97BlackAckCL
Elite Member
Thank you for sharing your experience, the real question is.... would you recommend it to others?
Vivid Racing VR Tune 4Runner Results
- Thread starter fugereb
- Start date
Thank you for sharing your experience, the real question is.... would you recommend it to others?
Jebsmith2112
New member
Limits are in place for a reason. You may find this hard to believe, but it's not just to limit your fun. You are not special. Stop thinking that just because you can, you should.
I absolutely recommend the VR Tune based on my experience. No matter how your drive slow or fast; the VR Tune makes the Runner an easier drive.
At some point I will put up some screen shots for the AFR, Timing Advance, TPS, and MF Air Sensor read-only data I can see on my Kenwood with iMaestro OBD2 integration. Comparing stock versus tune. Of course what matters is how it drives, and in my experience much better!
I've posted this in other related threads before, but there's an unconfirmed and uncited rumor that these engines adjust to fuel octane and actually make more power with higher octane fuels (as compared to a normal car, which simply wouldn't). So before I would spend the money, I would need to see dynos and proof of three things.
1. Change in drivability isn't just remapped throttle (less roundabout way of doing what a pedal commander does)
2. Change in power/torque is from a tune, and not just running higher octane fuel
3. A real A to B dyno from multiple vehicles, not some unrealistic cartoon looking thing on the vendor's site
1. Change in drivability isn't just remapped throttle (less roundabout way of doing what a pedal commander does)
2. Change in power/torque is from a tune, and not just running higher octane fuel
3. A real A to B dyno from multiple vehicles, not some unrealistic cartoon looking thing on the vendor's site
Eager to see afr, advance, max knock degrees, stuff like that!
But guys, as a definitive statement, there are all sorts of "counter-intuitive" things about engines and operation. Things such as...
-Engines actually often wearing LESS at full operating temp (190F coolant) than while cruising lower.
-Engines actually wearing LESS when the oil is getting "up there" toward the end of it's 10,000 mile change. This is because of the rate at which some additives added to the oil tend to come out of solution and do their jobs inside the engine. So for instance, one additive might work sooner after oil change as a solvent, to clean the engine, and then slowly fade out of the system as the anti-wear additive takes over and bonds to the engine and piston/surface walls. And if ur constantly over-changing your oil, it's always hitting the internals hard with the initial, strong-biting solvent stuff, and never giving the anti-wear stuff (like ZDDP) time to do its thing.
That's just a simple example. There are a lot of other more complex chemistry things going on, too.
-Engines running at higher rpm, toward peak power and stoichometric, running less rich, and having less fouling-impact on the downstream exhaust and catalytic system.
So all in all, there's really no correlation between rpms and engine durability, unless you're into the redline or running at extreme load all the time. 2,000rpm and highway load (top gear) is probably thus a little worse than 3,000rpm and highway load (top gear), as the effective load at 2,000rpm is worse and knock is more likely as the engine is closer to lugging more often. But either way, the 1GR-FE is "fine" at both operating levels.
So focus on how the tune impacts the AFR, knock, and overall power, not minor RPM differences lol
But guys, as a definitive statement, there are all sorts of "counter-intuitive" things about engines and operation. Things such as...
-Engines actually often wearing LESS at full operating temp (190F coolant) than while cruising lower.
-Engines actually wearing LESS when the oil is getting "up there" toward the end of it's 10,000 mile change. This is because of the rate at which some additives added to the oil tend to come out of solution and do their jobs inside the engine. So for instance, one additive might work sooner after oil change as a solvent, to clean the engine, and then slowly fade out of the system as the anti-wear additive takes over and bonds to the engine and piston/surface walls. And if ur constantly over-changing your oil, it's always hitting the internals hard with the initial, strong-biting solvent stuff, and never giving the anti-wear stuff (like ZDDP) time to do its thing.
That's just a simple example. There are a lot of other more complex chemistry things going on, too.
-Engines running at higher rpm, toward peak power and stoichometric, running less rich, and having less fouling-impact on the downstream exhaust and catalytic system.
So all in all, there's really no correlation between rpms and engine durability, unless you're into the redline or running at extreme load all the time. 2,000rpm and highway load (top gear) is probably thus a little worse than 3,000rpm and highway load (top gear), as the effective load at 2,000rpm is worse and knock is more likely as the engine is closer to lugging more often. But either way, the 1GR-FE is "fine" at both operating levels.
So focus on how the tune impacts the AFR, knock, and overall power, not minor RPM differences lol
From what I understand the latest Tundra engine has an adaptive ECU to take advantage of higher octane however, the 4Runner does not.
If you look at the VR Tune dyno charts on the Tundra you will see that the 4Runner produces a much higher % gain with the VR Tune vs. the Tundra; evidence of such that the Tundra does have an octane adaptive ECU and the 4Runner does not.
