with the same tires or at least do a temporary wheel/tire swap to figure this out. I want to get my lift installed!

Part of me wonders if perhaps these heavier tires are too much for the stock shocks to dampen and therefore the oscillations may be transmitting through the KDSS?.... If that's the case I wonder if installing my lift may actually be the fix.... I just don't want to loose my "it's still the stock suspension" leverage that I have with the dealer in case it is something other than the tires...

 

[TfourR]

I have the factory Trail wheels that came on it. It's a 2016 Trail edition and everything is bone stock other than the tires. It's not a wheel weight that has fallen off. I've personally balanced the tires 3 times on a freshly calibrated Hunter wheel balancer at my dealership. I really would like to drive a similarly equipped truck with the same tires or at least do a temporary wheel/tire swap to figure this out. I want to get my lift installed!

Part of me wonders if perhaps these heavier tires are too much for the stock shocks to dampen and therefore the oscillations may be transmitting through the KDSS?.... If that's the case I wonder if installing my lift may actually be the fix.... I just don't want to loose my "it's still the stock suspension" leverage that I have with the dealer in case it is something other than the tires...

Now that you've said something I remember having a slight vibration at 60 mph when I had the tires installed with no lift. Lifting it did actually take it away, don't ask me how or why but it did. Honestly if it ever came down to a warranty thing just reinstall your stock suspension if you think the dealership would hassle you. It's not ideal but can be done.