Victim of odometer fraud :(

[nissanh]

Try your local Better Business Bureau (BBB). They will contact the seller and ask to get it settled. If that doesn't work they will advice you to file a claim at your Attorney Generals Office. The filing process is simple and make sure you are genuine and have supporting documents. Most likely the seller will contact you to come to a settlement. If that don't work, you can file at the attorney generals office and they will take legal action against the seller. Seller for sure don't like that route.

 

[Skulking]

Which is exactly what I said. My point (and reading comprehension) has been further "bolstered" by your confirmation ie. 10+ years old vehicles DO NOT REQUIRE A WRITTEN DECLARATION BY SELLER. Therefore, in this instance (post #10) the OP has no recourse through the NHTSA.

All that means is that the seller isn't required to give a written disclosure if they know the odometer is incorrect for any reason which could include a legitimate reason such as a cluster replacement.

Just because the written statement isn't required doesn't mean that they won't be interested in the fraud. It may be more difficult to prove that the seller knew about it, but even that can be determined by going to the sales records and vehicle history to see if there is a point where the mileage jumps backwards and figure out who owned the car at that point.

Fraud is fraud, the 10 year limit for requiring a written statement doesn't mean that this isn't fraud. State motor vehicle departments and the NHTSA do tend to take odometer fraud very seriously.

 

[cb1111]

All that means is that the seller isn't required to give a written disclosure if they know the odometer is incorrect for any reason which could include a legitimate reason such as a cluster replacement.

Just because the written statement isn't required doesn't mean that they won't be interested in the fraud. It may be more difficult to prove that the seller knew about it, but even that can be determined by going to the sales records and vehicle history to see if there is a point where the mileage jumps backwards and figure out who owned the car at that point.

Fraud is fraud, the 10 year limit for requiring a written statement doesn't mean that this isn't fraud. State motor vehicle departments and the NHTSA do tend to take odometer fraud very seriously.

Don't bother, some people just have to be right. It is the times we live in...

 

[Satter]

I’m curious. If you, or a mechanic, hooks a top of the line scan tool up to the OBD-ll port wont the computer tell the scan tool what the actual mileage is or no?

 

[Endlessblockades]

I’m curious. If you, or a mechanic, hooks a top of the line scan tool up to the OBD-ll port wont the computer tell the scan tool what the actual mileage is or no?

It would be great if onboard mileage data was truly read-only, but any data system (that was cost-effective at the time of mfg) can be F'd with.

 

[Dieselchessy]

I bought a beautiful 1995 calypso blue 3000GT with tan leather interior, removable roof panel and only 93,000 miles on the odometer for $1,700. A couple of months later, the darn thing started smoking at stop lights so I decided to trade it in a truck at a local dealership....Dealer said they couldn't take it because the odometer was rolled back from 160,000 miles at least. Not once did it occur to me to go back to the seller I bought it from and try to intimidate them to get my money back. Maybe they knew, maybe they didn't? It was my fault for thinking I was getting a great car at a ridiculous low price. You may be in the opposite situation and paid a premium for something you feel was misrepresented. It's a sad part of life that we all can get taken at some point. Just try and do better next time.
P.S. I fully disclosed the odometer issue and smoking of the 3000GT, and ended up trading it straight across for a trashed out 1987 V8 Firebird.

This post made me think of this quote.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.“

Edmund Burke

 

[ASUMTNEER]

I filled out a form with the TN department of safety and Homeland security. I spoke to a SGT with the TN Highway Patrol last night. He's going to work the case, but told me the punishments for this type of crime are light. It's a class A misdemeanor and carries a $200 fine. He says he'll try to tack on felony larceny because of the value difference in the vehicle, but that's sometimes hard to stick. He says a lot of the time that these are settled between the parties before any court proceedings happen. I'm just hoping to somehow help someone down the line not get into this situation. I know I've learned my lesson. In the end, if nothing comes from it, I've still got a great 4runner that will likely last a good long while anyway. My son will be 16 in 4 years, so maybe he'll take it over then.

 

[mtbtim]

I filled out a form with the TN department of safety and Homeland security. I spoke to a SGT with the TN Highway Patrol last night. He's going to work the case, but told me the punishments for this type of crime are light. It's a class A misdemeanor and carries a $200 fine. He says he'll try to tack on felony larceny because of the value difference in the vehicle, but that's sometimes hard to stick. He says a lot of the time that these are settled between the parties before any court proceedings happen. I'm just hoping to somehow help someone down the line not get into this situation. I know I've learned my lesson. In the end, if nothing comes from it, I've still got a great 4runner that will likely last a good long while anyway. My son will be 16 in 4 years, so maybe he'll take it over then.

I wonder what the max settlement could be in small claims court in Tennessee? You wouldn't even have to get a lawyer. Just simply show Judge Judy the facts of the case yourself which would be simple. The vehicle was advertised with much lower mileage than it actually had. Show the Car Fax proving the fraud that occurred. Then maybe show comparables of what 3rd Gens with the correct mileage are going for and how much more you paid based off the fraudulent mileage listed in the ad. Ask for reimbursement for what you feel the overpayment was. Teach this A-hole a lesson and don't let him off easy. If you don't, this dickhead will probably do it again to someone else.

Think of it this way. Any decent person wouldn't let you get screwed over like this. If his story about the dealership was true, and he was a decent guy, he would try to make it right. The fact that he just gave a lame excuse that he already spent all the money and said nothing about trying to make it right with you tells me this guy is a dirt bag. It's your money and your headache, but if it were me, I would not let this guy off easy.

