VLED 2000LM H4 install and review on 2001 T4R

[BrianSD_42]

It looks like a dud to me.

$120 for LED bulbs
- barely noticeable increase in light
- no visual looks improvement

$300 for a high end complete "drop in kit" (no cutting) from TRS.
- huge huge improvement in light output
- huge improvement in looks
- has strong resell value

 

[bubbaleenc]

It looks like a dud to me.

$120 for LED bulbs
- barely noticeable increase in light
- no visual looks improvement

$300 for a high end complete "drop in kit" (no cutting) from TRS.
- huge huge improvement in light output
- huge improvement in looks
- has strong resell value

Thanks for your comment!

I agree that most of the images I have posted don't effectively show the improved light output over halogen - but when you look at the image of my vehicle next to another, you can see the improvement of road coverage and quality over Halogen.

Since looks improvement is a highly subjective POV, I'll just have to go with your opinion. In my own opinion, the 5000 Kelvin LED looks significantly better in the real world than do my old 4000 Kelvin SilverStar bulbs (source). In fact, they are the same color visually as many new vehicles as companies move away from the 6000 Kelvin color.

There is no debating the significant improvement of HID output over current LED technology. The issue is really how well the increased candlepower of drop-in HID actually lights the road ahead. As I noted with the 2000LM drop-ins, the effective candlepower is very likely less than the designed and advertised candlepower due to the design of the light housing and Fresnel reflector in the T4R (Indeed, the models without the clear lens or different Gens will have still different results as well). The same will hold true for HID in a non-linear fashion. That is, a 100% increase of candlepower of HID over LED will result in a less than 100% increase of road illumination. But, granted an increase will still be experienced. And increased illumination is hard to argue against.

As to the resale value, I assume you are speaking of individual market such as you may find here. We T4R nerds (speaking of myself at least) will pay some premium for meaningful improvements - but most buyers would balk at paying the full cost of such improvement. And forget any return of investment at the Stealership. They may actually dock you for it. :mmph: So at best I can assume maybe 1 or 2 hundred bucks increase in value. Since most of our running rigs sell over $4k I think a 2.5% increase is not really meaningful - but others will certainly disagree.

The ultimate question is whether or not the increase of illumination and improved aesthetics (such as perceived) of HID over LED is worth nearly triple the cost? For some, Yes. Others (myself included), not really.

The calculus for me was this: Since I burn through about 3 pair of SilverStars every 2 years at a 2-year cost of $120 plus tax and the 2000LMs cost me (with online discount code) $110 including shipping with an alleged functional life of around 25,000 hours (compared to Sylvania's life of 150 hours, or 450 over 2 years time), I was willing to take a chance for a 2-year breakeven simply on the longevity improvement. Add in the freebies of functional illumination improvement over Halogen and my personal opinion of an improved aesthetic, the 2000LM route is a good deal.

But that's what makes the world go 'round - a million different opinions!

 

[IBallEngineer]

Thanks for your comment!




The ultimate question is whether or not the increase of illumination and improved aesthetics (such as perceived) of HID over LED is worth nearly triple the cost? For some, Yes. Others (myself included), not really.


But that's what makes the world go 'round - a million different opinions!

I like your thinking, I used the same logic as to why I bought a Kindle Fire vs an iPad. I won't get started on why I hate all things Apple. I wanted a reader, not a laptop, I wanted it small not the size of an iPad.

If this works for you, awesome. And by the way those are the best LED headlamps I've seen.

But....


I loooooove my HID's.

:behindsofa:

 

[BrianSD_42]

Glad to help! && thanks for creating this thread.

Just to be clear when I said "complete high end drop in kit" I mean complete PROJECTOR HID kit.

That is, a 100% increase of candlepower of HID over LED will result in a less than 100% increase of road illumination. But, granted an increase will still be experienced. And increased illumination is hard to argue against.

Again, I'm talking about a Projector HID kit which is very different than just HID bulbs.