Dyno charts on Vivid Racing site for the 4Runner are back to back tests on premium fuel stock vs. VR tune.
Last edited:
Toyota GR engine - Wikipedia
An updated version of this engine features Dual VVT-i, increasing output to 270 hp (201 kW; 274 PS) at 5600 rpm and 278 lb⋅ft (377 N⋅m) at 4400 rpm on 87 octane and 285 hp (213 kW; 289 PS) and 289 lb⋅ft (392 N⋅m) on 91 octane.
Encouraging read however, I ran many consecutive tanks for 92 octane and never noticed anything to write about. As much to say if this was a solution I wouldn't have purchased a Pedal Commander last year.
With the VR Tune, writing about it and sold my Pedal Commander. Anyone else out there have VR Tune results to share?
Except... nowhere is it legal to drive that fast on public roads. I'm fine with going a few over. But yeah it really pisses me off when I see a**holes putting others at risk. But apparently some people think they are special and the rules should not apply to them. And I'm no hipster.
Unfortunately the rule of thumb is that this ISN'T true. A typical vehicle with a fixed engine map isn't able to produce any more power (or operate any differently) on higher octane fuels. Meaning the ECU or perhaps even the physical design of the engine can only advance spark or make other adjustments to maximize power on 87 octane.
Like I said, it's uncited and is therefore not proof of anything. I could have added that line to Wikipedia myself out of the blue, so without citation we have no idea what the original source is. We also have no A:B dynos on higher octane fuels to suggest that it's true. I've put a few tanks of 93 in and though it does seem to make a difference, the placebo effect is very strong!
newchapter
New member
So would you say that overall it increases drivability ?
thennen
New member
The only time I really paid attention to this was on a cross-country trip with my 3rd Gen pulling a small u-haul trailer in 2012. I was more curious about whether straight gasoline would give different mpg versus 10% ethanol. It seemed to return maybe 2 mpg more, but was also more expensive. Probably was higher octane too. Again, I was more curious about the blend difference.
Unfortunately, dude, you don't know what the Hell you are talking about.
ECUs have been adding or pulling timing in response to detected or inferred octane for like 15-20 years, now. What else do you want? It's not like compression will be variable. That technology only came out within the last year, from Infiniti.
So stop running your ignorant mouth. Hell, you don't need experience running hundreds of advanced ECUTEK logs and tuning your own Mazda MZR engine (a 2010 car, from 2006 or earlier design at that) to have proof. Just check out the Toyota manual from the 2006 Tacoma:
From the 2006 Tacoma Owners Manual
"OCTANE RATING
2TR- FE engine - Select Octane Rating 87 or higher.
1GR- FE engine - Select Octane Rating 87 or higher. For improved vehicle performance, use premium unleaded gasoline with an Octane Rating of 91 or higher."
The 1GR-FE pulls less timing from theoretical optimum, the higher octane you use, up to about 93. Or rather, the inferred octane, based on how progressively long it can go without detecting significant knock.
It also adjusts the vvti tables based on the same, such that when you're on 91-93 octane, it broadens the torque curve a bit, so max torque comes in a few hundred rpm sooner and lasts a few hundred rpm longer. There are literally hundreds of tables inside modern ECUs. Nothing "fixed".
These principles are the exact same ones leveraged by tuners like Vivid, who if you couldn't read, actually offer various tuning levels based around the octane you use, too lol.
Btw, to give you an idea of how long ECUs have been "advanced", my 2010 Mazda with the 2006 original engine and ECU design, was still capable of flashing to RaceROM, which let me use the Cruise Control speed switch to toggle between various tunes on the fly, with the rev counter needle changing from 1k, 2k, and 3k on the fly briefly, to indicate whether I was in "bad gas", "race tune", or "data logging" mode.
Last edited:
Your super long, emotional, and kludged together reply was unnecessary, having completely misinterpreted what I said. But thank you for the lesson on engine controls. Have you considered submitting your ideas as a TRB paper?
Last edited:
Hadelson
New member
Why pay the Euro when you can run unrestricted on many sections of the Autobahn?
Unfortunately, you poor, slackjawed and guffawing indigent, if you want to master engine tuning, you'll have to a) suppress the frequent pangs of frustration and desire to quit, and continue on a path toward more than semiliterate reading comprehension, and b) be subjected to voluminous documentation and training materials far in excess of my abhorrent few hundreds of words or a single TRB paper.
Also unfortunately, all the above effort would be - in the opinion of this humble writer - a fools errand. I therefore recommend you continue to go about your way, guffawing at passing butterflies, contributing false information to internet forum threads about how engine controls work and how octane affects them, and wondering why your boogers taste salty today but were altogether sweeter yesterday.
Last edited:
Similar threads