 

[MagusWyatt]

I wonder what the max settlement could be in small claims court in Tennessee? You wouldn't even have to get a lawyer. Just simply show Judge Judy the facts of the case yourself which would be simple. The vehicle was advertised with much lower mileage than it actually had. Show the Car Fax proving the fraud that occurred. Then maybe show comparables of what 3rd Gens with the correct mileage are going for and how much more you paid based off the fraudulent mileage listed in the ad. Ask for reimbursement for what you feel the overpayment was. Teach this A-hole a lesson and don't let him off easy. If you don't, this dickhead will probably do it again to someone else.

Think of it this way. Any decent person wouldn't let you get screwed over like this. If his story about the dealership was true, and he was a decent guy, he would try to make it right. The fact that he just gave a lame excuse that he already spent all the money and said nothing about trying to make it right with you tells me this guy is a dirt bag. It's your money and your headache, but if it were me, I would not let this guy off easy.

Definitely agree with TIm here. I'm really glad you're doing something, because just taking the loss and not doing anything is just going to teach people that they can keep doing it. Not sure what small claims courts are like over there, but he's right that you could do it without an attorney, and you can even recoup court filing fees and such as part of a settlement. Hopefully the action you've already taken will spur whichever dirt bag is responsible to settle up before you have to put much more time into it.

Did you ever get anywhere with the NHTSA?

We're all in your corner!

 

[Ghostrider]

One question I am sure the investigator will look at. Has the seller sold other vehicles or was this a one time sale. Thinking that whomever rolled it back - it wasn't the first time. Not going to look but pretty sure I could find something on the interwebs on how to do it and pretty sure it takes some sort of specialized connection. Doubt someone will do all this for a single sale but I could be wrong.

 

[RandyBobandy]

The easiest way to avoid this happening to you is to just buy super clapped out vehicles that aren’t worth the effort to mess with the odometer

 

[Devbot]

The easiest way to avoid this happening to you is to just buy super clapped out vehicles that aren’t worth the effort to mess with the odometer

After seeing a shocking number of these posts since I bought my truck, maybe it wasn't such a dumb move buying something with >275k... :thumb:

Anybody notice quite a few of these posts in the past month? This must be at least the 3rd or 4th I've seen about

 

[ASUMTNEER]

Definitely agree with TIm here. I'm really glad you're doing something, because just taking the loss and not doing anything is just going to teach people that they can keep doing it. Not sure what small claims courts are like over there, but he's right that you could do it without an attorney, and you can even recoup court filing fees and such as part of a settlement. Hopefully the action you've already taken will spur whichever dirt bag is responsible to settle up before you have to put much more time into it.

Did you ever get anywhere with the NHTSA?

We're all in your corner!

Thanks for the support. I just filed the claim a couple of days ago, so the investigation is just under way. Nothing yet to report. Depending on what comes of the investigation, I may file a suit against my seller. Luckily I'm not in a financial position where this really hurts my family, we'll be just fine either way, but I'd love to make some sort of difference for someone down the line that it may financially hurt from something like this.

I'll keep this thread updated.

 

[nissanh]

I filled out a form with the TN department of safety and Homeland security. I spoke to a SGT with the TN Highway Patrol last night. He's going to work the case, but told me the punishments for this type of crime are light. It's a class A misdemeanor and carries a $200 fine. He says he'll try to tack on felony larceny because of the value difference in the vehicle, but that's sometimes hard to stick. He says a lot of the time that these are settled between the parties before any court proceedings happen. I'm just hoping to somehow help someone down the line not get into this situation. I know I've learned my lesson. In the end, if nothing comes from it, I've still got a great 4runner that will likely last a good long while anyway. My son will be 16 in 4 years, so maybe he'll take it over then.

Wow... the 4Runner is in very good shape!

 

[Satter]

This thread got me thinking how would I prove the mileage on my T4R was legit if I ever sold it. My service record at Toyota.com only goes back to 2008. And I read a few articles how carfax doesn’t catch everything. I don’t even know if carfax tracks mileage.

 

[Satter]

OP, I may have missed it, but did you take your vehicle to a mechanic before you bought it?

 

[FL_Native]

Im in the same boat, only with a 4th Gen (03). Can’t make a new thread cause I’m new, and don’t want to hijack yours, but I’m going through this right now. Kicking myself in the ass mostly but also pissed at the general nature of scumbags out there.

FWIW, I was able to do some research and tracked down the owner before the guy I bought it from - try just putting the VIN in a google search and go back a few pages....might find something.

Long story short, I was able to get $500 back. When I can make my own thread I’ll go into detail but just know this is a major issue going on and IMO you should use every bit of leverage you have.

 

[96RedRunner]

Odometer fraud been going on since horses were being traded
Ya'll just learned never trust nobody always gona be crooks.

Good luck to those pursuing making things right, it is a hassle.

 

[mtbtim]

This thread got me thinking how would I prove the mileage on my T4R was legit if I ever sold it. My service record at Toyota.com only goes back to 2008. And I read a few articles how carfax doesn’t catch everything. I don’t even know if carfax tracks mileage.

Smog checks happen every couple years, at least they do in California. When they do the smog check, they record the mileage and this will show up on a Car Fax report. Also, the mileage is recorded when a vehicle changes ownership. If you're curious, run a Car Fax on your rig and you'll see the records it shows.

 

[Malcolm99]

It should also be noted that if you get Fuel Gauge TSB performed by Toyota it will reset your Odometer to 0, I had mine done at 200,000Km and they had me sign off on it, talked to another guy that fixed my Climate control and he said he can save the Odometer data when he does the Fuel gauge TSB. But I thought the TSB was for Nov 98-2000 MFG Date so it doesn't apply to the OP, and this TSB should have been a recall, no fuel in remote areas, or running out of fuel at highway speeds is a safety issue.