I do not advocate installing just HID bulbs.

(compared to Sylvania's life of 150 hours, or 450 over 2 years time), I was willing to take a chance for a 2-year breakeven simply on the longevity improvement.

Just wanted to say that for an extra $45 (total $345) you can get the Phillips bulbs which are well known to last 5+ years.

 

[bubbaleenc]

Just to be clear when I said "complete high end drop in kit" I mean complete PROJECTOR HID kit.



Again, I'm talking about a Projector HID kit which is very different than just HID bulbs.

I do not advocate installing just HID bulbs.

I'm totally with you here! HID bulb drop-ins without projectors from every source I've found just do not provide the value they should.

The technical design of the 2000LM is what got my attention since it is the first LED I've yet found that uses Cree high-end LEDs and makes a meaningful attempt to mimic the positioning of factory 9003 bulb filaments. In fact, the design of the 2000LM makes it so that using a projector lamp would likely decrease the on-road output rather than improve it. Projectors seem to perform best when there is a near-720 deg light output like found by HID.

Once I start changing the lamp housing though, I'd be stretching the comparison limits between technologies due to the light physics' mounting differences. (forgive me, my late father was a laser physicist so I couldn't help learning a lot about how light "works" and is perceived by the human eye and various sensors - I'm trying not to get overly technical here, but I will probably over-think things a bit) It would even be a stretch to compare these LEDs in my clear lens lamp housing to the halogens in the scatter lens lamp housing in earlier 3rd Gens.

Point being... I think these drop-in LED provide a new alternative for folks.

• HID with projector upgrade provides the best overall upgrade, but at the most effort and highest overall price.
• SilverStar bulbs are a good step above the garbage Sylvania sells at the lower end - good enough that I really don't see a justification to pay good money for a 3200 Kelvin "XtraVision" bulb or their bargain-basement offering. I see the SilverStar as the basic bulb for the T4R (other opinions are equally valid).
• In the middle is the new generation of LED technology. Much improved output compared to Halogen, potentially improved aesthetics and allegedly greatly improved longevity over SilverStars. The price is triple SilverStar, and 1/3 Projector housing HID. Not bad positioning for a middle choice!

 

[bubbaleenc]

Robust Build

Update:

I took my rig out onto Fort Fisher State Park's beach yesterday for some winter photography and a shakedown of the new bulbs, and can report that there was absolutely no change observed in the intensity, quality or even the aim of the light as observed that night.

Conditions: fully-loaded rig with wife, son, dog, overnight luggage, offroad minor emergency gear and my brother's family's Christmas gifts (Christmas is a monthlong+ process in our home!). Aired down tires to 25psi. Combination of firm washboard (with more bottoming out of suspension than I care to recall... must upgrade my suspension!!!), sudden sand plowing, deep rut crossings (with more bottoming out, much to son's pleasure and wife's and dog's chagrin), soft sand floating and firm sand cruising. Temps in the 40s with moderate wind off the ocean blowing salt onto/into truck.

I honestly didn't think there would be any problem, but figured it would be good to run the upgrade through its paces just the same. Okay... just a good excuse to play on the beach! :lmao:

 

[bubbaleenc]

First Complaint

Okay, I've been looking hard for something to complain about these bulbs so that I don't sound like a shill for VLED... and I've found something.

The other night in the snowfall and rain mix (no accumulation on roads, but heavy precip) I noticed that the illumination of the road surface was really poor. This did not apply to illumination / reflection of signs or reflectors - just on roads that are not upgraded with reflective paint or physical reflectors. This was annoying without the glare of other vehicles' headlights and concerning with the glare.

After looking at the way light of varying colors and intensities display when illuminating different surfaces I realized that this may be an inherent observation of sub-HID lumen lights greater than 4500 Kelvin in color. HID-level lumens effectively "paint" the road surface with light, so the reflectivity and the darkness of that road surface matters less than it does for lower lumen illumination. Yellower colors help mitigate this by requiring fewer lumens to "paint" the road surface with the color.

Basically, the darker the road surface is, the more lumens are required to visualize that surface. The same holds true for the relationship to reflectivity of surface caused by water. In a controlled environment, find an old incandescent flashlight, a halogen flashlight and an LED flashlight of similar quality (and ideally similar number of lumens if that can be measured at your home - my LED is about 5500Kelvin) and some different colored construction paper. What you'll find is something like this attachment (paper color on top) where "--" is poorest subjective reflectivity and "++" is best subjective reflectivity:

 

[bubbaleenc]

Now I will say this: subjective observation of reflection quality is at best hit-or-miss. Like I noted above, I had no problem seeing signs and light-colored surfaces regardless of the rain. Just some a noticeable difference in the way I perceived the light painting the road surface.

At no time did I feel that it was hazardous, but it certainly was striking. It actually reminded me of driving in the rain in my first car that had square halogen sealed beams. That's a big change once you get used to driving with these on dry pavement.

One other thing: my yellow fog lights that usually light up surfaces nicely were also seemingly dim that night. I can't help but wonder if I was experiencing just an odd set of conditions that merged to create my observation.

By no means do I feel like packing these up and sending them back to VLED for an exchange for taillights or refund. If that gives you any indication of how not-worried I am about this experience. Just wanted to give a fuller picture of my experience!

 

[bubbaleenc]

Check out Tank 7's Build page, post #11 for some more insights.

Much Thanks to @Tank 7 for catching the fact that the foglight mod is necessary in order for the VLED 2000LM to work properly with the light switching stalk.

 

[bubbaleenc]

One thing I would worry about is snow/ice melt off. I have some covers on the wifes and if I dont remember to take them off on snowy days I get in trouble...lol

Thanks for the review! I have been looking to get LED's for the OEM fog lights. Still undecided.

Quick update on this concern:

After driving through several snow, freezing rain and sleet events I have not noticed any difference of accumulation on my headlamp lenses. This includes driving through the mountains of VA and in the heavy snow the east coast had last week.

I think the slope of the lens and the aerodynamics (such as they are!) are enough to keep accumulation to a minimum in all but the worst scenarios.

 

[rayjay]

Thanks for the update. I'm still undecided on what I will do. I had some catching up to do on you thread as well. Still appreciate your time on all this info.

 

[bubbaleenc]

2000LM no longer available...

Hi folks - sorry to revive an old thread here. I see that VLEDS is no longer publicly offering the H4 2000LM as of this writing. I'm not certain when this happened, but I see that there is now a 3000LM. To keep things tidy I'll update my 2000LM in the next post...

 

[bubbaleenc]

2000LM 3-month update

Okay, a quick update: good and disappointing.

First the good (and it is quite good): These bulbs have been used in temperatures ranging from single digits Fahrenheit to mid 90s F with no apparent difference in illumination. The quality of light in accumulated snow last winter turned out to be amazing. On long, dark stretches of I-85 through Southern VA the lights did an excellent job consistently on several trips; on street light illuminated roads they did very well. I have not had a single flash from oncoming drivers and no pull-overs from police (as always, knock wood!) on these bulbs. From these points, I'd say these are the best bulbs I've ever had.

Sadly I'm encountering a malfunction on one bulb now. First, the bulb would sometimes not illuminate as a low-beam (only one LED disc) after using it on high-beam (both LED discs), either for a quick flash-to-pass burst or after an extended use on high. It was an easy problem to overcome - I simply turned off the lights a quick moment and turned them back on again and the bulb in question operated normally again. This was a highly intermittent problem (only happened 4-5 times) that had no meaningful impact on the usability of the bulb. But now that same bulb is flickering on low-beam. The flicker ranges from full-illumination of low beam LED disc to partial-illumination of low beam disc in about 1/3 second frequency. The high beam LED disc does not seem to be affected. After flickering for about 30 seconds (only happens when lights first are turned on), the bulb settles in on about 1/2-2/3 illumination.

This looks to be a CREE LED issue and not a ballast or design problem on VLEDS side. I really like these bulbs but will have to replace at least that one malfunctioning bulb before inspection. I doubt it will cause me any issue on-road until replacement since its partial illumination is a) still better than basic halogen bulbs and b) is compensated for by the good bulb and my foglights.

VLEDS has an awesome reputation for customer service, so I'm not worried about this getting handled well by them. I'll repost later (and possibly a new thread entirely if I end up with a different iteration of the bulb) to update this.

 

[bubbaleenc]

Vleds **rocks**

This is more of a service update than anything. I contacted VLEDS via their online form to clarify my options since they are not publicly offering the CREE CXA-based bulbs now in H4. They responded very quickly (within hours) and asked me to double-check the problem source by swapping the control box between the bulbs. That is a highly logical request (indeed, I had tried that as soon as I experienced issues) that I happily repeated to ensure an accurate response - I mean, hey, it took a whopping 2 minutes out of my day!

I responded with my findings that the issue was isolated to the LED disc even when control boxes were swapped. Not 2 hours later I had an email thanking me for the update followed by an email confirming a no-charge order of a new CXA-based bulb!

In all, it took under 15 minutes of my time (combined) to contact VLEDS and provide follow-up to obtain a warranty replacement.

Now that is what I call service! I'll be doing more business with VLEDS in the future - I hope y'all do too!

 

[Nelsonmd]

So maybe a silly question, but is that a fan on the back of the bulb? If so, that fan is not going to last very long in an external application. It looks like a typical computer chip fan, not very robust... I sure hope it isn't waha it looks like.

 

[bubbaleenc]

So maybe a silly question, but is that a fan on the back of the bulb? If so, that fan is not going to last very long in an external application. It looks like a typical computer chip fan, not very robust... I sure hope it isn't waha it looks like.

Not a silly question at all! The fan does indeed seem like a small computer cooling fan. However it is stated to be able to withstand 25,000 hours of operation. Knowing VLEDS, I would be surprised if this was just a cheap fan. It is doing well as far as I can tell so far. Given that I have run it through various environmental paces including several carwashes I'm very content that this fan will continue to work just fine. Hope this helps!

 

[bubbaleenc]

New Bulb Received and Installed

That was quick! Today I got the replacement bulb VLEDS shipped out to me. I installed it straight away and it does not strobe and then run half-power like the old one began to do.

Interestingly, this bulb (same control box as before) lights even more quickly than the other bulb (the one that wasn't malfunctioning) and doesn't blink when going back and forth from high and low beam like the other one does. I don't know if this will have any effect on durability in any way, but I'll be sure to pass it along one way or another.

From initial appearances, the color and intensity of both lights (new bulb and original non-malfunctioning bulb) look to be about the same. I'm not using any equipment more technical than my eye, so there may well be differences that I'm not seeing. If they become obvious (which I seriously doubt), I'll pass it along.

All in all, I'm still quite happy with these bulbs and ecstatic about VLEDS.

 

[geohil]

Have you noticed any feedback/static in your stereo since installing the VLED's? I've heard the LED drivers cause noise in the electrical system - but those were mostly from eBay LED knock-off users.

 

[bubbaleenc]

Have you noticed any feedback/static in your stereo since installing the VLED's? I've heard the LED drivers cause noise in the electrical system - but those were mostly from eBay LED knock-off users.

I've read those concerns for some LED drivers and HID ballasts. I've had no issues whatsoever in mine in AM or FM factory system and no interference in cheap aftermarket Bluetooth receiver (which I suspect would be ultra sensitive to EM issues)

 

[geohil]

Thanks for the great write-up and answer bubba. I see the new 3000LM version is up to $200 - but I'm thinking I'll still pull the trigger. After your customer service praise I'd rather give my money to them then any ebay unknown.